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**james0246** · 2012-12-31, 14:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant

Other than saying "the legends were true", I am not sure what else they would have said. In those ancient times without Internet, you would keep seeing and hearing things you never comprehended before.

It was a stupendous, amazing and legendary event that more or less amounted to the dawrfs saying 'well that happened, what's for dinner? '. The giants just showed up, did their thing and then nothing. The goblins had a greater impact on the story and they were nothing more than fodder for Bilbo to get to Gollum.

Ithekro · 2012-12-31, 14:19

Well to be fair, the dwarves have seen a dragon before. (That and it was basically a single line out of the novel where it is hard to see if what they are seeing is real, or just figurative. They made no serious mention of it afterwards regardless, save maybe in tales. And even then....the trolls and goblins lasted longer and the dwarves and hobbit could act with them. Giants? They heed not, nor are effected by the lesser creatures of the world. Even Gandalf makes very little of comments on Giants in all versions of the wizard)

Plus...dwarves. Food first, death and worry later.

**james0246** · 2012-12-31, 15:19

What's the point of going on an adventure if you never comment about how amazing or terrifying the adventure is? The giants were treated so mundane as to make them no better than a fallen branch blocking their path.

Ithekro · 2012-12-31, 15:42

Well technically, only Bilbo is on an Adventure. The Dwarves are just heading home to retake the mountain (a quest). What happens between point A and point B means little to them if it doesn't achieve their goal (or feed them).

And Gandalf is Gandalf. He's way older that anybody and seen way more than anybody. He's technically an "angel" in terms of rank in the world.

Vexx · 2012-12-31, 15:43

Personally, I had always taken the "giant" sequence as just a really nasty mountain storm with avalanches. We were just getting a dwarven mythic explanation of it in the book (imo). Peter Jackson took it literally (as some readers did).

Actual stone giants .... errrrrrr, just doesn't seem to fit in the LOTR universe well (and it was another instance in the film of dwarves engaging in Wiley Coyote cartoon physics in surviving it). This was the early part of the story when Tolkien couldn't seem to decide whether he was writing a children's book or not.

Not that I think much of children's books that treat their readers as if anything can be pulled out of thin air for a cheap "o wow". Seriously, I love "The Hobbit" but I'm completely aware that it is a very awkward work in some ways.

Ithekro · 2012-12-31, 17:03

The novel mostly reads like a childrens novel until I think someplace in Mirkwood, or possibly after that. There is less singing and such around that point.

I can see Jackson taking it literally due to his concept artists who go for style. Artist will make a metaphoric concept seem real, so a director, in seeing that would go "Let's do that. It would look cool and dramatic".

GDB · 2012-12-31, 18:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ithekro

"Let's do that. It would look cool and dramatic".

I think that's the main thing. Just a big thunder storm wouldn't do much, and it wouldn't be as strong an allusion to the trouble on the snowy cliff edge from Fellowship.

Xagzan · 2012-12-31, 18:45

I'm a literal person myself. If the text says "stone giants," I see 'em as stone giants. If it says "and he fell upon the towers of Thangorodrim, and they were broken in his ruin," I'm going to see Ancalagon as a dragon colossal enough to crush three mountains. It is a fantasy world after all. To intepret such things as metaphor (unless the author elsewhere says they are, but I don't remember if Tolkien did), just representing natural, realistic occurrences rather than being something truly fantastic, is so mundane and dull to my mind.

Quote:

Originally Posted by james0246

What's the point of going on an adventure if you never comment about how amazing or terrifying the adventure is?

To get their gold and home back. I don't think making comments ranks very high on their adventure to-do list

It hardly seems like a big deal though. Maybe they talked about it together at some other point; we didn't see them 24/7 after all, it's a movie. And really, what do we need to hear them say?

"So...how bout those giants?"
"Yeah, they were something."
"Sure were."
"I agree."

I don't think we really needed for them to talk about it.

