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Old 2011-03-16, 19:47   Link #81
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
Some people have been talking about total destruction and Fallout due to the nuclear meltdowns...

Any opinions?
They're idiots and you should stop listening to them as well as stop spreading the absolute hogwash being proliferated.

I'm getting really disgusted at the level of *stupid* I'm seeing in forums, news, and people babbling. Knowledge is not locked away - many people seem to actively avoid it.

I guess they'd rather scream, "She's a witch!!!!!" (MPFC Holy Grail... more true than funny)

Last edited by Vexx; 2011-03-16 at 22:19.
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Old 2011-03-16, 19:58   Link #82
Kuroi Hadou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
They're idiots and you should stop listening to them as well as stop spreading the absolute hogwash being proliferated.

I'm getting really disgusted at the level of *stupid* I'm seeing in forums, news, and people babbling. Knowledge is not locked away - many people seem to actively avoid it.
At least a few of us here are somewhat knowledgeable.
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Old 2011-03-16, 20:02   Link #83
GundamFan0083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
They're idiots and you should stop listening to them as well as stop spreading the absolute hogwash being proliferated.

I'm getting really disgusted at the level of *stupid* I'm seeing in forums, news, and people babbling. Knowledge is not locked away - many people seem to actively avoid it.
Agreed.

The level of hype and paranoia surrounding the discussion over this nuclear incident is maddening.

I know you already know this Vexx, but I'll repeat for others who may not.

Nuclear reactors DO NOT EXPLODE like nuclear bombs.
They don't use the same kind of Uranium fuel.

Bombs use enriched U235 that is made artificially via a cyclotron.
Power plants use refined U238 which CANNOT reach the level of supercriticality required for the Fission-Fusion-Fission reaction needed for a nuclear detonation.
Not only that, the nuclear fuel must be "crushed" in order for the reaction to happen.
The explosions at the reactor plants is due to pressure build up because of the steam generated by the overheating fuel rods.
The main danger of a meltdown is poisoning of the soil, and water table if the reaction gets out of control and a molten blob of radioactive material sinks into the Earth below the nuclear reactor (that's what happened at Chernobyl).

There won't be any "mushroom cloud" over Japan due to an atomic or thermo-nuclear explosion.

The "radiation cloud" is a possibility if the steam (from the heavy-water used to cool the fuel rods, starts boiling away) jets up into the upper atmosphere.
That can cause long term effects such as cancer and/or other disease, but it's not the equivalent of actual fallout from a nuclear bomb.

I hope this clears up some of the lies and disinfo running around.
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Old 2011-03-16, 20:02   Link #84
mecharobot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by papermario13689 View Post
Some people have been talking about total destruction and Fallout due to the nuclear meltdowns...

Any opinions?
It's going to happen, just like those "some people" said. I suggest that you grab canned food, iodine pills, bottled water, a raincoat and hide in the basement for as long as you can.
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Old 2011-03-16, 20:41   Link #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GundamFan0083 View Post
.

I hope this clears up some of the lies and disinfo running around.
I think most posters here are savvy enough to agree with you and know this.

If not, they are at least fortunate to be on a board where reason is highly valued.

But for the general public, popular media has always portrayed failing nuclear stations going up in a mushroom cloud.

They have trivialized nuclear energy materials in such a way that makes it seems as if the stuff will mushroom on you if you sneeze near it.

To hell with concepts such as critical mass.

Every thing is easy to blow up in Hollywood.

@Kuroi Hadou


@Vallen Chaos Valiant

I'm not missing it. As an engineer I am pro-atomic. However I am always looking at things from the common person view point as opposed to one who is int the know.

I tell people that Nuclear power will save humanity bundles, but the arguments against it are pretty solid... because we can't clean it up if it spills or pops the lid.

In my country turbines and boilers have exploded at power plants... I think twice in the last 25 years and it was an easy rebuild after cleanup.

When a atomic plant goes hiisssss..... what do we do then ?

