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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Episode 07 Rating
Perfect 10 57 40.71%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 47 33.57%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 23 16.43%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 6.43%
6 out of 10 : Average 3 2.14%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.71%
1 out of 10 : Painful 0 0%
Voters: 140. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-02-19, 22:38   Link #421
fukarming
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Well, I dunno about everyone else, but I guess I mistakenly thought death and torture were a bad thing, and some people wouldn't want that, and thus seek to eliminate the beings that were/would torture humans. Apparently, I'm wrong, though, because I haven't been shown someone specifically saying, "I don't want to die to a witch! Or be tortured by one!"
I think that depends on whose viewpoint you are talking about. In terms of humanity, we want witches kill. There is no doubt about it. In terms of Kyube and MG? Nobody knows, as no one knows what happen to Kyube and MG if witches become eradicated. They might be relieved of their MG duty and live happily ever after, or they will all die a gruesome death as they no longer have grief seed to power their body. No one knows.
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Old 2011-02-19, 22:39   Link #422
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
I hope I am not putting words in your mouth Kazu, but are you saying that familiar is not bad for humanity and we should keep them around as pets/ food for MG?
Nah, I'm just getting a bit tired of hearing Madoka should become MG to save the world and such when we don't even know how much of a threat the witches are to the world or Kyubey's overall motivations and goals. And we don't even know what Madoka wants to do either.

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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
There's no mention of the fact they might go after you wanting to cut you up like we saw in the anime.
What can I tell you? At least about Anja they do mention what she does to humans.
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Old 2011-02-19, 22:45   Link #423
Dharma
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Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Eh because you could remove the thing with a single finger and throw it 101m while you would need head or heart destruction for rthe same immediate death blow effect?
Throw for 101m with single finger is quite a feat by itself
It is not a death blow - just incapacitation. Easily achieved by use of teargas - on non zombie girl of course.

Quote:
"Not as bad" already points out that you think it is bad. If you got your arm sliced off, its not as bad as if your head was cut off right?
Yes I do. But situation by itself is not so good. Death is not a remote possibility. Hence, to present an issue it must be something worse than death. It very well can be. It even seems likely. As likely as Mamis revival.

Quote:
So if you were a competent policeman walking the beat and you can never retire even if you survive to a hundred (so you walk the beat with your cane) its not a bad thing at all because you'll might be shot and killed before that?
Not retirement - death. Death was the only way out before. It still is. Nothing changed.

Quote:
Oh so you're saying if Mami's soul gem was worn on her foot and she got nom nomed on half her body, her sould gem would not be trapped in the witch dimension? It would somehow escape the dimension? Maybe teleportation?
One death case. One soulgem destroyed. So yeah. Her soul gem would not be trapped in the witch dimension. It would be destroyed. It is the only logical answer for now. We need more data to argue otherwise.

Quote:
You do know that objects have momentum transferred and move in the direction of the force that acts on it? And that the momentum increases as the force is increased?
If you dismember non zombie girl she would be incapacitated. Where is advantage of not having soul gem?


Quote:
Call Sayaka by phone. "Oh hey Sayaka go rob that bank then drop it off at location X or i walk away with this nice bauble i have."
Not very compelling threat. Yes you can incapacitate me, but that is all. Why should I care?

Quote:
Seriously is it really so hard to come up with ways to ensure you are not subject to attack while your slave girl commits crimes for you?
She doesn’t feel pain. How? Sure there are ways but they as easily would work on non zombie girl as well. It is more like knowing secret and blackmailing then compelling. And being mg is a secret by itself.