Kafriel · 2012-12-31, 18:50

They could whine about it...dwarves look like they can do that with ease :P

Vexx · 2012-12-31, 20:36

Just to clarify, I don't object to the giants, that was just a matter of interpretation the text. I only objected to the dwarves/hobbit's careening about far past the level that "blood and bone" could handle. Some hyperbole is mythic, etc but over and over again and it starts gonging.

Mr Hat and Clogs · 2012-12-31, 22:43

I do agree about the over the top nature of some scenes (the escape from the Goblins just got whackier the longer it went, and the giants I think could have been just observed fighting rather than what happened), but just to throw a bit of a mind screw in the works, look at it this way... what we are seeing is what Bilbo is writing in the book and his recollection. So what we can take from this is Bilbo loves to embellish his stories to the ninth degree, and is a lying sneaking kleptomaniac. :P

Ithekro · 2012-12-31, 22:51

That and Bilbo revised it a few times...as did Frodo I think.

(That and if I recall Tolkien changed it a bit to fit the Lord of the Rings, the Revised version having a passage about Gandalf sort of forcing the truth about what happened with Gollum out of Bilbo...the original version being what he told the Dwarves and possibly Frodo originally).

CJ_Walker · 2013-01-02, 00:52

[QUOTE=ChainLegacy;4492866(called Eru in The Silmarillion),).[/QUOTE]

Eru Illuvatar

. . .yeah I read the simalrilion too. . .that is his hardest book to read out of all of them. . .

Renegade334 · 2013-04-02, 02:53

The Simarillion is to the history of Middle Earth what the ancient testament is to the Bible - the Genesis + everything that came until the birth and rise of an eventual savior. There are more storylines in it than in LotR, more characters, lost locations (most of the area in which things take place was destroyed by natural cataclysms before the events of LotR), etc. It's not a streamlined storyline like in the LotR saga, so it's no surprise that it's harder to read. Not to mention that by nature it's more steeped in old European (Norse, Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, etc, etc) legends than LotR ever was, so the writing style is the only things that feels quite different - the entire atmosphere is, too.

Anyway, it's not an update, but Peter Jackson did a video Q&A with fans - and it looks like there are scenes from the Desolation of Smaug (you can see Thranduil - and is that Legolas?) in it.

YouTube

http://youtu.be/MvF8bpowywI

Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?

2012-12-31, 14:19	Link #342
Ithekro Space Battleship Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 35	Well to be fair, the dwarves have seen a dragon before. (That and it was basically a single line out of the novel where it is hard to see if what they are seeing is real, or just figurative. They made no serious mention of it afterwards regardless, save maybe in tales. And even then....the trolls and goblins lasted longer and the dwarves and hobbit could act with them. Giants? They heed not, nor are effected by the lesser creatures of the world. Even Gandalf makes very little of comments on Giants in all versions of the wizard) Plus...dwarves. Food first, death and worry later. __________________

2012-12-31, 15:42	Link #344
Ithekro Space Battleship Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 35	Well technically, only Bilbo is on an Adventure. The Dwarves are just heading home to retake the mountain (a quest). What happens between point A and point B means little to them if it doesn't achieve their goal (or feed them). And Gandalf is Gandalf. He's way older that anybody and seen way more than anybody. He's technically an "angel" in terms of rank in the world. __________________

2012-12-31, 15:43	Link #345
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 55	Personally, I had always taken the "giant" sequence as just a really nasty mountain storm with avalanches. We were just getting a dwarven mythic explanation of it in the book (imo). Peter Jackson took it literally (as some readers did). Actual stone giants .... errrrrrr, just doesn't seem to fit in the LOTR universe well (and it was another instance in the film of dwarves engaging in Wiley Coyote cartoon physics in surviving it). This was the early part of the story when Tolkien couldn't seem to decide whether he was writing a children's book or not. Not that I think much of children's books that treat their readers as if anything can be pulled out of thin air for a cheap "o wow". Seriously, I love "The Hobbit" but I'm completely aware that it is a very awkward work in some ways. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Light Novel series Volume 3 in progress; Vol. 3 ch. 04 released) ((thanks for reading))

