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Old 2013-08-01, 13:56   Link #521
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Very bad. The system is dead, hate to say it. Nintendo won't pack it in though, pulling the console would actually be worse. But you can damn well be sure that they're accelerating the development of the Wii U's successor. It's a tainted brand now, and they've mishandled it to an incredible degree.
Nintendo still hasn't changed their financial outlook for FY2013. I don't know if it's just a matter of stubborness or that they really think that Zelda and Mario are going to save the Wii U or what, but it's not a very good sign. I hope that they understand what kind of position the console is in, and are taking the proper lessons to heart. Either way, it's certain that Nintendo will ride the Wii U train until they're ready to announce the replacement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Nintendo should be tapping the best strength remaining to them, which is their software. It's the only reason the 3DS has been able to find traction, because the hardware isn't compelling enough to draw in buyers.
I think that the 3DS does have pretty compelling hardware - it might not be too spectacular from a technological standpoint, but it's definitely a step up from the DS and the PSP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
The Wii U will help them grasp HD development, which they seem to be doing with remarkable speed, and I believe they'll coast on the system for as long as possible until they can switch both platforms over to something new in a few years. I wouldn't be surprised if they debuted a "third pillar" hardware device and leaked some info on a new console, like they did with the DS and "Revolution" when the Gamecube turned out to be a market failure.
Without a sea change in attitude when it comes to console design and third party relations, I think that Nintendo's situation won't be significantly improved. A shakeup in Nintendo's management would be a good first step in that sea change.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Urzu 7
If Nintendo wants to avoid this system becoming a failure, here is what they do: When Mario Kart 8 launches and is sold individually on disc, they sell a Mario Kart 8 bundle with the 32 GB Wii U at the same price a 32 GB model was already going for. When SSB hits Wii U and sells on disc individually, they sell a SSB bundle with a 32 GB Wii U for the same price as the Mario Kart 8 bundle. Possibly sell both bundles in holiday season 2014 so people can choose from one or the other. For holiday 2013, they sell a NSMB U bundle with a 32 GB Wii U for $300.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Witch of Uncertainty View Post
In other words, I think they would have benefitted by releasing it at the same time as Xbox One/PS4 (or developed the games earlier).
Either way, the Wii U is in a shabby position, and I truly think it's a shame.
In these hypothetical situations, who do you envision as the buyers of the Wii U?
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Old 2013-08-01, 14:54   Link #522
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
Nintendo still hasn't changed their financial outlook for FY2013. I don't know if it's just a matter of stubborness or that they really think that Zelda and Mario are going to save the Wii U or what, but it's not a very good sign. I hope that they understand what kind of position the console is in, and are taking the proper lessons to heart. Either way, it's certain that Nintendo will ride the Wii U train until they're ready to announce the replacement.
Well it's possible they're banking on continued 3DS growth combined with a boost for the Wii U during the holidays to meet that target. I think they've recognized the system is a flop, of course it would be company and career suicide to just straight up admit that though.

As I mentioned before though, it does seem strange that they aren't rushing as urgently to rescue the console the same way they did the 3DS. I understand the wisdom behind not simply throwing money at the problem, but it really does feel like they rushed the Wii U to market as a response to the Wii dropping off so rapidly.

And continuing what I've said before, I think the system design is sound, the concept at least. It doesn't really seem like it but the tablet really is a very convenient feature. I would have changed a lot of things about the design of the Wii U but the tablet, even though it's not revolutionary, is really one of the best things about the system once you get used to what it can do.


Quote:
I think that the 3DS does have pretty compelling hardware - it might not be too spectacular from a technological standpoint, but it's definitely a step up from the DS and the PSP.
It is a step up, but like the Wii --> Wii U, the DS --> 3DS hardware choices make these systems feel more like extensions of the older hardware rather than entirely new machines. I think that drives a lot of the consumer confusion, especially when the new "features" feel more like addons rather than a new piece of hardware built around a core concept.

This is where Nintendo's messaging has failed, really. Building successors that closely resemble the previous hardware, with similar branding, without emphasizing what is different and why people should care....that's really hurt them.

While I don't think the DS is a tainted brand, due to the efforts to rescue the 3DS, the Wii brand definitely needs to be retired.

Quote:
Without a sea change in attitude when it comes to console design and third party relations, I think that Nintendo's situation won't be significantly improved. A shakeup in Nintendo's management would be a good first step in that sea change.
I agree with the first statement. The second...not so much. Nintendo is restructuring and changing quite a bit. I think this is just a period where they simply stretched themselves too thin, because they needed to. Supporting two consoles almost single handed in addition to massive corporate restructuring, relocating, and hiring....all that expansion is going to have some big growing pains. The Wii U and 3DS almost feel like transition systems, designed to have some presence in the market as the old flagships are dying off while the company refocuses their efforts toward whatever future projects they're working on.

