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Old 2011-09-12, 14:21   Link #2361
Endless Soul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I'm wondering if that is the photographer's van and he's using it to line up the shots. or if the first two were before and the third was after and the van is slightly moved (meaning it runs) but put back to help identify the exact spot.
That could be. In the first shot it's on a road and not covered with junk.
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Old 2011-09-12, 15:23   Link #2362
Random32
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Originally Posted by Endless Soul View Post
I noticed that too, what gives? What are they going to do with that large boat in the middle of the street?
I think at least one town is leaving a boat around in memory or something. Or maybe they don't have the money to move it.
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Old 2011-09-12, 15:44   Link #2363
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This may already be a moot question, but are crews still in process of assessing the damage and loss of lives from the earthquake/tsunami from March?
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Old 2011-09-12, 16:02   Link #2364
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Ships on dry land...either will be eventually scrapped, or maybe converted into a building.
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Old 2011-10-01, 22:57   Link #2365
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There's apparently going to be a benefit concert on October 29 and 30. Performers will include Minori Chihara, Sphere and Kalafina. Here's the ANN story.

I thought there would be something like this, but sooner after the quake. (I think the Concert for New York was held only about a month after Sep. 11, and then a big New Orleans benefit was held something like one or two months after Katrina.) According to this Rolling Stone story, a concert in London was planned for April, but was cancelled because they couldn't get enough acts. > Talk about a kick in the ribs.

Last edited by andyjay729; 2011-10-01 at 23:28.
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Old 2011-10-02, 17:21   Link #2366
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Originally Posted by andyjay729 View Post
There's apparently going to be a benefit concert on October 29 and 30. Performers will include Minori Chihara, Sphere and Kalafina. Here's the ANN story.

I thought there would be something like this, but sooner after the quake. (I think the Concert for New York was held only about a month after Sep. 11, and then a big New Orleans benefit was held something like one or two months after Katrina.) According to this Rolling Stone story, a concert in London was planned for April, but was cancelled because they couldn't get enough acts. > Talk about a kick in the ribs.
Cause you forget for fear of turning into a mutant, all entertainment related shows and stuff were cancelled. No one was coming to Japan let alone Tokyo for fear of getting cancer, etc etc

Radiation scares do a country good for keeping peeps away sadly....
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Old 2011-10-02, 20:07   Link #2367
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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Cause you forget for fear of turning into a mutant, all entertainment related shows and stuff were cancelled. No one was coming to Japan let alone Tokyo for fear of getting cancer, etc etc

Radiation scares do a country good for keeping peeps away sadly....
Actually the show planned for April was to be held in London. Why couldn't anyone show up? (Afraid of residual radiation from Chernobyl, perhaps? That didn't stop Live 8.)
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Old 2011-10-02, 21:53   Link #2368
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If London, then not sure. But sure enough did the entire world panic enough to go crazy on iodine tablets. The residue did spread as far as Europe this time, nothing much to do anything but fear was a big factor at the time.

Eitherway, better late than never, they had already made a 'charity CD' and many other drives have been done to help funds and so on, so yeah, least it's going ahead now ^^
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Old 2011-10-03, 02:37   Link #2369
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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Cause you forget for fear of turning into a mutant, all entertainment related shows and stuff were cancelled. No one was coming to Japan let alone Tokyo for fear of getting cancer, etc etc

Radiation scares do a country good for keeping peeps away sadly....
I flew into Tokyo for vacation on 3/30, and stayed in Kanto and Kansai for 2 weeks. I drank water, drank tea, and generally did what the locals were doing - whatever they normally did. Some Japanese asked me why I wasn't afraid - they just assumed all foreigners were - but it was important to me to show Japan that not everyone was terrified to visit and that the world hadn't forgotten about them.
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Old 2011-10-03, 03:40   Link #2370
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I flew into Tokyo for vacation on 3/30, and stayed in Kanto and Kansai for 2 weeks. I drank water, drank tea, and generally did what the locals were doing - whatever they normally did. Some Japanese asked me why I wasn't afraid - they just assumed all foreigners were - but it was important to me to show Japan that not everyone was terrified to visit and that the world hadn't forgotten about them.
Honestly, your romanticized reasons are almost as deluted as those of the fear mongers. "...the world hadn't forgotten about them." They were in the global news almost every day, but Guardian Enzo on his mission gave the local people the feeling the world had not forgotten about them.