Quote:
So, tell me in any scripture of any religion, what happens if your soul gets transferred into some object? Please do try and ask a priest to tell you and show you where in the scripture handles such a case and tell me.
As for "does it matter", tell me does it matter what happens when you die when you have physical evidence of the existence of a "soul" (and its shiny too)
Ahh, that is a bit different from before. Ok.
I already asked. Basically as long as her soul is clean she’ll be alright. And it cannot be dimmed by external means. There is no way our confession reject her. She is human being in need of help, so there is no way he reject her or label her as dead or such because it is exactly things that can harm her soul. Still it is not good thing, and I was kind of chastised because I find her position enviable. And of course there is no such scripture but it is exactly why priests exists.
Now, will you accept this truth? And if not why bother asking? I do not speak about this because I assumed that my confession is irrelevant to you. We are small and unorthodox confession.

Quote:
Eh, did i say it "cannot be strong enough"? If you have evidence that shows it is super strong, feel free to point it out
You did say that it is flaw so yes. You did say it. You must prove than soulgem cannot be strong for it to be flaw. As for now it is just your imagination running wild.

Quote:
major and obvious flaws
Not flaws. Not until you prove them to be. They are indeed a very disturbing possibilities, but it doesn’t make them flaws. However disturbing they are we do not know they are in the first place.

Spoiler for Momentum:
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Old 2011-02-19, 22:46   Link #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fukarming View Post
I think that depends on whose viewpoint you are talking about. In terms of humanity, we want witches kill. There is no doubt about it. In terms of Kyube and MG? Nobody knows, as no one knows what happen to Kyube and MG if witches become eradicated. They might be relieved of their MG duty and live happily ever after, or they will all die a gruesome death as they no longer have grief seed to power their body. No one knows.
Yeah, but I was referring to humanity in general. I was making the assumption that people in general don't want to be killed. And I suppose I was making the assumption that people like Madoka and Sayaka would want to kill all witches if they could.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
What can I tell you? At least about Anja they do mention what she does to humans.
Ah, but to use your words: "WE DON'T KNOW" that she can't kill if she so chooses.
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Old 2011-02-19, 22:55   Link #425
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Yeah, but I was referring to humanity in general. I was making the assumption that people in general don't want to be killed. And I suppose I was making the assumption that people like Madoka and Sayaka would want to kill all witches if they could.
That's why it's pointless to fault Madoka for not acting the way you assume she should.

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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Ah, but to use your words: "WE DON'T KNOW" that she can't kill if she so chooses.
Ok, that's a valid point. I suppose I just find the concept of "one bounce per lie" too good to spoil with senseless killing. But yeah, I don't know.
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Old 2011-02-19, 22:56   Link #426
fukarming
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Nah, I'm just getting a bit tired of hearing Madoka should become MG to save the world and such when we don't even know how much of a threat the witches are to the world or Kyubey's overall motivations and goals. And we don't even know what Madoka wants to do either.
So the ultimate question is, should Madoka become a MG? From humanities point of view? Sure. MG go around fighting witches is a good thing for humanity, especially I don't need to pay her or anything

But I don't think that should base on humanities POV. It has been established that being a MG in Madoka universe is not a fun thing to do and you should only become one if you are wishing for a miracle. Madoka do not have such a wish so I understand she didn't become one in the mean time. Besides as of this episode Sayaka/ Kyoko/ Homura had been doing fine against the witches. Madoka will surely add plenty of firepower to them, but they don't need this firepower immediately.
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Old 2011-02-19, 23:04   Link #427
jeroz
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ok, so here's what we know:

witches can make people committing suicide
familiars can grow to become witches, but what do they feed on? the sense of despair so that "witches grows out of despair"?


speaking of threats
Madoka throwing items down the bridge onto the incoming traffic, and Homura running on the highway. Both are acts that warrants a fine if not jail term, as both can cause serious traffic accidents.
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Old 2011-02-19, 23:06   Link #428
Kaijo
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Originally Posted by jeroz View Post
witches can make people committing suicide
familiars can grow to become witches, but what do they feed on? the sense of despair so that "witches grows out of despair"?
Not sure what they feed on, but lots of things seem to point to negative emotions and human feelings. According to Kyoko, familiars can kill humans in order to progress to being a witch.
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Old 2011-02-20, 01:16   Link #429
Qaenyin
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
They just don't kill. We have never seen a familiar killing anyone in the show anyway.
Something worth noting is also that we haven't seen, other than Mami, a witch actually kill someone(Which was self defense). All we know is something (some) witches do (can) cause people to want to kill themselves. It's up in the air whether the witches intend this result.

