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Old 2011-06-09, 17:49   Link #2301
sneaker
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No need to draw, just a tube within a tube.
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Old 2011-06-09, 20:26   Link #2302
Zetsubo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
Ok, but where is the "cooling" taking place? I only see air exchange with the environment, which means that if it's 40°C outside it will still be at least 40°C inside. I don't think that's cool enough for Yamada-San. And if you start active cooling, you need as much isolation as possible with no heat exchange with the outside. But if you're from a tropical country, maybe that's enough for you?
Firstly the rate of heat loss of the home is dependent on the wind speed around and through that home. So the faster the wind speed, the faster the house surfaces cool but it will only cool to the AMBIENT temperature. It will not cool to below what the environment is at, not without the use of a heat pump or evap unit of some kind.

Secondly, sitting in front of a fan reduces body temperature even when ambient air temperatures are awfully high.

Why is this so ?


The human body doesn't really care if the house is 40 degrees. The human body wants to get RID of the heat inside it and this occurs by PRIMARILY by perspiration which is predominantly affected by wind speed and humidity.

Now lets set some facts:

1. Air Conditioners pump heat from inside the home to the outside.

2 . Air Conditioners lower the humidity inside the home by also getting rid of water vapor from the air inside the home.

Given the above: Because the temperature is now lowered inside the home, the human body can now radiate heat more effectively as heat naturally moves from warmer to colder areas.

ALSO AND MOST IMPORTANTLY perspiration takes place at a more rapid pace because of the lowered humidity and the increased wind speed inside the home via the A/C fan

That is to say: More sweat and respiration condensate/water can evaporate into that cooler home space air because the given air volume of the home can accept the perspiration. It is then "moved and pumped out" by the Air/Con unit.

This human function, perspiration and respiration, is primarily how we regulate body temperature.

Evaporation cannot effectively occur in cooler environments... UNLESS the humidity is low for a given volume of air.

Convective systems will not lower humidity... but it does do one thing...

It takes advantage of the movement of AIR... just like sitting in front of the fan.

Another factor to consider:

3. Wind chill factor or simply wind chill. This contributes to what we called the "Felt Air temperature" where the body detects a temperature lower than the actual ambient. Because its is PERSPIRING FASTER .... and not in a way where you see big gobs of sweat... but you see nothing at all.


Understand ?

Since humidity control, and not only heat, is MOST crucial for south East Asian air... we will still need an active cooling system or some sort... but it need not be as power hungry if we take advantage of natures original cooling systems for our body.

if we can move larger volumes of air, through the house, we are effectively creating a huge heat exchanger and also "swapping volume for surface area"

That way... perspiration will happily do all the work, without the sweat stains and visibly ickyness, and all Yamada san needs to do is to drink water to restore her hax0r coolant level.
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Old 2011-06-09, 20:59   Link #2303
sneaker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsubo View Post
Firstly the rate of heat loss of the home is dependent on the wind speed around and through that home. So the faster the wind speed, the faster the house surfaces cool but it will only cool to the AMBIENT temperature. It will not cool to below what the environment is at, not without the use of a heat pump or evap unit of some kind.

Secondly, sitting in front of a fan reduces body temperature even when ambient air temperatures are awfully high.

Why is this so ?


The human body doesn't really care if the house is 40 degrees. The human body wants to get RID of the heat inside it and this occurs by PRIMARILY by perspiration which is predominantly affected by wind speed and humidity.

Now lets set some facts:

1. Air Conditioners pump heat from inside the home to the outside.

2 . Air Conditioners lower the humidity inside the home by also getting rid of water vapor from the air inside the home.

Given the above: Because the temperature is now lowered inside the home, the human body can now radiate heat more effectively as heat naturally moves from warmer to colder areas.

ALSO AND MOST IMPORTANTLY perspiration takes place at a more rapid pace because of the lowered humidity and the increased wind speed inside the home via the A/C fan

That is to say: More sweat and respiration condensate/water can evaporate into that cooler home space air because the given air volume of the home can accept the perspiration. It is then "moved and pumped out" by the Air/Con unit.

This human function, perspiration and respiration, is primarily how we regulate body temperature.

Evaporation cannot effectively occur in cooler environments... UNLESS the humidity is low for a given volume of air.

Convective systems will not lower humidity... but it does do one thing...

It takes advantage of the movement of AIR... just like sitting in front of the fan.

Another factor to consider:

3. Wind chill factor or simply wind chill. This contributes to what we called the "Felt Air temperature" where the body detects a temperature lower than the actual ambient. Because its is PERSPIRING FASTER .... and not in a way where you see big gobs of sweat... but you see nothing at all.


Understand ?
Until here I'm with you. When I talked about "cooling" I solely meant lowering room temperature. (quote wiki: "Cooling is the transfer of thermal energy via thermal radiation, heat conduction or convection.")

