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Old 2011-03-18, 07:38   Link #1561
Qikz
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Anyone know why they took the TBS stream down?
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Old 2011-03-18, 08:01   Link #1562
TheForsaken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
Too many know-it-alls shouting the loudest.
Everyone here knows who are shouting the loudest.
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Old 2011-03-18, 08:03   Link #1563
Crimrui
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Terrible thing happened, I feel for them. Wish I could do more to help out besides the donation. If my country organized some kind of a trip to help, I would go there and give a hand in an instant, for free of course.
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Old 2011-03-18, 08:13   Link #1564
MikaMiaka
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I haven't caught up on this thread, but I decided that since this is my last night in Tokyo, I might as well post something about my experience here thus far.

I'm from So.Cal, and have been here since January in a study abroad program.

I would choose to stay, but the US has "encouraged" citizens to leave. This means that the 'rents are up in arms, and there is no use but to please them. In a situation such as this, you have to satisfy the concerns of your family.

Everyone is freaking out. The Western news have sensationalized the events, and NHK have been urging calmness in their reporting. There has to be a balance between these two sources.

To tell you the truth, I have traveled far and wide and have not met a more dignified people. There is no looting, no hysterics, no divergence from the norm. The trains have been more quiet, Roponggi has been more subdued, Shibuya has been less lit, but the resiliency of the people have continued on.

There are less lights on at the Lawsons and at the Family Marts due to the rolling blackouts, but people can still see.

There are less supplies at the stores, but people are only taking one of everything as the supplies get diverged to the northeast.

I have not met a culture that can cope with everything, and nothing, all at once.

I love you Tokyo, please get well soon.
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Old 2011-03-18, 08:13   Link #1565
Qikz
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Age: 24


Japanese reactor designer take on the Fukushima situation.
(Once again wrote down the translation)
Spoiler for long:


There's more questions but I need lunch. I wrote this down fast again so sorry if it reads badly. Bolded bits are questions asked by the press.
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Old 2011-03-18, 08:22   Link #1566
Mystique
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Location: In the eastern capital of the islands of the rising suns...
Japan doing what they do best for the kids

Nuclear Boy

What's the deal with not being able to embed youtube videos on here anymore, btw?
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Old 2011-03-18, 08:25   Link #1567
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
200,000 people have been evacuated. It's fair to call an incident that triggers something like that a catastrophy. Especially considering that the country's resources are already stressed beyond their limits.

Comparisons with the tsunami, Chernobyl* or the zombie apocalypse are moot. The question is, how many people will die of cancer due to radiation poising in the next decades. 10, 100, 1000, 10000? The answer is we don't know because we lack the data. Highly irradiated spots have been discovered already beyond the evacuation zone so simply claiming that nothing will happen has no basis.

Too many know-it-alls shouting the loudest. A usual day on the internet.


* On a side note, it irks me to see the same lobbies that have been downplaying Chernobyl ever since it happened are suddenly painting a much darker picture of that event just because it makes Fukushima look so much brighter.
Catastrophe meaning anything over 5 on the INES scale. That would easily warrant a large evacuation of any international aid in the area.

I could respond how many more will die under the rubble of the coastlines while you and others like you act know-it-all over whether the Japanese are doing enough to contain the problem but I won't because it's pointless.

let the workers there do their job of containing the problem.

Screaming that TEPCO are concealing anything, even if they most likely are won't help one bit. If anything, it's fortunate that the situation isn't worse than it is given the state of things there.

Also, I would ask you take a look at readings taken from around the reactor itself before saying anything. The highest reported so far has been 400mSv/h around reactor 3.
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Old 2011-03-18, 08:35   Link #1568
MikaMiaka
I like guavas.
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qikz View Post
Anyone know why they took the TBS stream down?
been trying to figure that out too. they have been showing every press conference but now it's gone. don't know what to make of it. i guess we have to depend on

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/index.html

*shrugs*

also, to monitor radiation, http://ftp.jaist.ac.jp/pub/emergency..._table.do.html

Last edited by MikaMiaka; 2011-03-18 at 09:03. Reason: more info
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Old 2011-03-18, 09:09   Link #1569
j0x
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Japan doing what they do best for the kids

Nuclear Boy

What's the deal with not being able to embed youtube videos on here anymore, btw?
nice video they made the current nuclear problem simple to understand
and about youtube links its just like this
Code:
[ youtube ]<insert unique youtube video code here>[ /youtube ]
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Old 2011-03-18, 09:19   Link #1570
Slice of Life
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Catastrophe meaning anything over 5 on the INES scale. That would easily warrant a large evacuation of any international aid in the area.
Semantics.

Quote:
I could respond how many more will die under the rubble of the coastlines while you and others like you act know-it-all over whether the Japanese are doing enough to contain the problem but I won't because it's pointless.
I have explicitly stated that I don't know enough about the situation. Nor did I say anything for or against the management of accident. Only about the information policy. Please criticize what I wrote not what you wish I wrote.