Take Anja for example. Maybe being turned into a ball and bounced around and reminded of every lie they've ever made in their life is humiliating enough for them to go kill themselves, or even perhaps it's just an aftereffect of the magic.

Witches aren't necessarily malicious creatures, just dangerous ones.\

(Note:I'm not saying they AREN'T evil, just that I think we're jumping to conclusions about how evil they are just based on hearsay from Kyubey who is of sketchy reliability and a bunch of Puella Magi who have been clearly duped by Kyubey already and as such aren't really reliable sources of information either).

At this point the only character who we can even consider trusting the answers from is Homura, and that's just because we don't know if she dodges the truth or not whereas we know for a fact everyone else except Kyubey is ignorant and Kyubey glosses over and covers up stuff constantly.
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Old 2011-02-20, 01:28   Link #430
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Originally Posted by Qaenyin View Post
Something worth noting is also that we haven't seen, other than Mami, a witch actually kill someone(Which was self defense). All we know is something (some) witches do (can) cause people to want to kill themselves. It's up in the air whether the witches intend this result.
We've seen a woman step off a building, driven by a witch. And we've seen a group of people attempt to mix chemicals that would cause their deaths.

Given that criteria, any court would rule the witches are dangerous threat to humanity. You don't have to succeed at murder, in order to be guilty. It's called attempted murder.

Quote:
(Note:I'm not saying they AREN'T evil, just that I think we're jumping to conclusions about how evil they are just based on hearsay from Kyubey who is of sketchy reliability and a bunch of Puella Magi who have been clearly duped by Kyubey already and as such aren't really reliable sources of information either).
He didn't say they were evil, either. Just dangerous. And given the attempted suicides we've seen, we are capable of understanding the danger. I once argued that the witches could just be on the level of bears and cougars; dangerous animals. But I think some people here arguing that they do have some intelligence, based on cards they read or something. Either way, it is clear they mean humanity harm, and it's not in self defense. The mass suicide group had to walk a decent ways to the place where they'd be killed, and not everyone was affected.

Quote:
At this point the only character who we can even consider trusting the answers from is Homura, and that's just because we don't know if she dodges the truth or not whereas we know for a fact everyone else except Kyubey is ignorant and Kyubey glosses over and covers up stuff constantly.
Eh, I wouldn't trust Homura totally, either. She clearly has an agenda that she doesn't care to share. And I find her reasoning for not telling a bit spurious; even if people didn't believe her, she could say, "Ask Kyube if you don't believe me. But know what you're getting into if you decide to become an MG." Given that Kyube hasn't lied yet and has answered every question asked of him, it should be a simple matter to confirm.
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Old 2011-02-20, 02:50   Link #431
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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
We've seen a woman step off a building, driven by a witch. And we've seen a group of people attempt to mix chemicals that would cause their deaths.

Given that criteria, any court would rule the witches are dangerous threat to humanity. You don't have to succeed at murder, in order to be guilty. It's called attempted murder.

Eh, I wouldn't trust Homura totally, either. She clearly has an agenda that she doesn't care to share. And I find her reasoning for not telling a bit spurious; even if people didn't believe her, she could say, "Ask Kyube if you don't believe me. But know what you're getting into if you decide to become an MG." Given that Kyube hasn't lied yet and has answered every question asked of him, it should be a simple matter to confirm.
I find it interesting that you were ready to defend QB not being evil at all cost but yet give zero consideration to the witches where the same line of argument you have used could have applied to them as well.

We didn't see witch directly kill anyone except in self defense. The witch driving people to death is based on QB's words and may not be necessarily true.

I also find it interesting that you distrust Homura and trust QB implicitly.
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Old 2011-02-20, 03:55   Link #432
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Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
I find it interesting that you were ready to defend QB not being evil at all cost but yet give zero consideration to the witches where the same line of argument you have used could have applied to them as well.