I have never been able to win a debate on that point.
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Old 2011-03-16, 20:53   Link #86
Kuroi Hadou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsubo View Post
I tell people that Nuclear power will save humanity bundles, but the arguments against it are pretty solid... because we can't clean it up if it spills or pops the lid.

When a atomic plant goes hiisssss..... what do we do then ?

I have never been able to win a debate on that point.
Did you know that the longer the half-life, the less radioactive the material is? And that you're actually more likely to die in one of the eight most populous cities of today due to pollution than if you actually lived at the hypocenter of Chernobyl now?
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Old 2011-03-16, 20:56   Link #87
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Three Mile Island seems fine. They are even talking about moving the old melted reactor for some useful purpose.
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Old 2011-03-16, 20:58   Link #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Three Mile Island seems fine. They are even talking about moving the old melted reactor for some useful purpose.
Three Mile Island actually released almost zero amounts of radiation. It was fine just a few days after it happened.
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Old 2011-03-16, 21:30   Link #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsubo View Post
When a atomic plant goes hiisssss..... what do we do then ?

I have never been able to win a debate on that point.
Ask people what they feel about electricity rationing.
Ask them what they will feel if they could only have mains power for 6 hours a day, and if you go over the daily quota you get shut down. All the while paying MORE for the power than they currently do.

Powerplants are not for decoration. Tell the complainers to live without power for a month, and see how they fare.

The analogy is that you can't die from a car accident if you never leave your house. But is that a real option?
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Old 2011-03-16, 21:31   Link #90
Kuroi Hadou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Ask people what they feel about electricity rationing.
Ask them what they will feel if they could only have mains power for 6 hours a day, and if you go over the daily quota you get shut down. All the while paying MORE for the power than they currently do.
Don't forget to mention that no power means no computer, which means no internet and no way to recharge their cell phones.
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Old 2011-03-16, 21:39   Link #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zetsubo View Post
I tell people that Nuclear power will save humanity bundles, but the arguments against it are pretty solid... because we can't clean it up if it spills or pops the lid.
We've been using nuclear power for decades now. The two biggest "meltdowns" were due to engineering issues and human error. Both are now very old news and technology and understanding of nuclear power have both come a long way. That doesn't mean that it is "safe", but nothing is. All you can do is minimize any potential, foreseeable problems, and if something does go wrong, fix it the best you can and re-engineer future iterations with what you've learned.

What's irritating about the criticism of Japans nuclear plants is that it took an absolutely massive earthquake and huge tsunami to cause the damage. That's not human error, these plants were built with such things in mind. However, I don't care how amazing you engineer something the force of nature is nothing to scoff at. That the plants affected even have the chance of being prevented from becoming worse is a testament to how well built they were considering what they were hit with.
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Old 2011-03-16, 21:55   Link #92
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I got an update on the injuries and radiation contamination, so you guys can start judging things for yourself:


Quote:
Injuries

* 2 TEPCO employees have minor injuries
* 2 subcontractor employees are injured, one person suffered broken legs and one person whose condition is unknown was transported to the hospital
* 2 people are missing
* 2 people were 'suddenly taken ill'
* 2 TEPCO employees were transported to hospital during the time of donning respiratory protection in the control centre
* 4 people (2 TEPCO employees, 2 subcontractor employees) sustained minor injuries due to the explosion at unit 1 on 11 March and were transported to the hospital
* 11 people (4 TEPCO employees, 3 subcontractor employees and 4 Japanese civil defense workers) were injured due to the explosion at unit 3 on 14 March

Radiological Contamination

* 17 people (9 TEPCO employees, 8 subcontractor employees) suffered from deposition of radioactive material to their faces, but were not taken to the hospital because of low levels of exposure
* One worker suffered from significant exposure during 'vent work,' and was transported to an offsite center
* 2 policemen who were exposed to radiation were decontaminated
* Firemen who were exposed to radiation are under investigation
Source.
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Old 2011-03-16, 21:58   Link #93
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I have three questions here for people here with expertise on the topic. :

