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Old 2011-02-10, 00:10   Link #81
Excelion
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That fight made me felt like I was watching an episode of Bleachball Z...but I thoroughly enjoyed it
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Old 2011-02-10, 00:22   Link #82
monir
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
Good point. But one thing that is never really explained or confirmed (as far as I can recall) is whether coming into contact with the blade only stops illusions for as long as contact is made, or if touching the blade makes you permanently immune to it's affects forever. IMO, I don't think Gin explained that part very clearly. And the fact that he felt the need to keep his hand on the blade as he made his attack and even long after the fact only adds to the confusion.

Still, if Ichigo really has become permanently immune to hypnosis, you'd think Aizen might want to consider plan B--a.k.a operation Bankai.

Here's a fun fact that some might've forgotten (including Aizen): going Bankai can make ones power increase 5-10 times.
I hate to give Kubo any credits... I really do... it really pains me to no end..... but..... I think you are giving him too much credit.

Silliness aside, doesn't bankai would be a bit more ineffective at this stage? The way these two have evolved, they have already gone past the bankai level of prowess. If we go by the power evolution of Ichigo, it went something like the following:

1. Spirits with reiatsu
2. Shinigami stage
3. Shikai
4. Bankai
5. Hollow Mask - stage one [unstable]
6. Vaizard - [mastering one's hollow mask for a limited duration of usage]
7. Arrancar class such as Ulquiorra who has reached a stage two evolution
8. Hollow Mask - stage two [unstable]
9. Primera class that are supposed to be grand daddy of all Espada (what a let down! )
10. Aizen-sama with wings (after drinking a lot of Red Bull that give wings) - stage one
11. Aizen-sama with more wings - stage two
12. Ichigo - the ultimate hax0r (I hope I got my l33t right...)

So considering bankai is at #4 of this list, I wonder if he will be even able to bring it out. Bankai's advantage is the fact the user becomes faster, more powerful, and unleashes the full potential of an already known technique used at the shikai level. Aizen is already so much more powerful, so why would he want to downgrade even if he could. Probably that's what Kubo is driving at?

I know... it truly pains me a lot that I'm giving Kubo so much credit. I'll stop before I incur anymore self-inflicting damages on myself by giving Kubo any more credit.
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Old 2011-02-10, 00:52   Link #83
sayde
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I lol'd. It's amusing to think that both you and I are giving Kubo too much credit.

That said, it would appear we just have two different ideas of how Bankai is used in the grand scheme of all this. Whereas you seem to have placed all of these different transformations and power-ups in one long scale and assumed the old power-ups get outdated, irrelevant, and phased out by the strength of the new power-ups, I look at some of the power ups as tools that can be compiled on top of one another for an even greater effect.

For example, notice how Ichigo uses Bankai at the same time as all the other power-ups he's gained since then. That's because there's really no reason for him not to use Bankai. It's an extra boost of strength he can use on top of his hollow mask and whatever else he gets to augment his power. Even now, Ichigo's resorting to Bankai. So the power a Bankai grants never really gets over shadowed IMO. If Bankai can increase one's power by 5 to 10 times, then it doesn't matter if the character in question comes in contact with another power up that boosts his strength even more than that. Bankai can still be used to increase his strength 5-10x on top of whatever else the character has at his disposal. So for example, if this entire sequence of Hougyoku induced power ups has increased Aizen's base strength by 100 times, he can still use Bankai to become 500-1000 times more powerful than his base strength! (Obviously this is just an exaggerated example to drive home the point.)

Besides, the whole point of having hollow and shinigami capabilities is so that they can use powers from both sources. It makes no sense for Aizen to abandon his main sources of power as a shinigami if he's to totally rely on the hollow half of his power from now on. Otherwise he might as well wish to be turned into a hollow. That's the big mistake Tousen made IMO.

And if it's any consolation to you, I don't feel like you're inflicting any damage to yourself by giving Kubo credit. Because if you are, then that by default means I am too. And what a morbid thought that would be.