We didn't see witch directly kill anyone except in self defense. The witch driving people to death is based on QB's words and may not be necessarily true.
Two times we get to see a direkt attack of a witch. At the end of the first episode and the end of the fourth.
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Old 2011-02-20, 06:41   Link #433
Mentar
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QB has shown an interest in exactly 2 things:

1) Getting girls to contract with him

2) Getting contracted girls to collect Grief Seeds

Anything else is irrelevant for him. He doesn't care if there's infighting between MGs. He doesn't care if normal people are killed. He's content as long as he can keep his little racket going. Which absolutely doesn't fit with making him the savior of mankind for being the recruiter of the "only weapon against witches".

His actions have led to loss and suffering for all girls dealing with him (even Mami made clear that her life which seemed to be saved by QB was terrible). He knowingly withheld critical information from them, because having them know the truth would reduce his chance for a contract. Not a single time has he helped a girl in trouble. Compare that to Homura, whose warnings have proven to be correct every single time, and who has repeatedly saved the girls in trouble.

So, if you seriously insist on trusting QB and distrusting Homura, please be my guest. It feels completely unreasonable to me. Inexplicable. At the moment, there's around one skeleton dropping out of QB's locker each episode.

But hey, the girls didn't ask, right?
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Old 2011-02-20, 08:26   Link #434
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By the way if anyone is interested in translation comparisons yesy just released last night.
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Old 2011-02-20, 08:27   Link #435
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Can't we just drop the all "Kuybey/Homura is evil" on each thread ?
Seriously guys... Choose one place, go speculate, because it's running in circle and it's getting nowhere.

Finally catch up.
Spoiler for Episode 7:
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Old 2011-02-20, 11:47   Link #436
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Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
I also find it interesting that you distrust Homura and trust QB implicitly.
The witches direct attack on humans was already mentioned, but to clarify the record, Homura is human and thus capable of lying and deceit, and has an agenda she won't share. Kyube has answered honestly everytime he's asked a question. It's not quite a matter of total trust and distrust, as it is varying degrees based on what I trust or distrust them for. I trust Kyube won't volunteer information unless asked, but will answer honestly if you do so. I trust Homura won't answer specific questions, nor will she volunteer information about her real goals. But I trust her enough to honestly feel that she believes the MG work is bad and doesn't want people to become MG's.

In short, I know if I wanted to know what Kyube was up to, I could just ask. Homura is a different question. I don't trust Kyube "implicitly" but I do have him figured out enough to know what to expect from him. Homura is more of an enigma, so I can't fully know what she'll do, and thus I can't full trust her.

And trust/distrust is a different question altogether as opposed to evil/not evil, which I won't go into, except to say, I believe neither one is evil.
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Old 2011-02-20, 12:04   Link #437
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So you don't trust Homura purely on the fact that she's human?

Wow, that's pushing it.
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Old 2011-02-20, 12:08   Link #438
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These posts are by now kinda old. Been having computer troubles.

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Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
I hear this from time to time, but I have to disagree. Sure, Sayaka likes Kamijou, but her wish was ultimately an unselfish one. She could have worded it in much more selfish ways. She could have wished for him to love her, or to be healed and love her for it. Or just be grateful to her. The fact that she has acknowledged this herself, means she understands her position.

We're all selfish, but we can still make altruistic choices. Sayaka realizes what she wants, but she ultimately makes the more altruistic choice. Sure, she would hope Kamijou comes to love her, like any of us who do something for someone else does.

But I'm not willing to condemn her for the tiny selfish thoughts that we all have.
Me neither. But the real issue is--is Sayaka? 'Cause it's Sayaka herself right now who is rejecting all traces of her own selfishness or desires, and in the process tragically throwing away her own humanity.