They definitely walk that fine line between "these guys are idiots" and "these guys are geniuses".

Quote:
In these hypothetical situations, who do you envision as the buyers of the Wii U?
My family ditched cable last year. We needed something that could play games and media in the living room. The tablet works great as a remote, web surfing device, and game controller. While I do enjoy Nintendo games a lot, I didn't pick a PS3 or 360 due to reliability issues and future proofing, since the next gen is around the corner.

We don't need a blu-ray player, since we don't buy/rent them and it's cheaper to just buy a stand alone now if we really wanted to (DVD works fine for rentals). And we didn't want to spend money for Live just to watch Netflix. If it's not flash based, I can web stream it (seriously the web browser is ridiculously well designed), and I can stream all media from my PC and listen to Pandora (it does require third party software though). The system is surprisingly capable....1080p anime streaming on the Wii U is awesome. ^^ And I can navigate it all with the tablet, even from a different room, even when the television is turned off.

Plus it's fully compatible with the Wii, including the Wii Virtual Console, and of course the Wii U games, VC, and eshop titles.

If it weren't for the lack of third party support, it'd be a pretty sweet system. =\
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Old 2013-08-01, 15:28   Link #523
Dextro
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The Wii U premium pack (with Nintendoland) is currently retailing for 280€ (normal price: 350€) on a local shop and it's seriously tempting me due to that off-screen play feature.

The only thing holding me back is the lack of exclusives I want to play. I didn't own a Wii but even most of the exclusives for that console ended up being ported to consoles like the PS3 or even the Vita.

What would you say are the must have games for someone who didn't get the previous Wii?
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Old 2013-08-01, 22:48   Link #524
4Tran
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
Well it's possible they're banking on continued 3DS growth combined with a boost for the Wii U during the holidays to meet that target. I think they've recognized the system is a flop, of course it would be company and career suicide to just straight up admit that though.
The forecast I referred to was that the Wii U would sell 9 million units in FY2013. With fewer than 300,000 units sold in Q1, that means that there would have to be over 8,700,000(!) sales between the end of June to the end of March. This goal was first declared in March, and I think that most observers were surprised that it hasn't been revised to reflect the sales figures.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
As I mentioned before though, it does seem strange that they aren't rushing as urgently to rescue the console the same way they did the 3DS. I understand the wisdom behind not simply throwing money at the problem, but it really does feel like they rushed the Wii U to market as a response to the Wii dropping off so rapidly.
I don't think that there's any less panic over the state of the Wii U. The difference is that there's a lot fewer things that Nintendo can do to help the Wii U. The 3DS was in much better shape and it didn't have much danger of losing third-party support.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
It is a step up, but like the Wii --> Wii U, the DS --> 3DS hardware choices make these systems feel more like extensions of the older hardware rather than entirely new machines. I think that drives a lot of the consumer confusion, especially when the new "features" feel more like addons rather than a new piece of hardware built around a core concept.
The difference is where the customer base is coming from. From the PS360, the Wii U offers very little, while the 3DS offered quite a bit for DS and PSP gamers. Without offering anything better than what the buyer already has, it's really easy to pass on a possible purchase.

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Originally Posted by Solace View Post
I agree with the first statement. The second...not so much. Nintendo is restructuring and changing quite a bit. I think this is just a period where they simply stretched themselves too thin, because they needed to. Supporting two consoles almost single handed in addition to massive corporate restructuring, relocating, and hiring....all that expansion is going to have some big growing pains. The Wii U and 3DS almost feel like transition systems, designed to have some presence in the market as the old flagships are dying off while the company refocuses their efforts toward whatever future projects they're working on.

They definitely walk that fine line between "these guys are idiots" and "these guys are geniuses".
Nintendo's business model with the Wii U doesn't work. If that model is indicative of the way the company deals with the console market, then it's pretty much doomed to failure. Can the current management learn from the Wii U's failings? The statements of Iwata and their financial forecasts would say that they cannot.

Internal restructuring and development team building only addresses part of Nintendo's deficiencies. Their main problems are the failures to identify the a target audience and to draw them in, and putrid third-party relations. What steps have Nintendo taken to rectify these?


I'd say that you're enough of an atypical customer that your needs won't apply to very many people. I'm trying to look for more broad categories of buyers like non-gamers, mobile-only gamers, PS360 owners, and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
The Wii U premium pack (with Nintendoland) is currently retailing for 280 (normal price: 350) on a local shop and it's seriously tempting me due to that off-screen play feature.

The only thing holding me back is the lack of exclusives I want to play. I didn't own a Wii but even most of the exclusives for that console ended up being ported to consoles like the PS3 or even the Vita.

