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Old 2011-02-16, 01:03   Link #181
Slayerx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kagato3 View Post
Well Ishida isn't a real threat to the balance nor is he doing what was the final straw that caused the quincy Genicide. At the end the Qunicies had stopped targeting just hollows and were targeting all spirits including earthbound souls, plusses, and most likely Shinigami as well, even Ishida admitted that the Quincies were in the wrong. Remember there were thousands of quincies and Ishida has been refered to as an incomptent Quincy so what he has done is pretty much nothing. SS did have good cause to wipe the Shinigami out and it wasn't like they didn't try to talk first.
Wait where was it stated that the quincies targeted anything other than hollows?
As i recall they were only targeting hollows, but that in and of itself was a problem and the major crux of the issue. When a hollow is slain with a zanpactou it is purified and its spirit stays in the whole cycle that exists between earth and SS; but when they are killed by the quincies they are destroyed completely and thus it upsets the delicate balance.

Frankly i've found it to be one of Kubo less well thought out ideas. Namely given the UNIVERSAL damage SS should have a strict no tolerance policy and should not allow ANY killing of hollows by anything other than a zanpactou; not even a single hollow slaying should be tolerated. Also fullbringers and humans with powers like orihime should also be forbidden from killing; not just the quincies. Furthermore, this says nothing about other methods shinigami can kill hollows, such as using kido... if a zanpactou is the only way to purify a hollow then shouldn't killing them with something like kido also be forbidden? And one other thing that's not really made clear is what happens to those souls eaten by hollows... do the souls eaten by hollows get purified along with the hollow and return to SS aswell or are they consumed completely and thus forever lost? if they are consumed completely then that might help explain their tolerance for other methods of killing since hollows eating souls disrupts the balance and so killing them is more important, but if the souls return to the cycle then its actually better to allow a hollow to eat a soul and kill it properly later rather than destroy it; in the long run its less universal damage
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Last edited by Slayerx; 2011-02-16 at 01:33.
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Old 2011-02-16, 01:27   Link #182
Wiggy Fuzz
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i think after all that's happened, what with aizen and all, a little imbalance suddenly sounds like not such a bad thing.
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Old 2011-02-16, 04:17   Link #183
ronin myael
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aizen will be back i think. there's no clear villain in this new arc yet so it might be aizen still. maybe kubo hasn't gotten enough of his charms yet.
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Old 2011-02-16, 04:23   Link #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Frankly i've found it to be one of Kubo less well thought out ideas. Namely given the UNIVERSAL damage SS should have a strict no tolerance policy and should not allow ANY killing of hollows by anything other than a zanpactou; not even a single hollow slaying should be tolerated. Also fullbringers and humans with powers like orihime should also be forbidden from killing; not just the quincies. Furthermore, this says nothing about other methods shinigami can kill hollows, such as using kido... if a zanpactou is the only way to purify a hollow then shouldn't killing them with something like kido also be forbidden? And one other thing that's not really made clear is what happens to those souls eaten by hollows... do the souls eaten by hollows get purified along with the hollow and return to SS aswell or are they consumed completely and thus forever lost? if they are consumed completely then that might help explain their tolerance for other methods of killing since hollows eating souls disrupts the balance and so killing them is more important, but if the souls return to the cycle then its actually better to allow a hollow to eat a soul and kill it properly later rather than destroy it; in the long run its less universal damage
Well, "supposed" that a shinigami killing a hollow through any means is the same as purifing it because, i don't know, his kidos come from his sword and thus count the same?

The soul thing is what never made sense as we are never told if new souls are manifactured somewhere or it is a steady number going around at all times. If they can be manifactured (and Kon and the rest of the plushies are actually proof of that) then what is the point helping them reincarnate? If again souls can't be created and if destroyed they are gone forever, then the number of humans born should slowly decrease than increase.

With all the hollows killing people since the dawn of time, it is rather hard to think they are destroying the souls they eat. They more like make a collection of them until they eventually turn to Menos Grande. So killing a Hollow supposed releases all the souls.

And that is again a thing Kubo forgot. Killing a top 3 Espada over SS would mean that a mob of hundreds of thousands would instantly appear in SS. And yet we don't see that. All we see is them going poof.