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsubo View Post
Since humidity control, and not only heat, is MOST crucial for south East Asian air... we will still need an active cooling system or some sort... but it need not be as power hungry if we take advantage of natures original cooling systems for our body.
You seem to advertise using an active cooling system and convection at the same time. But if we're talking about lowering room temperatures active and convective cooling will always work against each other (when room temperature is below ambient temperature). Do you agree on this? I feel like we used different definitions of cooling... or rather I was only thinking about the room temperature, while you where on the level of Yamada-San. I don't think using fans (or convective cooling) is sufficient to keep Yamada-San happy, but I must admit I never lived in any tropical country. We had temperatures well above 30°C for some time during the last summer in my country and that was already a living hell in my opinion.
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Old 2011-06-09, 22:30   Link #2304
Zetsubo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sneaker View Post
Until here I'm with you. When I talked about "cooling" I solely meant lowering room temperature. (quote wiki: "Cooling is the transfer of thermal energy via thermal radiation, heat conduction or convection.")



You seem to advertise using an active cooling system and convection at the same time. But if we're talking about lowering room temperatures active and convective cooling will always work against each other (when room temperature is below ambient temperature). Do you agree on this? I feel like we used different definitions of cooling... or rather I was only thinking about the room temperature, while you where on the level of Yamada-San. I don't think using fans (or convective cooling) is sufficient to keep Yamada-San happy, but I must admit I never lived in any tropical country. We had temperatures well above 30°C for some time during the last summer in my country and that was already a living hell in my opinion.

Under Floor Heating and Cooling

The amount of heat exchanged from or to an underfloor system is based on the combined radiant and convective heat transfer coefficients.
  • Radiant heat transfer is constant based on the Stefan–Boltzmann constant.
  • Convective heat transfer changes over time depending on the air's density and thus its buoyancy.
  • Air buoyancy changes according to surface temperatures and forced air movement due to fans and the motion of people and objects in the space.

Convective heat transfer with underfloor systems is much greater when the system is operating in a heating rather than cooling mode. Typically with underfloor heating the convective component is almost 50% of the total heat transfer and in underfloor cooling the convective component is less than 10%.

However...

From the same article: "In the global drive for sustainability, long term economics supports the need to eliminate where possible, compression for cooling and combustion for heating. It will then be necessary to use low quality heat sources for which radiant underfloor heating and cooling is well suited."

Its not perfect ... but comments ?
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Old 2011-06-10, 02:37   Link #2305
Jinto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsubo View Post

Under Floor Heating and Cooling

The amount of heat exchanged from or to an underfloor system is based on the combined radiant and convective heat transfer coefficients.
  • Radiant heat transfer is constant based on the Stefan–Boltzmann constant.
  • Convective heat transfer changes over time depending on the air's density and thus its buoyancy.
  • Air buoyancy changes according to surface temperatures and forced air movement due to fans and the motion of people and objects in the space.

Convective heat transfer with underfloor systems is much greater when the system is operating in a heating rather than cooling mode. Typically with underfloor heating the convective component is almost 50% of the total heat transfer and in underfloor cooling the convective component is less than 10%.

However...

From the same article: "In the global drive for sustainability, long term economics supports the need to eliminate where possible, compression for cooling and combustion for heating. It will then be necessary to use low quality heat sources for which radiant underfloor heating and cooling is well suited."

Its not perfect ... but comments ?
What you describe as convective cooling is basically passive cooling (like in your PC - okay technically using fans is something active... but not active in a sense of actively lowering the temperature). It cannot easily be combined with active cooling systems. A heat pump is an active cooling/heating system that does operate better in a closed cycle than in an open cycle mode. You can however thermally make an open cycle almost identical to a closed cycle if you use heat exchangers that use the coolness of the used air in the inner system to pre-cool the incoming fresh air. So, that the fresh air thats flowing in the inner system is already cooled down to the same temperature as the used air that leaves the inner system. Depending on the amount of air that flows through the heat exchanger, the exchanger must be dimensioned acordingly (the higher the amount of air per hour the more area the heat exchanger must have to be effective).
Now the effect of having a lot of cool fresh air and a constant air stream is that you do not need to cool down the room temperature as much because the felt temperature will be lower than the actual temperature. Now you could get the same air stream with just circulating the inner air using a fan, but this has the draw back, that you need to get some fresh air inside sometimes.
In a poorly insulated home this will be done because of bad insulation, but tarnslates into open cycle cooling which is costly. In a very well insulated home you'ld have to do this manually by e.g. opening the windows in the morning (which would also make it an open cycle).
The heat exchanger allows for fresh air in an open loop well insulated system, without the additional cooling costs of an open loop system.
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Old 2011-06-10, 05:09   Link #2306
sa547
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Watched a portion of CNN's Backstory about the orphaned kids and teenagers. For a moment I felt a bit heartbroken, wondering what the future lies for them, having lost so much except for the clothes on their backs.
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Old 2011-06-12, 10:39   Link #2307
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http://news.livedoor.com/article/detail/5625269/