hm, I thought quite a while over how I could write it to be as little offensive as possible, but still contains strong critique.
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Old 2011-10-03, 08:44   Link #2371
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Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Honestly, your romanticized reasons are almost as deluted as those of the fear mongers. "...the world hadn't forgotten about them." They were in the global news almost every day, but Guardian Enzo on his mission gave the local people the feeling the world had not forgotten about them.

hm, I thought quite a while over how I could write it to be as little offensive as possible, but still contains strong critique.
Hey, if he made a few dozen individuals feel like the world hadn't forgotten them (they don't see overseas news generally, they just know the tourists have vanished), then as an individual he accomplished his purpose. Like any notion, it takes a tipping point of individuals doing the same thing to fix a macro problem.

If I had the funds I'd be over there yearly... but that's kind of on hold due to some strange disappearance of wealth I had 3 or 4 years ago.
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Old 2011-10-03, 09:32   Link #2372
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Wish I had the money to go over there, always wanted to try that temple tour I read about once. But alas I'm a poor ass.
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Old 2011-10-03, 11:57   Link #2373
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Originally Posted by Jinto View Post
Honestly, your romanticized reasons are almost as deluted as those of the fear mongers. "...the world hadn't forgotten about them." They were in the global news almost every day, but Guardian Enzo on his mission gave the local people the feeling the world had not forgotten about them.

hm, I thought quite a while over how I could write it to be as little offensive as possible, but still contains strong critique.
Tell that to the person who runs a hotel with 6 or 8 rooms, all of which have been empty because of a bunch of preposterous reports on the news. I saw this not just in Tokyo - which was totally safe (apart from aftershocks, but that's just life) but in places like Miyajima, which is comically absurd. You don't think having a little business helps them out? If everyone felt the way you do (and most people did at the time)...

But since you were pretty much one of the fear-mongers all along, as I recall, I'm not surprised that's your take. To each his own - we make our own choices in this life.
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Old 2011-10-03, 13:33   Link #2374
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To be completely honest, I agree with Jinto.

Yes, by all means show support for the people of Japan. Yes, they have indeed suffered a devastating triple blow, not just to homes, infrastructure and livelihoods and also to the national economy. And yes, lives have been lost and many may well remain forever missing, cruelly providing no closure for loved ones left behind.

But the scale of the global reaction to Japan's disasters begs for a quiet reminder to keep things in perspective. Despite all its woes, Japan remains the world's third-largest economy, more than capable of finding the funds to rebuild its shattered countryside despite sovereign debts twice the size of its GDP — all it lacks, perhaps, is the political will to do so.

And, despite all its suffering, Japan, by virtue of being an advanced country, easily commands the attention of many millions who share an affinity with its unique people and culture — so much so that it has no difficulty getting aid and sympathy from all around the globe. All Japan lacks, perhaps, is the self-belief in its own ability to rise from the ashes.

In stark contrast, pity the unnoticed and unloved corners of the world, where people have been suffering in relative anonymity, too poor and too unimportant to command the fickle attention of supposedly well-meaning global citizens.
And before anyone complains about how the "scale" of the disasters are different, stop and think: one life lost is always one too many, and for most of the places struck in recent natural disasters all over South-east and South Asia, the suffering lingers longer for those who survive, who are now a lot poorer and a lot less able to pull themselves back to their feet.

Where are the flood of visitors to the Philippines, South China, Vietnam, Nepal and North India, eager to show their solidarity with stricken communities? I daresay that for many of these places, they are much cheaper to visit than Japan, and perhaps offer insights you can't find in the Land of the Rising Sun.

So, yes again, by all means fly the flag for Japan. But let it not be at the expense of knowing that perhaps, just perhaps, we're being a bit too biased in the way we "spread the love".


Yup, I visited Japan too, just recently in fact, when Tokyo was going through a brief spasm "irradiated beef" fears. But I felt too self-conscious about my decision to even want to talk about it, let alone celebrate it like a call to duty. Somehow, it just didn't feel right to crow so much about how "we foreigners love Japan that we'd do anything to help"especially when I wasn't actually doing anything special, like helping with the disaster relief — now that's real dedication.

Talking too much about the "love" smacks more of satisfying one's ego, rather than showing true support.
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Old 2011-10-03, 14:24   Link #2375
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Which, unfortunately, is totally undermined by the reality that global charitable contributions to quake/tsunami relief in Japan were dwarfed by those which came in for comparable disasters like the tsunami in Indonesia. People recognize that Japan is a richer country than most other countries which see the headlines only through natural disasters, and they gave less. Any financial assistance to any region in crisis is a good thing - it's not a contest.