What would you say are the must have games for someone who didn't get the previous Wii?
The Project Rainfall (Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower) games would probably be pretty good for you if you like JRPGs. The latter two should be fairly easy to find, but Xenoblade Chronicles is really rare.

Be aware though that your local shop is doing a fire sale just to dump inventory. What's the local price for the Wii? It might be better to pick one of those up.
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Old 2013-08-02, 04:35   Link #525
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
The Wii U premium pack (with Nintendoland) is currently retailing for 280 (normal price: 350) on a local shop and it's seriously tempting me due to that off-screen play feature.

The only thing holding me back is the lack of exclusives I want to play. I didn't own a Wii but even most of the exclusives for that console ended up being ported to consoles like the PS3 or even the Vita.
EARTHBOUND/MOTHER2 is on the european eshop!
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Old 2013-08-02, 17:07   Link #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4Tran View Post
The Project Rainfall (Xenoblade Chronicles, The Last Story, Pandora's Tower) games would probably be pretty good for you if you like JRPGs. The latter two should be fairly easy to find, but Xenoblade Chronicles is really rare.

Be aware though that your local shop is doing a fire sale just to dump inventory. What's the local price for the Wii? It might be better to pick one of those up.
The store is clearly trying to dump the tough to sell Wii U slashing almost 100 off the base price. A Wii is still cheaper at 150 with Mario Kart, I was just very tempted by the off tv thing and since the system is backwards compatible I could pick up the few exclusives from the previous generation that looked interesting. But maybe I'll hold off for the new systems, maybe there's a better deal there.

PS: I also like to collect systems so there's that side of it as well.
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Old 2013-08-02, 18:51   Link #527
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Depending on how soon the next generation console will come, I'm honestly tempted to skip this generation and just get the next one which will most likely be backwards compatible anyway.
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Old 2013-08-04, 18:44   Link #528
Benoit
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
motion controls have proven to be a fad
Motion controls are not a fad. The problem is that most developers don't make good use of them. It didn't help that the Wii's non-MotionPlus motion controls weren't accurate enough to pull off what some developers had in mind.
Quote:
the Gamecube turned out to be a market failure.
What do you mean, a market failure? Not selling enough as hoped? Because the system was profitable despite that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sides View Post
But they didn't cut the cost, without enable further processing boost through those enhancement chips. So in that sense I do think it was designed more efficient than the other consoles at that time.
That doesn't make sense. The option of having chips didn't depend on cutting out full use of Mode 7.
Quote:
If developers wanted to use more power they had the option, but they have to be certain that it would actually benefit the game, and not waste the extra resource.
In practice, it meant that they had to jump through hoops to get the effects they wanted, stifling creativity, as the SNES CPU was already outdated and slow when it got out of manufacturing. The whole point of enabling graphics manipulations in hardware is to take the load off of the CPU and make it easier for developers to use them.

Cartridges were expensive enough as it is, and adding a chip would be even more expensive. As developers were the ones who had to pay for the chips in the end, it really is a cost-cutting measure.

Meanwhile, on the Mega Drive they could do the effects through software because the system was powerful enough.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
What would you say are the must have games for someone who didn't get the previous Wii?
  • BIT.TRIP Complete (also on 3DS)
  • Dragon Quest Swords
  • Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon
  • Ghost Squad (arcade port with more content)
  • Little King's Story
  • No More Heroes (also on PS3)
  • No More Heroes 2
  • Pandora's Tower
  • Rune Factory Frontier
  • Sin and Punishment 2
  • Sonic and the Secret Rings
  • Sonic Colours
  • Super Mario Galaxy
  • Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
  • Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
  • The House of the Dead: Overkill (also on PS3)
  • The Last Story
  • Xenoblade Chronicles
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Old 2013-08-05, 14:02   Link #529
Dextro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
  • BIT.TRIP Complete (also on 3DS)
  • Dragon Quest Swords
  • Final Fantasy Fables: Chocobo's Dungeon
  • Ghost Squad (arcade port with more content)
  • Little King's Story
  • No More Heroes (also on PS3)
  • No More Heroes 2
  • Pandora's Tower
  • Rune Factory Frontier
  • Sin and Punishment 2
  • Sonic and the Secret Rings
  • Sonic Colours
  • Super Mario Galaxy
  • Tales of Symphonia: Dawn of the New World
  • Tatsunoko vs. Capcom
  • The House of the Dead: Overkill (also on PS3)
  • The Last Story
  • Xenoblade Chronicles
Yhep, that seems about in line with what I figured out. Sadly about 1/3 of those are available on other systems I own. Oh well, I may just pick up the older Wii for the jRPG exclusives.
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Old 2013-08-07, 07:41   Link #530
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Sadly about 1/3 of those are available on other systems I own.
I count 18 titles, of which 4 aren't exclusive (and 1 of which is originally an arcade title). That's hardly 1/3. It's closer to 1/5.
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Old 2013-08-07, 11:46   Link #531
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Both Symphonias are being remastered and ported to the PS3, so that's no longer a Nintendo console exclusive.
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Old 2013-08-07, 16:37   Link #532
Dextro
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Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
I count 18 titles, of which 4 aren't exclusive (and 1 of which is originally an arcade title). That's hardly 1/3. It's closer to 1/5.
BIT.TRIP games are on PC, Little King's Story is on the Vita if I'm not mistaken, No More Heroes has both games out on the PS3, Symphonia is getting a PS3 re-release, House of the Dead: Overkill is on PS3 as well.