Last edited by sayde; 2011-02-10 at 01:08.
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Old 2011-02-10, 01:18   Link #84
monir
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I guess you have a point. Combination of powers aren't too far fetched. I should also point out, however, that we haven't seen bankai in effect whenever Ichigo went up a level. For example, when Ichigo mastered his Vaizard, he was training with his sword that already reached a bankai level. It didn't appear he was any better at it than the others around with the Vaizard ability in the beginning. He just appeared to have mastered the role of being a Vaizard and his sword in the Bankai stage appeared moot. Same thing when he fought Ulqui once he reached that unstable 2nd version of Hollow. His sword was once again already in a bankai stage. There was no combination there either, but I guess the circumstances were a little bit different.

I suppose what you are pointing out is the fact Aizen's sword is still in shikai, so he should be able to bring out his Bankai that would give him that extra boost in power. The only thing to keep in mind here that we still don't know if it will be enough to even come close to the hax0r level Ichigo has reached. Do we even know how strong Ichigo is as of right now? Suppose that Ichigo's power level is 1x10^7. Aizen is 1x10^2. Aizen brings out his bankai and he is now 5 times stronger, as in he is 1x10^3. Aizen is still no where closer to Ichigo.

Aizen's affliction really is the fact how he still doesn't seem to realize it's Ichigo who has found a way to ascend beyond the realm of Shinigami-hollow stage, not him. It's something similar to how Aizen thought it was his swing that was creating the crumbling of the surrounding mountains. So even if bankai is combined to draw 5 times the strength, Ichigo still might be way stronger than Aizen here. Aizen just has yet to realize that.... I suppose that's what Kubo might be driving at here?

Darn it... I've done it again. No... Kubo is bad. Bad Kubo! Bad!
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Old 2011-02-10, 01:28   Link #85
sayde
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Monir, you've made a lot good points. And honestly, you could be the one to be perfectly correct on the issue for all I know. Either way, I do know you've blown my mind and have left little to no room for debate here. lol
Because in the end, you're absolutely correct. Even with a supposed exponential increase in power from Aizen's Bankai, it's definitely possible (and even quite likely) that it wouldn't make the slightest bit of difference when confronted against the hax0r level Ichigo has reached as you so elegantly put.

Case in point, if Kubo wants to get this over with, then Aizen's S.O.L. No matter what. And right now, things are certainty looking that way. Good talk monir.

Last edited by sayde; 2011-02-10 at 01:40.
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Old 2011-02-10, 01:33   Link #86
Langus
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Aizen said in the last ep that he has transcended the realm of shinigami and hollow. I suppose that means that a bankai is pointless? He has no need for it because his power now far exceeds what it ever could have been had he used it. Just how I took it tho. Could definitely be wrong about that.
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Old 2011-02-10, 01:37   Link #87
monir
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Originally Posted by Langus View Post
Aizen said in the last ep that he has transcended the realm of shinigami and hollow. I suppose that means that a bankai is pointless? He has no need for it because his power now far exceeds what it ever could have been had he used it. Just how I took it tho. Could definitely be wrong about that.
I personally think it is Ichigo who has reached the true stage of what it means to be transcending the realm of shinigami and hollow. Aizen just went up a stage and no where near reaching that hax level. He probably just doesn't realize it yet, just like how he didn't realize it wasn't his swing crumbling the mountain around him.
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Old 2011-02-10, 02:35   Link #88
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hence why the hogyoku thought it would be really funny to make the guy look like a butterfly. he'll be powerful enough and nobody will be able to touch him. hell, why didn't i give him a head dong too? nobody can touch u... oh here comes ichigo...
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Old 2011-02-10, 06:54   Link #89
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Damn, Ichigo just went full emo. You should never go full emo.

