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Old 2013-05-30, 19:00   Link #581
Joyce_Steele
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Tohru Honda is an interesting heroine in a reverse harem show and in fact she's the reason why I watched Fruits Basket in first place but sadly she was overshadowed Haruhi Fujioka from Ouran, especially by men.
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Old 2013-05-30, 19:32   Link #582
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
And really, it's no different than most male leads in harem shows. So why would you expect female leads in reverse harem shows to be any better?

The true star of the harem shows (including reverse harems) are typically the harem members, not the character they revolve around.
Yeah, I'd say this is the real heart of it. No matter how smart/talented/able the protagonist of a harem series is, they have to prevented from pursuing a given romance for as long as possible. That will either be due to inner factors (i.e. the person is clueless when it comes to affairs of the heart), or outside factors (i.e. they're cursed and the story keeps messing up all their chances). The essence of the fantasy is the protagonist having so many options, and less what happens when they choose. If the protagonist was smart, able, and decisive, they'd either a) make a choice already, or b) take advantage of the situation in a way that some may find less than, shall we say, "upstanding".
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Old 2013-05-30, 22:32   Link #583
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That actually makes sense although Makoto from School Days subverts the cliche with disastrous results.
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Old 2013-05-30, 23:18   Link #584
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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
That actually makes sense although Makoto from School Days subverts the cliche with disastrous results.
Right, and that's actually the whole point of the show. It asks the question "what would happen if a harem protagonist actually took advantage of the situation they were in?" and gives a rather pessimistic, cynical answer.

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Old 2013-05-31, 00:36   Link #585
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Right, and that's actually the whole point of the show. It asks the question "what would happen if a harem protagonist actually took advantage of the situation they were in?" and gives a rather pessimistic, cynical answer.

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Last edited by relentlessflame; 2013-05-31 at 13:01. Reason: added spoiler tags
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Old 2013-05-31, 01:10   Link #586
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Originally Posted by GDiddy View Post
I know it's supposed to be because she's supposed to be relatable to the audience(women) but how come we can't have a smart female MC when it comes to otome/male harem type of series? I mean, Haruka is quite intelligent enough that she can compose pop songs in UtaPri, but she basically looks stoned whenever one of the Starfish confesses their feelings to her. I liked Chizuru in Hakuoki, but all she does is basically serve as fodder for rescue mostly(though she did spy for the Shisengumi). And the chick in Amnesia is as smart as a box of cathair.


I'm sure most women want to see a buttkicking, smart woman who also gets any man she wants. Saiunkuoku is the only series like this where the female MC was as smart and terrific as the males were....
I really like Himeno from Pretear. She's a little ditzy but not overly so, has plenty of personality, with strengths and faults. The series very much focuses on her instead of her reverse harem and the problems she has are actually somewhat relatable to the audience like "struggling to find a place in a world that doesn't seem to particularly appreciate you" or "can't fit in no matter how hard you try". She acts and feels like a real teenaged girl. Blank slate/pushover this girl is not.

And can she kick your ass?



YOU BETCHA.
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Old 2013-05-31, 13:12   Link #587
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Old 2013-05-31, 14:48   Link #588
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Isn't School Days better known as NICE BOAT?
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Old 2013-05-31, 17:57   Link #589
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Isn't School Days better known as NICE BOAT?
The one and only.

I haven't even seen a second of the show yet I know this.
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Old 2013-05-31, 18:53   Link #590
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I remembered school days for the theme song "悲しみの向こうへ" that was played for the bad ends
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Old 2013-05-31, 21:29   Link #591
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The one and only.

I haven't even seen a second of the show yet I know this.
The only scene I ever watch in the series.... thanks Youtube....
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Old 2013-05-31, 22:40   Link #592
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The one and only.

I haven't even seen a second of the show yet I know this.
To be fair, there is nothing to be lost from not knowing about it. Probably a net gain.
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Old 2013-06-03, 15:21   Link #593
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To be fair, there is nothing to be lost from not knowing about it. Probably a net gain.
Amazingly I saw School Days my last year of middle school. Legitimate nightmares were had for reasons.

You know, as strange as it may sound, I feel like anime has become more willing to put characters in clear relationships. It used to be that characters had these long growths, and that you'd be lucky to see characters enter into any kind of obvious romantic relationship until the very end. Now it feels like that's throw in your face in a way. Either it's a big part of the story, or it's made to happen sooner rather than later.

I enjoy that steady growth of friendship to a romantic relationship in the characters' off time, when they're not busy killing things or doing whatever it is they do for work. Maybe that's just because I'm older now...