2012-12-31, 17:03	Link #346
Ithekro Space Battleship Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 35	The novel mostly reads like a childrens novel until I think someplace in Mirkwood, or possibly after that. There is less singing and such around that point. I can see Jackson taking it literally due to his concept artists who go for style. Artist will make a metaphoric concept seem real, so a director, in seeing that would go "Let's do that. It would look cool and dramatic". __________________

2012-12-31, 18:50	Link #349
Kafriel Senior Guest Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Athens (GMT+2) Age: 24	They could whine about it...dwarves look like they can do that with ease :P __________________

2012-12-31, 15:19	Link #343
james0246 Senior Member Moderator Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: East Cupcake	What's the point of going on an adventure if you never comment about how amazing or terrifying the adventure is? The giants were treated so mundane as to make them no better than a fallen branch blocking their path.

2012-12-31, 20:36	Link #350
Vexx Obey the Darkly Cute ... Author Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: On the whole, I'd rather be in Kyoto ... Age: 55	Just to clarify, I don't object to the giants, that was just a matter of interpretation the text. I only objected to the dwarves/hobbit's careening about far past the level that "blood and bone" could handle. Some hyperbole is mythic, etc but over and over again and it starts gonging. __________________ "It Really IS Rocket Science", Light Novel series Volume 3 in progress; Vol. 3 ch. 04 released) ((thanks for reading))

2012-12-31, 22:43	Link #351
Mr Hat and Clogs Troublemaker Fanclub Join Date: Apr 2007 Age: 29	I do agree about the over the top nature of some scenes (the escape from the Goblins just got whackier the longer it went, and the giants I think could have been just observed fighting rather than what happened), but just to throw a bit of a mind screw in the works, look at it this way... what we are seeing is what Bilbo is writing in the book and his recollection. So what we can take from this is Bilbo loves to embellish his stories to the ninth degree, and is a lying sneaking kleptomaniac. :P __________________

2012-12-31, 22:51	Link #352
Ithekro Space Battleship Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Republic of California Age: 35	That and Bilbo revised it a few times...as did Frodo I think. (That and if I recall Tolkien changed it a bit to fit the Lord of the Rings, the Revised version having a passage about Gandalf sort of forcing the truth about what happened with Gollum out of Bilbo...the original version being what he told the Dwarves and possibly Frodo originally). __________________

2013-01-02, 00:52	Link #353
CJ_Walker Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Los Angeles, California Age: 28	[QUOTE=ChainLegacy;4492866(called Eru in The Silmarillion),).[/QUOTE] Eru Illuvatar . . .yeah I read the simalrilion too. . .that is his hardest book to read out of all of them. . .

2013-04-02, 02:53	Link #354
Renegade334 Exitus Acta Probat Graphic Designer Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: At Dream's End Age: 27	The Simarillion is to the history of Middle Earth what the ancient testament is to the Bible - the Genesis + everything that came until the birth and rise of an eventual savior. There are more storylines in it than in LotR, more characters, lost locations (most of the area in which things take place was destroyed by natural cataclysms before the events of LotR), etc. It's not a streamlined storyline like in the LotR saga, so it's no surprise that it's harder to read. Not to mention that by nature it's more steeped in old European (Norse, Anglo-Saxon, Germanic, etc, etc) legends than LotR ever was, so the writing style is the only things that feels quite different - the entire atmosphere is, too. Anyway, it's not an update, but Peter Jackson did a video Q&A with fans - and it looks like there are scenes from the Desolation of Smaug (you can see Thranduil - and is that Legolas?) in it. YouTube http://youtu.be/MvF8bpowywI Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload? __________________ << -- Click to enter my GFX thread.