"They judge in engineering, they can't pick up the crane."
"Maybe no solution in Monju."
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Old 2011-06-16, 09:48   Link #2308
Jeffry2009
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Post Earthquake Japan 3 months later by DANNY CHOO

http://www.dannychoo.com/post/en/261...ake+Japan.html
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Old 2011-06-16, 10:41   Link #2309
sneaker
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Originally Posted by Jeffry2009 View Post
Here without screenshots of the whole browser (reminds me of people filming screens with their phones and then reuploading to youtube....):
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/201...ter_the_q.html
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Old 2011-06-18, 00:30   Link #2310
Mystique
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Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Those who wondered how Japan recovered so quickly after losing WW2 and dealing with the nuclear issues, here's a 3 month report of the clean up with before and after pictures of their progress.

It's decided, this country's super powers is 'speed' and 'efficiency' when constructing or rebuilding like no other in this world
Some pictures may take your breath away, lemme know which numbered shots did it for you.

Before and after pictures, 3 months later
Quote:
Japan continues to deal with the enormous task of cleaning up and moving forward three months after the 9.0 earthquake and tsunami that devastated the northeast coast. Local authorities are still dealing with the damaged Fukushima Daiichi Nuclear Power Plant, and now the rainy season, which could increase the risk of disease as workers clear away the debris, is approaching.
Collected here are images from this past weekend marking the three-month point, as well then-and-now images of the destruction shot by Kyodo News via the Associated Press. -- Lloyd Young (29 photos total)
PS: As usual, don't forget to keep donating, keep giving those few dollars here and there whenever you can ^^
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Old 2011-06-18, 01:26   Link #2311
Dr. Casey
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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
It's decided, this country's super powers is 'speed' and 'efficiency' when constructing or rebuilding like no other in this world
Some pictures may take your breath away, lemme know which numbered shots did it for you.
The pictures from 22 on were all pretty amazing, I can't decide which one made me do the biggest double take. 29 looks to be in worse shape for the 'after' picture than some of the others; it's made a great improvement of course, but the place still looks like it's hurt and whimpering (Wheras the others give a stronger 'trying to move on with life' feel). 26 confuses me a bit since the level of devastation seems about the same in both pictures, with the only change I see being the moved boat.

It's nice to see pictures like these, at any rate, and I'm really glad Japan has such skilled and hard-working people to take care of it.
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Old 2011-06-20, 03:36   Link #2312
SaintessHeart
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Japan in 2nd-biggest trade deficit (2:03)

Quote:
June 20 - Japan logs its 2nd-largest ever trade deficit in May, after imports jumped while exports fell at a faster-than-expected pace; figures cast some doubt over sharp second-half recovery. Arnold Gay reports.
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Old 2011-06-20, 10:15   Link #2313
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
At some point, the value of Yen has to drop. I have no idea what currency traders are thinking to make Yen this expensive.
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Old 2011-06-20, 13:49   Link #2314
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
At some point, the value of Yen has to drop. I have no idea what currency traders are thinking to make Yen this expensive.
They pumped money into the Japanese economy to invest in construction companies, thus demand for the yen made it expensive.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-06-20, 15:29   Link #2315
Solafighter
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Truly amazing photos. Nice to see, that the work is like usual, very reliable and fast.
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Old 2011-06-20, 17:08   Link #2316
Mr. Wang
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Those photos... kinda brought a tear to my eye. I remember going on about in this speech that Japan would rebuild, some time ago in this thread... I'm happy to see that things are really heading in the right direction.

They'll get over this disaster one day, and life will continue on, as normal. That's the hope I've held 3 months ago, and that still hasn't changed.
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Old 2011-06-20, 17:12   Link #2317
GreatTeacherKen
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Those pictures are really inspiring; it's amazing what people can do when they work with each other.
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Old 2011-06-20, 17:24   Link #2318
Endless Soul
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I'm wondering how they will get that large boat out of the middle of town.
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Old 2011-06-20, 20:07   Link #2319
Vexx
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Recharge your cellphone using campfire and boiling water. New product introduced in disaster-conscious Japan:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110620...chnologyenergy
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Old 2011-06-21, 00:03   Link #2320
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Recharge your cellphone using campfire and boiling water. New product introduced in disaster-conscious Japan:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110620...chnologyenergy
Now we need to adapt field radios to use this device....and combat patrols would be so much easier in outfield with less weight for the radioman and more ammo for the machine gunner.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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