Remember Orihime's brother showing as human when he was defeated as a hollow? Remember the gates of hell opening and a sword coming out to stab that mass killer? Those were good times. Any defeat of a hollow had an after effect; we were seeing the result. As soon as Ishida appeared, frakk that; just make them all go poof. And if Ishida is excused for killing the souls, then shouldn't we at least see phantoms of people screaming before disappearing? (disturbing imagery, lol). When Ichigo killed Ulqiorra, shouldn't we see the souls he ate all this time being released?

Kubo took that wonderful feeling away ... as he did with everything else a couple of times after he showed them. But Ichigo's special attack? Hell, he kept using it again and again and again, in the exast similar way that offered nothing new.
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Old 2011-02-16, 04:37   Link #185
Von Himmel
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>Serious discussion in my bleach

...what ?

Quote:
aizen will be back i think. there's no clear villain in this new arc yet so it might be aizen still. maybe kubo hasn't gotten enough of his charms yet.
Oh I'm sure he'll be back in some way, but not this fast after his supposed 'defeat'

Quote:
Remember Orihime's brother showing as human when he was defeated as a hollow? Remember the gates of hell opening and a sword coming out to stab that mass killer? Those were good times. Any defeat of a hollow had an after effect; we were seeing the result. As soon as Ishida appeared, frakk that; just make them all go poof. And if Ishida is excused for killing the souls, then shouldn't we at least see phantoms of people screaming before disappearing? (disturbing imagery, lol). When Ichigo killed Ulqiorra, shouldn't we see the souls he ate all this time being released?
Glad that someone mentioned about that If Kubo is smart, he might use it (the reasons why there is a difference about it) for his future plot doubt it'll happen though.
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Old 2011-02-16, 04:56   Link #186
Wiggy Fuzz
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imagine how awesome it would be, being a part of ulquiorra... i'd be his middle finger, just for the benefit of giving the finger to other less powerful beings and being smug about it. that is how it works, isn't it?

it was never really clear how many souls are needed for things like menos grande and other forms of higher hollows. there's so many "big" hollows around, and they've defeated such a massive number while in hueco mundo - they run the risk of outnumbering the number of human beings there've ever been on the planet. add in some of the creatures which i'm sure weren't human to begin with (like the hollow lizards and things) and there's an unfathomably large number of souls within hollows. since the 1700's there have been more people on the planet than at any other time in history. and the number of people who have ever lived is probably around 100 billion (subtract 6 billion, there and abouts and you have the number of souls either in soul society, or in hueco mundo as hollows, or in hell. or just lost in the dangai)

one billion souls appearing in soul society isn't something that wouldn't be noticed - hell, judging by the scenes we keep seeing of soul society, the seireitei is about the size of a small city.



in the living world, the largest city has the population of over 30 million. tokyo has hundreds of sky scraper and multi storey apartments - i can't see a population of more than that in soul society, even considering the vast majority will live in the rukon district, in slum houses. there would be an impossible number of of souls there.

the only explanation i can think of is in kubo's world there aren't/haven't been as many humans as there have been in real life. either that or soul society is physically larger than earth with no oceans and everywhere is inhabitable. and even still you've got the entire possibly larger than earth "planet" ruled by one small city. it was never clear if there were more than one city in soul society. unless the vast majority of the 100 billion souls are stuck in the cycle, waiting to be reborn as something or the other. and even after all that, what about the souls of other living creatures? who's numbers would have in total made the total number of humans seem insignificant? and now the fullbringers are here, what about the soul of absolutely everything?

overthinking stuff is awesome. even if most of my facts are possibly bs.
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Old 2011-02-16, 07:09   Link #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiggy Fuzz View Post
the only explanation i can think of is in kubo's world there aren't/haven't been as many humans as there have been in real life.
Easiest answer ever. In Bleachverse the entire mortal realm is only one city (Karakura town)
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Old 2011-02-16, 12:06   Link #188
james0246
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Some spoilers have been released, so I've started the new chapter thread. Please move relevant discussions to their new abode...
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