HA!
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Old 2011-02-10, 07:27   Link #90
Langus
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Originally Posted by monir View Post
I personally think it is Ichigo who has reached the true stage of what it means to be transcending the realm of shinigami and hollow. Aizen just went up a stage and no where near reaching that hax level. He probably just doesn't realize it yet, just like how he didn't realize it wasn't his swing crumbling the mountain around him.
Couldn't agree more
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Old 2011-02-10, 07:29   Link #91
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Quote:
So what was taken from Matsumoto?, some part of the Hougyoku?...
Her dignity, that's for sure :P

Also, @ Sayde and Monir, it's h4x0r, with a 4
Quote:
Aizen's affliction really is the fact how he still doesn't seem to realize it's Ichigo who has found a way to ascend beyond the realm of Shinigami-hollow stage, not him. It's something similar to how Aizen thought it was his swing that was creating the crumbling of the surrounding mountains. So even if bankai is combined to draw 5 times the strength, Ichigo still might be way stronger than Aizen here. Aizen just has yet to realize that....
To be fair, Aizen regenerated after being blasted a big new hole, stuff stops existing if it gets too near to him, and everyone bowed in front of butterflAizen. Going from that, to a guy who face-stomped him, can be hard to comprehend. He was already feeling awesome enough to let Gin assassinate him, so Ichigo coming out of nowhere was quite the shock.
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Old 2011-02-10, 12:51   Link #92
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Originally Posted by Excelion View Post
That fight made me felt like I was watching an episode of Bleachball Z...but I thoroughly enjoyed it
It's what the fans obviously enjoy the most about the show.
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Old 2011-02-10, 13:03   Link #93
Fran~
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
I personally think it is Ichigo who has reached the true stage of what it means to be transcending the realm of shinigami and hollow. Aizen just went up a stage and no where near reaching that hax level. He probably just doesn't realize it yet, just like how he didn't realize it wasn't his swing crumbling the mountain around him.
If you don't read the manga, is quite a nice thought. If you read the manga... it's just wishful thinking. Don't forget that Kubo is the biggest troll.

I wouldn't post any thought about this, i would wait to see the end first.
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Old 2011-02-10, 15:09   Link #94
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Do you guys know what is the title of the song played at around 13:48 (when Ichigo drag Aizen to other part of the town) ? Thanks.
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Old 2011-02-10, 16:19   Link #95
Tenza-Zangetsu
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1. Ichigo's bankai swastika has doubled in size
2. Epic Facepalm
4. Hado 90! Kurohitsugi ( or big black wall of glass to ichigo)
5. Epic Cliffhanger
6. Aizen mumbling for half the episode
7. Did you notice i skipped 3?

1 question....
How do hollow's move! they have a fucking hole through their spines (same applies to Aizen)
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Old 2011-02-10, 16:41   Link #96
Fran~
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Originally Posted by Tenza-Zangetsu View Post
1 question....
How do hollow's move! they have a fucking hole through their spines (same applies to Aizen)
If the lasers from Star Wars are visible, why these guys shouldn't move?
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Old 2011-02-10, 17:35   Link #97
Mitsuomi1971
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Aizens and Ichigos new zanpakuto joinings look like Bakkoutou. Oh Amagai, why did you have to kill yourself?

It is a scientific thing that anime uses alot, hybrids are stronger than either the mother or the father. Though this is not always true, sometimes it is. It can be seen mostly with plants. That is about the best way I can conceive of Ichigo's potential.

I wonder though, I have been noticing the abilities of the humans back in Karakura town and I am starting to wonder if they are not the next Gotei 13 in some distant future.

Nice episode, I guess...I was hoping for more though.
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Old 2011-02-10, 17:46   Link #98
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Aizen's wings dissapoint me. I expected them to be rainbow colored.
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Old 2011-02-10, 19:21   Link #99
Chiisai Kuma
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And we heard a new rock version of Number One
remix made for bleach movie 4. they do that for every bleach movie
and yes this ep was
the music was totally epic. *round of applause for Shirou Sagisu*
the entire ep and everything about it was epic win. this is one of those iconic moments that will have its own spical place in bleach fans heart's like the rescuing of rukia at the last moment.
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Old 2011-02-10, 19:42   Link #100
Fran~
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You must be joking... Rukia's rescue was indeed epic... but this episode is meh...
How can you compare Ichigo's Dynamic Entry plus Captains breaking rules in front of their Commander... and a very clever dialogue, full of epic lines combined with funny moments?...

It's unfair.

This episode is just a ripped off Dragonball episode.
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