On the other hand--say Sayaka does learn to accept her own human weaknesses. Then what? There is no guarantee her love or feelings will be answered; or, in the long term, that that is even possible. If Sayaka does abandon the righteousness and altruism she became a Puella Magi for to make her feelings her first priority, then she is forced to confront the fact that the sacrifice she made would have been completely meaningless.

This is why this development is a tragedy. Between her love and her sense of righteousness, neither are things which Sayaka would be truly okay with giving up on.

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Originally Posted by FlavorOfLife View Post
Eh because you could remove the thing with a single finger and throw it 101m while you would need head or heart destruction for rthe same immediate death blow effect?

"Not as bad" already points out that you think it is bad. If you got your arm sliced off, its not as bad as if your head was cut off right?

So if you were a competent policeman walking the beat and you can never retire even if you survive to a hundred (so you walk the beat with your cane) its not a bad thing at all because you'll might be shot and killed before that?

Oh so you're saying if Mami's soul gem was worn on her foot and she got nom nomed on half her body, her sould gem would not be trapped in the witch dimension? It would somehow escape the dimension? Maybe teleportation?

You do know that objects have momentum transferred and move in the direction of the force that acts on it? And that the momentum increases as the force is increased?

Call Sayaka by phone. "Oh hey Sayaka go rob that bank then drop it off at location X or i walk away with this nice bauble i have."

Seriously is it really so hard to come up with ways to ensure you are not subject to attack while your slave girl commits crimes for you?

So, tell me in any scripture of any religion, what happens if your soul gets transferred into some object? Please do try and ask a priest to tell you and show you where in the scripture handles such a case and tell me.

As for "does it matter", tell me does it matter what happens when you die when you have physical evidence of the existence of a "soul" (and its shiny too)

Eh, did i say it "cannot be strong enough"? If you have evidence that shows it is super strong, feel free to point it out
The other guy has replied by now, but I'd still like to use this as a stepping point for my own arguments. I think people might be somewhat overstating the actual negative effects of the Soul Gem, particularly as they are percieved by the characters themselves in the story. Let's focus on that latter aspect first, as I feel there has been a wide variance in interpretations these past two episodes.

First, Homura. She accepts it. She previously knew about it, and states that it is the payment for having received a miracle. I agree with Kaijou that Homura's stated reason for silence is somewhat spurious. In fact, I consider the real reason to be that, like Kyubey, she doesn't really thinks it matters. Having acknowledged herself that on some level her thinking is no longer human, I think she has accepted it as something of an ancillary part of the simple reality of Puella Magi.

From Homura and Kyubey's perspective, the mere fact that your soul has been moved somewhere shouldn't be enough to dissuade anyone from being a Puella Magi.

Next, Kyouko. She was shocked, but after a day, has come to terms with it. In terms of her own world view, where she will hold only her own self accountable for what she gains and what she sacrifices, it doesn’t really change anything. I think this reaction/conclusion is probably the most natural.

Next, Sayaka. Well…she’s currently kind of despairingly making use of it. A troubled positive? As for before that though…I feel her initial bitterness was over Kyubey’s betrayal of her. Sayaka was inadvertently exposed to a danger that she had been completely unaware about; this was of greater importance than the direct causes of it. Although Kyubey’s explanation was rational, she could no longer put her complete trust in him.

During her conversation with Kyouko, she had no further objections. As for her later breakdown, Sayaka’s “Because I’m already dead!” was emotionally powerful. I think that was spoken somewhat metaphorically though for the mahou shoujo reality that was finally hitting her; because as Mami told her—of a Puella Magi’s life fighting witches in constant struggle and in loneliness—she should have known that as a mahou shoujo she had been essentially dead already. In physical terms, I think Sayaka does know that hugging and kissing is still perfectly possible.

Next, Madoka. I think a significant degree of her impression of ‘horribleness’ can be associated with the shock and grief of having nearly killed Sayaka. Moreso than the actual effects of it, it is this traumatizing experience which colours Madoka’s reaction. As it is, while she feels it is horrible, I do not think this knowledge will present any particular further obstacle in her eventual decision to become a Puella Magi.