1. In a worst-case scenario, how far could the radiation spread?

2. In a worst-case scenario, what would be the impact of that radiation?

3. In a worst-case scenario, what would be the impact to Japan itself?


Any any all answers would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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Old 2011-03-16, 22:07   Link #94
Kuroi Hadou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I have three questions here for people here with expertise on the topic.
Well I'm not an expert, but I'll do my best to hopefully provide some knowledge. I'll use Chernobyl as the base, since that is basically what the "worst-case scenario" is, but keep in mind that there will be differences if Fukushima does indeed have a meltdown due to differing reactor designs and fuel composition.

Quote:
1. In a worse-case scenario, how far could the radiation spread?
Chernobyl's radiation blanket spread to an estimated total of about 28,000 square kilometers.

Quote:
2. In a worse-case scenario, what would be the impact of the radiation?
Those within a mere 30 km of Chernobyl experienced radiation doses sufficient enough to result in between a 1:6666.67 - 1:133.33 chance of contracting a fatal cancer within 10 days for adults, 1:2000 - 1:28.57 for children.

Quote:
3. In a worse-case scenario, what would be the impact to Japan itself
I talked about this one here.

If you want sources for the figures, just ask. I hope I was able to provide at least some answers.
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Old 2011-03-16, 22:17   Link #95
Random32
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I think I have said this several times before

Fukushima != Chernobyl

The accident most similar to Fukushima is Three Mile Island. Of course, Fukushima is much larger than Three Mile Island. I'm really tired right now, I'll try to scale the numbers up tomorrow if no one beats me to them or I forget/too lazy.
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Old 2011-03-16, 22:21   Link #96
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Basically it is Three Mile Island, just with multiple reactors.
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Old 2011-03-16, 22:22   Link #97
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Basically it is Three Mile Island, just with multiple reactors.
And Three Mile Island is a looooooooooooooooooooong way away from Chernobyl.
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Old 2011-03-16, 23:02   Link #98
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroi Hadou View Post
Well I'm not an expert, but I'll do my best to hopefully provide some knowledge. I'll use Chernobyl as the base, since that is basically what the "worst-case scenario" is, but keep in mind that there will be differences if Fukushima does indeed have a meltdown due to differing reactor designs and fuel composition.
Thanks a lot for your answers.


Quote:
Chernobyl's radiation blanket spread to an estimated total of about 28,000 square kilometers.
That's... quite the distance.

Anybody here want to estimate the points on the globe for the farthest reaches of that spread?

These are just very rough guesses in mind, but I'm thinking... Manitoba, Canada (going east); Kansas, America (going east); Iraq (going west)?

I doubt I have much to worry about (when it comes to my own personal safety) in Newfoundland, Canada, but I just wanted to get a good idea of the full geographical scope of the impacts of this.


Quote:
Those within a mere 30 km of Chernobyl experienced radiation doses sufficient enough to result in between a 1:6666.67 - 1:133.33 chance of contracting a fatal cancer within 10 days for adults, 1:2000 - 1:28.57 for children.
Nasty.


Quote:
I talked about this one here.
Wow, that's terrible. You really have to feel for the people of Japan right now.




Quote:

I hope I was able to provide at least some answers.
Yes, you did. You gave me a pretty good picture of everything. Thanks!
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Old 2011-03-16, 23:29   Link #99
Ithekro
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Sigh....it is highly, repeat, highly unlikely that this could in any way get even close to anything like Chernobyl. It just isn't that type of reactor.
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Old 2011-03-16, 23:37   Link #100
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I have three questions here for people here with expertise on the topic. :

1. In a worst-case scenario, how far could the radiation spread?

2. In a worst-case scenario, what would be the impact of that radiation?

3. In a worst-case scenario, what would be the impact to Japan itself?


Any any all answers would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Why only ask for the worst-case scenario?

Technically, the REAL worst case scenario is a meteorite landing on your house and killing you.

Why not ask what is the likely scenario instead?
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