Quote:
Screaming that TEPCO are concealing anything
I wasn't even talking about Tepco I was talking about the governemt (MEXT to be exact). Read what I write.

Quote:
won't help one bit
Posting in this thread has no effect whatsoever on the situation in Japan in any case. Shall we close it?

Quote:
Also, I would ask you take a look at readings taken from around the reactor itself before saying anything. The highest reported so far has been 400mSv/h around reactor 3.
1. I did
2. It's lethal within a short time period.
3. It doesn't even matter (except for those who have to work in the plant - but even they will avoid such areas and they are protected) because you can always build a fence around it.
4. What does matter is the radiation in the wider area. And not the dosis you take up in one hour but the next 10 years.

I did a back on the envelope calculation for the prefecture with significantly higher radiation measurements we have data for - Ibaraki. The main unknown (to me) is the half life of the isotopes though. Mostly weeks? Few cancer cases. Mostly 30 years? Many, many cancer cases.

Somebody could add some bits and and some more and in the end we'd all be smarter.

But it's not really worth it. Or practical.

Tell 2 people IRL that the sun sets in the west and you get 2 shrugs. Tell it to 2000 people on the internet and you get 1975 shrugs that remain invisible, 20 troll responses and 5 people that are honestly offended by that idea.

Lets continue this discussion in 25 years when the next absolutely safe reactor goes from one "shut up, this will never happen" to the next "shut up, this will never happen" stage in a 24h rhythm.
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Old 2011-03-18, 09:20   Link #1571
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
Highly irradiated spots have been discovered already beyond the evacuation zone so simply claiming that nothing will happen has no basis.
Have a link about this as I haven't seen mentions of hot spots on the ground yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qikz View Post
Anyone know why they took the TBS stream down?
It was only meant to be a limited time thing to help spread information. There is a survey form in the description though that may convince them to continue.
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Old 2011-03-18, 09:28   Link #1572
Qikz
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Join Date: May 2010
Age: 24
I just asked Danny Choo via his twitter and he said the same thing pretty much, they want people to watch TV instead of the internets so they've shut it down. It's kind of annoying for anyone outside of Japan who wants to follow what's happening as NHK's stream is either really far behind or they don't show any of the press conferences.
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Old 2011-03-18, 09:32   Link #1573
TheForsaken
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckmox View Post
nice video they made the current nuclear problem simple to understand
and about youtube links its just like this
Code:
[ youtube ]<insert unique youtube video code here>[ /youtube ]
I found the comments below so amusing

Quote:
TEPCO management should be shot for their unability to act quickly and for stockpiling nuclear fuel in huge amounts without adequate protection. Current counter-measures are complete failure. Power must be given to international experts and huge bounties paid to rescue teams capable of doing anything. I also recommend suicide squad formed from TEPCO management and government workers. They deserve it and should have a chance to redeem what they did.
Quote:
No, This reactor contains at least hundred times more nuclear material than Chernobyl. Also, population density as much, much higher around Fukushima. Worst case will be FARRR bigger in scale than Chernobyl. Millions can lose their home, work, health, some even life.
Quote:
Fools are those who build nuclear stations where they can be both targer of tsunami and earthquake, in country known for frequent occurence of both, and store almost more than 11000 used fuel rods there.
Quote:
Reactors are built this way, steel and concrete fortresses. That's why they cost billions. But still, reactor colling systems failed. Water disappeared. Reactor is getting hotter with every day, all efforts during this week are laughable publicity stunts. They do nothing and wait for unevitable to happen. Try to understand the fact that situation deteriorates with every hour and no one in control to do anything about it. In worst case there will be millions of homeless at least!
Quote:
They have all reasons to worry about their health. Tomorrow wind will change and Tokyo will get a noticeable amount of radiation.
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Old 2011-03-18, 09:47   Link #1574
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
Semantics.



I have explicitly stated that I don't know enough about the situation. Nor did I say anything for or against the management of accident. Only about the information policy. Please criticize what I wrote not what you wish I wrote.


I wasn't even talking about Tepco I was talking about the governemt (MEXT to be exact). Read what I write.



1. I did
2. It's lethal within a short time period.
3. It doesn't even matter (except for those who have to work in the plant - but even they will avoid such areas and they are protected) because you can always build a fence around it.
4. What does matter is the radiation in the wider area. And not the dosis you take up in one hour but the next 10 years.

I did a back on the envelope calculation for the prefecture with significantly higher radiation measurements we have data for - Ibaraki. The main unknown (to me) is the half life of the isotopes though. Mostly weeks? Few cancer cases. Mostly 30 years? Many, many cancer cases.