In my view, what Japan needed was not just financial assistance - though that obviously helps too - but to show the world that their country wasn't the crippled, wailing and teeth-gnashing border-to-border nuclear wasteland that was being portrayed in the international media. And you can't fight that kind of ignorance by writing a check. When the Indonesia tsunami hit, my company organized a system for our customers to give financially and raised over $5 million, and I was happy to be a tiny part of implementing that. Different ways of helping, but no one should be encouraged to do nothing because it's always easier to do nothing.
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Old 2011-10-03, 18:46   Link #2376
Mystique
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I was gonna reply to Jinto's reply as well as taking in TRL's points. (Initially I wasn't cause I'm emotionally tied to this but I ended up doing so anyways)

Ironically it's very similar to how I feel about the over drama of Sept 11 in America (ironically 6month anniversary of March 11th quake) over a terrorist attack of many in human history but yet, the whole world must treat that as 'special'. New Yorkers won't let it go and heal like a wound they wanna keep scratching.

I know/see that other countries in the world are also having their fair share of issues but you gotta take into account the way it went down and also the everlasting effects here. I think if we didn't have the nuclear issues, then we could just mourn the 20,000 dead and/ or still missing and get on with things a damn sight easier.

- No amount to money or a country's capital status is gonna neutralise the poison in the fields of Fukushima anytime soon and allow those who have lost their livelihoods to rebuild and continue.
- This country uses a great amount of electricity and what with having shut down more than half of the nuclear reactors in the country, short of doing something asap we're heading to an energy crisis.
- The government are still in debt to some degree and they need to figure how to relocate two towns to higher ground and aaaall it's people so if/when another tsunami hits, they won't be so heavily affected.
- The yen got stronger but Japan is a country of export. No one wants nor can afford to order things from here, profits were lost, many businesses also felt the impact of the recession.
Not to mention many landlords who own property or have businesses relating to exchange students or foreigners have also majorly lost out to the point of bankrupcy or financial crisis to not being able to afford morgages, rents and loans, their own lives are in trouble.

Perhaps lastly, no matter how 'chivalrous' Enzo seems, the nature of the disaster was unique.
It was a triple hit disaster in a go.
One, 5th biggest quake in human history, that alone is something.
Two, for those who were awake, the entire world sat in their chairs and watched Mother Nature kill/murder/destroy numerous towns and steal up to 20,000 lives and make 100,000 displaced (peeps still are living in refugee camps til this day) and affected a great deal of us in the Eastern region.
As humans, the whole world got a taste of mortality, in a similar way to perhaps watching the twin towers drop, it kinda humbles a person and kicks people into action.
(see the 'pray for Japan' book)

Lastly, this is an anime forum based on Japanese culture.
Who are you two to try and tie in the woes of the rest of the world over the sentiment of one who moved and wanted to do his part to help the communities of a country he loves. Many people will move for Philippines, or China or for whatever cause they want to, Enzo just happened to display his love on it here.

And no, the trail of thought is not ridiculous, perhaps it shows you how still closed off the Japanese natives are in some ways mentally. They take loyalty so serious on a level throughout their history, it's still embedded in their subconscious.
They didn't blame those who wanted to flee, cause goodness knows how much they exaggerate the rest of the world being dangerous, even though Japan is safe, but those who fled left behind jobs and students and made trying to get back to normal life asap even harder.
The natives have never experienced anything like it and this is a nation that likes to please, if not are famed for being one of the world's greatest 'hosts' for tourists.
For those who stayed, trust me, outta my own personal experience, it meant more than any food or financial donation.
This is also a country that has learnt to not display their personal feelings, but they spoke about their extreme gratitude and how they'll remember, take into account. That also was far from the norm.

The "group" mentality clicked in and for once, natives were more than happy to not segregate the foreigners of Japan but work together with us as well to help build things if possible since so many fled anyways.
So it meant a lot at the time.
25,000 left within 2-3 days, I've never seen the immigration office so chaotic or Tokyo so deserted, it was all new events which as to how one can take it into perspective and try to seem 'less dramatic' isn't easy.
Fear grips the heart not the head where logic resides and where all you guys were debating back and forth on here, comfy in your seats with no imminent threat, just bcause you have the luxury to do so.
It all seemed just as arrogant to me over March and April while I was suffering but that's how it goes around the world.