That makes 6 games out of 18 or exactly 1/3 of the games on the list.

EDIT: BTW another problem I notice with Nintendo systems is the game pricing. They just do not drop ever! Nintendo is infamous for enforcing the games pricing on their systems with an iron grip and I do notice that quite a bit on my DS. There's plenty of games on my wishlist for the system that I still haven't bought simply because deals are virtually non-existent unlike on competing hardware.
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Old 2013-08-07, 17:19   Link #533
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Both Symphonias are being remastered and ported to the PS3, so that's no longer a Nintendo console exclusive.
It's not out yet, and remastered my behind. It's a quick and dirty port. Who knows how it'll turn out. The screenshots Namco-Bandai released certainly don't look convincing.
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Originally Posted by Dextro View Post
Little King's Story is on the Vita if I'm not mistaken
It's a remake, not a port.
Quote:
No More Heroes has both games out on the PS3
Only the first No More Heroes is available on the PS3.
Quote:
BTW another problem I notice with Nintendo systems is the game pricing. They just do not drop ever!
This is only true for Nintendo-developed games. All the other games drop down in price after 6 months on average. The only title on my list you'd have trouble getting at a cheap price is Super Mario Galaxy. Well, that and Xenoblade Chronicles because it was released in a limited quantity. At least it's still available and at a not too expensive price, unlike in North America.
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Old 2013-08-07, 19:52   Link #534
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It's not out yet, and remastered my behind. It's a quick and dirty port. Who knows how it'll turn out. The screenshots Namco-Bandai released certainly don't look convincing.
At the very least, the PS3 version will have the additional content Symphonia PS2 had -- content that was not in the original Gamecube version.

It may not be enough for someone to repurchase it, but it's enough for someone who hasn't played it to purchase the PS3 port over the original.
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Old 2013-08-07, 20:08   Link #535
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
At the very least, the PS3 version will have the additional content Symphonia PS2 had -- content that was not in the original Gamecube version.

It may not be enough for someone to repurchase it, but it's enough for someone who hasn't played it to purchase the PS3 port over the original.
Plus it is SD vs. 720p.
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Old 2013-08-07, 23:03   Link #536
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Originally Posted by Benoit View Post
What do you mean, a market failure? Not selling enough as hoped? Because the system was profitable despite that.
Iwata said if the Wii sold st the level of the GameCube that Nintendo might as well stop making consoles. People like to point at how much money Nintendo was making compared to Sony in the ps2 years for some reason to validate the GameCube. Such rubbish, it got crushed, came in at third place and most of the profit Nintendo made from those years was because of their handhelds.
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Old 2013-08-07, 23:42   Link #537
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You know, GameCube barely was in third place. XBox didn't even sell 4 million units more than GameCube. XBox didn't make a profit for MS and GameCube saw profits. But yeah, GameCube and XBox almost sold the same.
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Old 2013-08-08, 06:06   Link #538
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Eh, another Nintendo Direct that was just fell flat with me. Luckily one of the games I want to play the most on the Wii U comes out soon(The Wonderful 101).
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Old 2013-08-09, 02:03   Link #539
Westlo
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Originally Posted by Urzu 7 View Post
You know, GameCube barely was in third place. XBox didn't even sell 4 million units more than GameCube. XBox didn't make a profit for MS and GameCube saw profits. But yeah, GameCube and XBox almost sold the same.
Third place is third place.... and the Xbox was a brand new entry that pretty much had no market penetration in a major market in Japan. And considering how quickly the gamecube had rock bottom prices I question how much profit it made, most of Nintendo's money from that era would've been from the gameboy advance, something which sold @ an amazing rate, heck Sony entered the handheld market to counter it.
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Old 2013-08-09, 07:11   Link #540
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W101 BLOG EP. 11: GO! THE PEOPLE NEED SAVING! is up

http://platinumgames.com/2013/08/09/...e-need-saving/

Also they have a little announcement after The Wonderful 101 themed Nintendo Direct today.
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