Somebody could add some bits and and some more and in the end we'd all be smarter.
MEXT don't even have the full picture. Naoto Kan himself was un-informed until an hour later at a critical juncture. 400mSv/H is far from lethal in a short period. The readings you see in the further zones aren't even that. Get your facts straight first before calling others names.

There's a radiation leak at a plant. What do you expect? Of course the surrounding area will be contaminated with rises in cancer rates. But there is nothing so far to suggest there must be a permanent exclusion zone around the plant like that around Chernobyl. More than the 30km anyway. Fukushima itself is at the boundary before cancer risk rises and it's 60km away.

Quote:
Lets continue this discussion in 25 years when the next absolutely safe reactor goes from one "shut up, this will never happen" to the next "shut up, this will never happen" stage in a 24h rhythm.
don't even know what you're trying to get across here. Since where did I say that the reactor was "absolutely safe"?
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Last edited by Cosmic Eagle; 2011-03-18 at 10:08.
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Old 2011-03-18, 10:05   Link #1575
Aquifina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice of Life View Post
I heard it withdrew because of the radiation. In any case, I'm sure the US military has independent means to get the data they want and presses hard on the Japanese government to get access to their data.

You're attacking straw men.
From the NY Times:

The new setbacks emerged as the first readings from American data-collection flights over the plant in northeastern Japan showed that the worst contamination had not spread beyond the 19-mile range of highest concern established by Japanese authorities.

But another day of frantic efforts on Thursday to cool nuclear fuel in the troubled reactors and in the plantís spent-fuel pools resulted in little or no progress, according to United States government officials. The crisis at the plant seemed increasingly to have produced divergent narratives in Washington and Tokyo, with Japanese officials emphasizing the efforts they were making to tame the damaged plant and American officials highlighting the challenges.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/wo...9japan.html?hp

I also saw a report of a USN ship diverting its route due to radiation concerns (although I can't recall if it was the carrier strike group), but other US monitoring seems to indicate that *for the moment* radiation hasn't spilled out of the exclusion zone. With substantial US forces deployed in the general area, and no incentive to downplay things, I think this is about as "independent" an assessment of radiation levels as we can expect.
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Old 2011-03-18, 10:33   Link #1576
Green≤
It's Magic
 
 
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<Units 5 and 6>
・ Emergency Diesel Generator (1 unit) for Unit 6 is operable and supplying electricity to Units 5 and 6. Water injection to the PRV and Spent Fuel Pool through MUWC is progressing
http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/f...20110318-2.pdf

____________


Unit 5 Spent Fuel Pool Water Temperature at 65.5 ℃ at 03:00 March 18th.
Unit 5 Spent Fuel Pool Water Temperature at 66.3 ℃ at 13:00 March 18th.

Unit 6 Spent Fuel Pool Water Temperature at 62.0 ℃ at 03:00 March 18th.
Unit 6 Spent Fuel Pool Water Temperature at 64.0 ℃ at 13:00 March 18th.

____________


<Spent Fuel Storage Facility>
・ It was confirmed that the water level of spent fuel storage pool was maintained full at after 06:00 March 18


<Spent Fuel Shared Storage Facility>
・ As of 11:19 March 18th, the water temperature in the pool is 55℃.

http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/f...20110318-2.pdf
http://www.nisa.meti.go.jp/english/f...20110318-3.pdf

Last edited by Green≤; 2011-03-18 at 10:36. Reason: Copy paste typo on the unit 5 time recording
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Old 2011-03-18, 10:43   Link #1577
omimon
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^Wait are those temperatures good?
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Old 2011-03-18, 10:46   Link #1578
Ithekro
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Below the boiling point of water, so yes that is good.
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Old 2011-03-18, 10:59   Link #1579
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aquifina View Post
From the NY Times:

The new setbacks emerged as the first readings from American data-collection flights over the plant in northeastern Japan showed that the worst contamination had not spread beyond the 19-mile range of highest concern established by Japanese authorities.

But another day of frantic efforts on Thursday to cool nuclear fuel in the troubled reactors and in the plantís spent-fuel pools resulted in little or no progress, according to United States government officials. The crisis at the plant seemed increasingly to have produced divergent narratives in Washington and Tokyo, with Japanese officials emphasizing the efforts they were making to tame the damaged plant and American officials highlighting the challenges.


http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/19/wo...9japan.html?hp

I also saw a report of a USN ship diverting its route due to radiation concerns (although I can't recall if it was the carrier strike group), but other US monitoring seems to indicate that *for the moment* radiation hasn't spilled out of the exclusion zone. With substantial US forces deployed in the general area, and no incentive to downplay things, I think this is about as "independent" an assessment of radiation levels as we can expect.
If the carrier has moved to avoid radiation plumes blowing out to sea, it's only natural I would think.
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Old 2011-03-18, 11:01   Link #1580
RRW
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Originally Posted by omimon View Post
^Wait are those temperatures good?
actually bad thing because its reactor 5&6 which doesn't have problem before
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