I can tell a New Yorker to get over themselves with Sep 11th, cause hell London got hit as well semi related to it on July 7th 2005, but you don't see the entire world stopping to give us a moment, not to mention, people are murdered and terrorised everyday.
But as someone mentioned, it had never happened on such a scale on their homeland before that the 1st time experience shifted their way of life and views and feelings on the matter.

Everyone has their fair share of issues, personal or otherwise, you can't easily put a ranking on pain and suffering concerning death.
That's a pain we all share to the depths which are probably the same. A dead person won't come back to life, not to mention, none of us over here know when Mother Nature will hit next (through she throws quakes at us every week).
But then we also did get the two super strong typhoons in September which also caused flooding in some places and killed people, so yeah, She's taking a piece outta everyone at present.

In someways, it's still an edgy situation...
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Last edited by Mystique; 2011-10-03 at 18:57.
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Old 2011-10-03, 20:55   Link #2377
andyjay729
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TinyRedLeaf did raise some good points: there wasn't much buzz at all about the Tibetan quake or Filipino typhoons, devastating as they were. One could be tempted to say this is all another example of Westerners believing disasters in poor countries "don't matter as much", but then look at all the attention focused on Haiti after its horrible quake.

But then 2011 has been a pretty rocky year around the globe. Just a month after the Japanese disaster, America was of course hit by a huge series of tornadoes and floods (nowhere near as devastating as the tsunami obviously, but of course the major disaster of the moment is always going to get center stage in its home country). Then Osama was captured, which was a positive moment but still "distracted" much of the media from natural disasters for the moment. Then Europe's economy started melting down, attracting their media's attention, the Libyan civil war wore on, Rupert Murdoch went on trial, America was downgraded by Moody's, riots broke out across Britain, New York was threatened by a hurricane...

It's unfortunate, but I think we all know that the media does "prioritize" big stories, especially the biggest ones of the moment in their native countries, and they often overexaggerate. Rest assured though, that Japan has never been far from my thoughts since March 11. I'm kinda miffed that the planned benefit show a continent away from any radiation worries was cancelled, but we can all show our support for this show coming up in about a month. (If they put out a CD or DVD, it might make a nice Christmas present.)

Meanwhile, as far I know, Port-au-Prince is still in ruins almost two years later, and you never see any news retrospectives on that. When I first heard about the Japanese quake, one of the first things I thought was, "Well, at least they'll be in better shape than Haiti." And yes, the situation in Japan is nothing compared to Haiti, but the devastation still boggles the mind. I don't know if America has ever suffered a natural disaster with a five-digit death toll. (The 1900 hurricane in Galveston, Texas might be the only contender there. Why yes, I do have too much time on my hands.) Going back to "story priorities"and the media "scale of importance", I wonder that if a 9.0 earthquake hit Southern California (as They say is likely to happen Very Soon Now), how long would it hold a place in world consciousness? Yes, we're all forced to remember 9/11 over and over again, but of course it was a human-caused act of terrorism. Obviously no one is to blame for an earthquake (well, maybe Haruhi).
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Old 2011-10-04, 03:51   Link #2378
Jinto
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Hey, if he made a few dozen individuals feel like the world hadn't forgotten them (they don't see overseas news generally, they just know the tourists have vanished), then as an individual he accomplished his purpose. Like any notion, it takes a tipping point of individuals doing the same thing to fix a macro problem.

If I had the funds I'd be over there yearly... but that's kind of on hold due to some strange disappearance of wealth I had 3 or 4 years ago.
I do not question Enzo's good will. But exactly this tipping point wasn't to be expected. Also I do not know excatly how many tourists are needed to make small/medium businesses profitable... however, for bigger businesses its actually a loss to provide all the services for a single tourist.

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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Tell that to the person who runs a hotel with 6 or 8 rooms, all of which have been empty because of a bunch of preposterous reports on the news.
This sort of reasoning is not rational in my oppinion. In general you cannot blame people for not touring in a country that was hit very resently by a disaster.
This is not about patriotism but common sense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I saw this not just in Tokyo - which was totally safe (apart from aftershocks, but that's just life) but in places like Miyajima, which is comically absurd. You don't think having a little business helps them out? If everyone felt the way you do (and most people did at the time)...
I could imagine some tourists simply don't like the aftershocks.
But I am very convinced that you alone cannot actually make a difference for tourism based businesses. Again, I do not question your dedication, just the rationale behind it.