In a way it seems almost cliche. Two characters have romantic potential. They must date! THEY MUST DATE NOW! Perhaps it's just a general complaint though?
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Old 2013-06-03, 21:48   Link #594
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Originally Posted by Traece View Post
Amazingly I saw School Days my last year of middle school. Legitimate nightmares were had for reasons.

You know, as strange as it may sound, I feel like anime has become more willing to put characters in clear relationships. It used to be that characters had these long growths, and that you'd be lucky to see characters enter into any kind of obvious romantic relationship until the very end. Now it feels like that's throw in your face in a way. Either it's a big part of the story, or it's made to happen sooner rather than later.

I enjoy that steady growth of friendship to a romantic relationship in the characters' off time, when they're not busy killing things or doing whatever it is they do for work. Maybe that's just because I'm older now...

In a way it seems almost cliche. Two characters have romantic potential. They must date! THEY MUST DATE NOW! Perhaps it's just a general complaint though?

If I go back and rewatch anime from the 90s....it actually seems that characters get FAR more development nowadays than they did back then....and same goes for romance as well. Like one example with Rurouni Kenshin....yeah, he and Kaoru have a couple moments of chemistry and interaction....and then by episode 08 it's announced they're in love.
....................
I was like "...............damn, that was fast." o_O

Things seemed to improve once 2000 hit.
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Old 2013-06-03, 21:57   Link #595
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And besides, do they REALLY have to date? Just because a couple has great romantic potential doesn't mean they must date the first time they see each other.

Even real life couples don't do that.
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Old 2013-06-04, 02:44   Link #596
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Well that's because dating would equal choosing a girlfriend/end girl and that would mean the end of the series

(Ack, i just ate my own words since page ago i was ranting the same thing)
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Old 2013-06-04, 07:07   Link #597
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Well that's because dating would equal choosing a girlfriend/end girl and that would mean the end of the series
I know in practice this happens a lot but I don't see why that is,a relationship between a couple could make a good subject matter for an anime,and a few have done it,hell if the show is long running I don't see why we couldn't see a break up and have a new girl come in afterwards.

I know a manga that has has an "end couple" but they only meet in the last arc, the previous arcs are about the love interests both members of the couple had before they met.I found it to be an interesting approach.
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Old 2013-06-05, 10:45   Link #598
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I know in practice this happens a lot but I don't see why that is,a relationship between a couple could make a good subject matter for an anime,and a few have done it,hell if the show is long running I don't see why we couldn't see a break up and have a new girl come in afterwards.

I know a manga that has has an "end couple" but they only meet in the last arc, the previous arcs are about the love interests both members of the couple had before they met.I found it to be an interesting approach.
I find the modern tack of having shows culminating in the start of a relationship so very limiting. It excludes so very many potential stories and themes. I've found that, as a result, shounen romances aren't worth watching for the romance portion unless there's some novelty involved.
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Old 2013-06-09, 16:36   Link #599
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This one is probably more like a stereotype than a cliche but I hate to see women are often depicted as 'porn-haters'. They often beat their guys(husband or boyfriend) for discovering their xxx-stash. Not just in anime but also in other popular media as well. I really hated it because it not based on fact or reality. Yes women do hate porn but they only hate men's porn. What about their porn? How about some xxx-rated novels you can see in local bookstores and libraries. These "novels" are easier to get than men's porn(DVDs, magazines) because there's no age restrictions to it. The book store clerk and librarian won't ask for your ID when buying/borrowing them.

The only reason I hate this 'cliche' is its double-standard. I've seen too many women throwing away and even burned their man's xxx-stash, beat him up for it but I never saw a man burning his woman's xxx-novels.
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Old 2013-06-09, 18:32   Link #600
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This one is probably more like a stereotype than a cliche but I hate to see women are often depicted as 'porn-haters'. They often beat their guys(husband or boyfriend) for discovering their xxx-stash. Not just in anime but also in other popular media as well. I really hated it because it not based on fact or reality. Yes women do hate porn but they only hate men's porn. What about their porn? How about some xxx-rated novels you can see in local bookstores and libraries. These "novels" are easier to get than men's porn(DVDs, magazines) because there's no age restrictions to it. The book store clerk and librarian won't ask for your ID when buying/borrowing them.

The only reason I hate this 'cliche' is its double-standard. I've seen too many women throwing away and even burned their man's xxx-stash, beat him up for it but I never saw a man burning his woman's xxx-novels.
Yes it does really not seem realistic... I was actually quite surprised when I realized how many women read "50 shades of grey".


And honestly, "double standards" and "absolutely unrealistic depictions of women" are the gravest "sins" of anime and manga
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