Next, Kyubey. He considers it practical. From a utilitarian perspective there don’t exist any negatives. He is distressed and confused by human girls’ visceral/emotional reaction.

Finally, Mami. Well, she's dead.

lol. Well, so as you can see, the Soul Gem's effects themselves have not particularly influenced the perspectives of the characters. It is rather the circumstances which surround the reveal which bother them: the fact that they can't trust Kyubey, the fact that Sayaka was nearly killed inadvertantly. But as for the discussion of possible negative effects themselves, let me also offer some arguments.


First: sorry, but it is absolutely right to say that the Soul Gem inherently decreases a Puella Magi’s weaknesses and vulnerability. If we're talking about combat survivability, it is impossible to argue that it is easier to cut off a body part and lob it 100 meters, while fending off a regenerating opponent who is still capable of fighting you, than it is to incapacitate a normal human enemy, I think this is obvious. If one is able to cut off a Puella Magi’s arm (if she wears her Soul Gem on her arm!!) in the first place, then the pain and possibly lethal bloodloss would be infinitely more valuable than the absurd notion of being able to somehow pick it up and get it 100 meters away from her.

Similarly, the idea of ‘controlling’ a magical girl by taking hold of her soul gem is frankly ridiculous. First of all, you would have to constantly be (a stalker) within 100 meters of her to have any functionality. Disregarding the obvious limitations this alone would place on her use to you, the controller himself has to sleep sometime! Losing consciousness against an opponent with magical powers and within a 100 meter vicinity, something you have to do eventually, can anyone honestly believe it’s even possible you won’t get your ass pwnt and the gem returned to her? Unless, that is, you are suggesting a one time use of her which is absurd considering the impossibe improbability of obtaining a soul gem and knowing how to use it in the first place.

Finally, to comment on the religious argument which has been brought up here. Metaphysical insecurity is certainly the only argument against Soul Gems carrying any degree of merit objectively, but then objectively the default religious understanding of ‘death’ would be 'oblivion' over ‘heaven’ or ‘reincarnation’ fundamentally. While the thought of your soul physically exposed does indeed bring up vulnerability over possible metaphysical outcomes, religious associations seem out of place here, particularly for girls so far whose motivations thus far seem very much grounded in more immediate aspects of reality. I think a general default assumption that, Soul Gem or not, in this universe death will lead you into oblivion, is by far the most reasonable expectation.

The more terrifying possibility, in a complete non-religious aspect, is the thought that if magical girls can indeed turn into witches, they will get to spend the rest of eternity in the dark abysses of Kyuubey's body. This idea, however, also remains complete speculation currently. I personally doubt it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
She made a wish for a guy that she loved dearly without first confessing to him and determining if he loves her back or not (keep in mind that just because he's bed-ridden doesn't mean she can't do this; a love confession doesn't require the other person to be fully physically able). She willingly took a huge risk here, of her own choice. Kyubey has nothing to do with that, this is totally on Sayaka. Honestly, if I was in her shoes and had her feelings, I would have confessed to Kamijo and see if he feels the same way about me before I make a wish for him with romantic desire being the main true reason behind that wish.

A true Monkey's Paw is when the means used to grant a wish is one that makes the wish regrettable. It would be like if Kamijo's hand had been healed by replacing it with... a healthy and functioning monkey's paw.

But that didn't happen. His hand was healed perfectly, and is very much a normal healthy human hand. The wish, by all accounts, was granted honestly and fairly. Even Homura admits that Kyubey is selling actual "miracles", with all the positive connotation that this word holds.
Finally; the ‘Monkey’s Paw’ discussion seems long over by now (you're right, of course; the distinction is undefinable 'magic' versus manipulation of natural events and/or consequences), but I'd like to comment on the more fundamental point you and Mentar seem to have missed in your conversation. The fact is, as far as Sayaka's hopes or intentions go, it is impossible that she would have used the wish to gain for Kamijou’s love in the first place. Not only is there the fundamental questionability of attaining your love by the manipulation of feelings, Sayaka operates under a strict morality/mentality where even desires or selfishness is considered ‘wrong’ of her. At least at the time, because for Sayaka it was true that she considered herself too blessed and unknown to suffering--beyond having any thoughts of self-benefit, Sayaka got exactly what she asked for—an act of self-sacrifice. Driven by her feelings for him, Sayaka genuinely believed that she would or should be satisfied with only Kamijou's happiness. What she did not understand yet was simply the fact that this degree of selflessness cannot be expected of anybody.