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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
But since you were pretty much one of the fear-mongers all along, as I recall, I'm not surprised that's your take. To each his own - we make our own choices in this life.
I am a realist, I like to see things as objectively as possible. I know, I am sometimes biased (or overly cautious)... but I would not exactly describe me as a fear monger, because that would include that I talk the situation bad beyond the worst case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf View Post
So, yes again, by all means fly the flag for Japan. But let it not be at the expense of knowing that perhaps, just perhaps, we're being a bit too biased in the way we "spread the love".
That was basically my concern.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
Which, unfortunately, is totally undermined by the reality that global charitable contributions to quake/tsunami relief in Japan were dwarfed by those which came in for comparable disasters like the tsunami in Indonesia. People recognize that Japan is a richer country than most other countries which see the headlines only through natural disasters, and they gave less. Any financial assistance to any region in crisis is a good thing - it's not a contest.
This point of view I do support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
In my view, what Japan needed was not just financial assistance - though that obviously helps too - but to show the world that their country wasn't the crippled, wailing and teeth-gnashing border-to-border nuclear wasteland that was being portrayed in the international media.
Hm, you have a very one-sided view of international media. Not all international media is as lurid/sensationalistic as the american media (though I remember they all were biased and I never had the feeling that any news I read actually had a completely scientifically sound background).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
And you can't fight that kind of ignorance by writing a check. When the Indonesia tsunami hit, my company organized a system for our customers to give financially and raised over $5 million, and I was happy to be a tiny part of implementing that. Different ways of helping, but no one should be encouraged to do nothing because it's always easier to do nothing.
If you understood me that way, then my appologies. I never questioned your good intentions.

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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Perhaps lastly, no matter how 'chivalrous' Enzo seems, the nature of the disaster was unique.
It was a triple hit disaster in a go.
One, 5th biggest quake in human history, that alone is something.
Two, for those who were awake, the entire world sat in their chairs and watched Mother Nature kill/murder/destroy numerous towns and steal up to 20,000 lives and make 100,000 displaced (peeps still are living in refugee camps til this day) and affected a great deal of us in the Eastern region.
Its this morbid sensationalism that I despise the most.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Lastly, this is an anime forum based on Japanese culture.
Who are you two to try and tie in the woes of the rest of the world over the sentiment of one who moved and wanted to do his part to help the communities of a country he loves.
I did not tie the woes of the rest of the world over Enzo's sentiments. I was just saying that his romanticized view on the matter is imo deluted. I still respect him for his good intentions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
The natives have never experienced anything like it and this is a nation that likes to please, if not are famed for being one of the world's greatest 'hosts' for tourists.
For those who stayed, trust me, outta my own personal experience, it meant more than any food or financial donation.
Well, I don't know what people you interact with. But the branch of my company's operations in Japan was very very grateful for the support they got from all over the world - its an international corporation - (financial and technical help).
Its not necessary to be there personally, but by heart. You can trust the people there to survive, they are hard working and strong willed.
However, they are not anywhere as emotional as you it seems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
This is also a country that has learnt to not display their personal feelings, but they spoke about their extreme gratitude and how they'll remember, take into account. That also was far from the norm.

The "group" mentality clicked in and for once, natives were more than happy to not segregate the foreigners of Japan but work together with us as well to help build things if possible since so many fled anyways.
So it meant a lot at the time.
See this is my point... Enzo was there being a tourist. He did not rebuild something or work together with the people there. I hope its just by accident, but you blow things out of proportion if we consider the context, which is being a tourist in Japan - at an admittedly difficult time...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
...
In someways, it's still an edgy situation...
... which, to my regret, is still ongoing since part of it is systemic.

Last edited by Jinto; 2011-10-04 at 12:45.
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Old 2011-10-04, 10:38   Link #2379
Guardian Enzo
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This is truly a depressing conversation, in more ways than I can count. Each to his own opinions, and I wish you the best. Moving on...
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Old 2011-10-04, 11:11   Link #2380
Ithekro
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Human emotions and their reaction are not always rational, and should not always be treated so. Thus compassion (which is not alwas rational) can have a positive effect in localized areas in more far reaching effects than one should rationally believe. Romanticizing such things is human, and sometimes a human responce is much more agreable than a rational responce...when dealing with humans.
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