At 14 years old, having lived life painlessly in a peaceful metropolitan city, Sayaka got the impression that having desires was ‘bad’ of her. Acting on that self-judgement, trying to shoulder the true burdens of reality, Sayaka committed herself to a path of self-sacrifice irreversibly. As an idealistic girl exposed to the inequality of the world’s suffering, I don’t think you can truly blame her for believing in altruism. However, she is paying for that naiveté and good-heartedness now as she realizes both what she's lost, and what she sacrificed, with increasing clarity.
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Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2011-02-20, 13:20   Link #439
Kaijo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
QB has shown an interest in exactly 2 things:

1) Getting girls to contract with him

2) Getting contracted girls to collect Grief Seeds

Anything else is irrelevant for him. He doesn't care if there's infighting between MGs.
Incorrect. He knows that Sayaka was being hotheaded and reckless, just that nothing he said would stop her. Same thing with Kyoko. He just can't do anything about it. Considering his logical nature, we can extrapolate his logic: MG's may fight, but I have to keep contracting anyway, so I'll just have to hope they don't fight much, or at least concentrate enough on the familiars and witches.

Quote:
He knowingly withheld critical information from them, because having them know the truth would reduce his chance for a contract.
While true, it is also true that telling them also makes things worse. In the real world, sometimes you really can't tell someone everything, and that really is for their own good.

Quote:
Not a single time has he helped a girl in trouble.
I keep seeing this accusation leveled at him, but not once has anyone who has ever held this viewpoint, come up with a way that he could do so. You won't answer of course, but I'll ask anyway: "What could Kyube possibly do to help?"

He's said he's powerless to stop magical girls fighting, and he can't even defend himself!

Quote:
Compare that to Homura, whose warnings have proven to be correct every single time, and who has repeatedly saved the girls in trouble.
Homura, who doesn't want Madoka to become a Magical Girl. Now tell me if you honestly believe that Madoka won't become an MG by the end of the show and save the day? But hey, I can also play that game: Kyube has been proven to be correct every single time.

Quote:
But hey, the girls didn't ask, right?
I suggest you look up contract law and tropes like Read the Fine Print. Kyube may be douchy in this regard, but the girls are damn stupid, and not matter how hard we try, you can never fully protect an idiot from themselves. Apply blame equally.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
What she did not understand yet was simply the fact that this degree of selflessness cannot be expected of anybody.
You hit the nail on the head here. This is one of Sayaka's biggest flaws; she expects too much of herself and castrates herself for even thinking the smallest selfish thought. She has to learn that selfish thoughts are okay, and it's okay to want something for yourself, as long as you aren't inflicting your will onto someone who doesn't want it.
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Old 2011-02-20, 14:07   Link #440
totoum
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaijo View Post
Incorrect. He knows that Sayaka was being hotheaded and reckless, just that nothing he said would stop her. Same thing with Kyoko. He just can't do anything about it. Considering his logical nature, we can extrapolate his logic: MG's may fight, but I have to keep contracting anyway, so I'll just have to hope they don't fight much, or at least concentrate enough on the familiars and witches.


I can't really follow your extrapolation,yes he said there's nothing he can do about it but nowhere has he said that he actually cares or that he'd do something if he could.

He avoided the question when Kyoko brought it up and in his conversation with Madoka he said the only thing that he could tell Sayaka was that she was being reckless,not that it was wrong or something he disaprooves of.
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