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Old 2012-03-18, 12:10   Link #1621
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Misdreavius View Post
If you weren't paying attention, Raiser was gonna KILL Issei, and as you know, people die if they are killed.

Rias obviously didn't want Issei to die, so what else could she do.

I'm sort of happy that Rias didn't win the game, as that wouldn't have been as interesting in my opinion, and people would scream of plot armour/predictable etc.
So instead of allowing him to be killed, she allows his ego to be completely crushed, REAL considerate there.
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Old 2012-03-18, 12:23   Link #1622
Skyfall
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
So instead of allowing him to be killed, she allows his ego to be completely crushed, REAL considerate there.
Err ... I'm pretty sure that it's better (not to mention smarter) to have a deflated "ego" due to momentary shock and being alive, rather than being dead and buried, assuming there would have been anything left to bury. The second option is kinda the worst possible outcome
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Old 2012-03-18, 12:47   Link #1623
Dengar
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Well, he failed to protect his master AND all his friends, and he didn't even manage to pay the price for failure. That hurts a LOT more than "a little deflated ego" as you put it.

Of course, I exaggerate a little. Of course Rias shouldn't have allowed him to be killed. But don't underestimate the massive impact this act has.

At least if I were him, the feeling of gratitude would be superseded by self loathing.
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Old 2012-03-18, 13:00   Link #1624
Skyfall
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Oh, I don't doubt he will undergo a phase of self loathing (the preview hints at as much), but that's something that can be eventually fixed - kick Raiser's behind, steal back the girl, snatch victory from jaws of defeat and feel twice as good about yourself afterwards. Being alive means all of that is still an actual possibility, being dead isn't something that can be fixed however. Live to fight another day and all that. Issei dying certainly wouldn't benefit him, never mind Rias.
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Old 2012-03-18, 13:18   Link #1625
Guido
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People are complaining that this episode was shifting too much into battle shounen territory leaving less time for ecchi jokes.

I have to digress.

I believe High School DxD offers something else and delivers at doing it.

Thanks to the pacing, the story is kept consistent and allows to focus the setting from light-hearted and slapstick comical, romance to gloom and serious battle and back again to light-hearted.

I admit that I was much surprised that Rias forced herself to resign and throw the game in order to save Issei, and most people have wanted the Gremory's to score their first win in the Rating Game.
However, you must pay attention to the conversation between Rias, Riser, and Grayfia in the eighth episode.
Rias's the youngest heir of the Gremory's and that's putting too much a burden to be the heir the family has the highest expectations on her with the bridal engagement to the Phoenix.
Until this Rating Game, Rias has never ever participated in any other rating game previously, hence, this was her very first Rating Game, and, moreso, her very first Rating Game as King of all her assembled set representing her clan.
Moreover, there's an age limit that must be cleared first in order for the representatives to participate or initiate a Rating Game; Rias either is barely above or has recently turned of age to accept Rizer's challenge to the Rating Game, therefore, her experience in a Rating Game is virtually none to minimal and not the same as battling in the frontlines against legions of Fallen Angels.
As the episode reached its climax, Rias, at some point, fell to Rizers' provocations and lost her composure slightly, attacking Rizer mercilessly.
You would say that because Rias behaved in a manner unbeffiting for the King in Chess, her and her comrade's defeat was inevitable?

That's not true, as I explained above, this was Rias's first Rating Game. When people engage in their very first experience doing whatever they have to do or want to do: some people keep their cool, some other make high expectations, and some other are just too nervous about not wanting to mess up.

Now, why Akeno enters the big picture, and why she was needed to remain in the game until the climax?
- Akeno's the type that rarely, if ever loses her composure. Of course, we've seen that when she releases at full power she becomes from a magical super dominatrix to an unstoppable child of nature. Nevertheless, she never loses her cool.
Recall that when she was fighting the Phoenix's Queen, Guinevella, she never flinched at all to the enemys' provocations, and literally made the Phoenix's Queen piece to mop the floor, although Akeno herself had taken some damage and by that point her magics were depleted but still in shape to assist Rias.
Akeno only got defeated because she was taken off guard and by surprise due to Guinevella pulling out the use of Phoenix Tears, which allowed the latter to instantaneously heal her body and regenerate her magics at full power again.

Had Akeno have prior knowledge about the Phoenix tears and how they worked, then she could have had turned the tables or prevented Guinevella from using the Phoenix Tears, then defeating the Phoenix's Queen and coming to Rias for support and to make sure Rias would keep herself calm and composed not to forget also that the outcome would have ended in Checkmate for the Gremory's due that Rizer would have been cornered with just a piece left, his little sister as the Bishop.

Rias mistakes are understandable due to her lack of experience and due to being gullible, because she never saw it coming or expected it from Issei not behaving under the rules of the Rating Game.
Issei behaved as a man and not as a piece for Rias's sake, because he so much desired to make Rias's smile and promised to himself not to lose to Rizer. Issei didn't want Rias to go along with the settled marriage to Rizer.

He wanted to prove to Rias that all would return together, that they could win, and he would score the win for all their fallen comrades.

Of course, such a naive way of thinking pulling it in the Rating Game got Issei owned and cornered by Rizer, and he almost got himself killed, prompting Rias to resign the game in order to save his life.
Technically, Issei costed his comrades the loss of the Rating Game, but at an intellectual and tactics level, it was Rias's shortcoming not having realized before how much unlimited determination and undying love Issei held for her to willingly put himself at such extreme lengths of danger to win to save her and his comrades.
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Old 2012-03-18, 14:13   Link #1626
Malkuth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonroots View Post
Like rvlast said, he's a pure asshole, he's not evil but no one really want's to be around him. He was going to kill all of Rias' servants to cut her ties with earth to get her to return to the underworld so she would marry him (he did this in episode 8 i think it was). If Grayfia hadn't stopped them he would have done so.
Except his 15-girl strong harem

In other words, both labelling him as evil, jerk, or asshole are oversimplification.

Oh! and I am pretty sure that Rias' surname isn't the only thing he is interested in
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Old 2012-03-18, 14:57   Link #1627
leokiko
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It was to be expected and I am glad this happened. If they won it would be too stupid even for this anime. They had much less experience and manpower. And Issei is still an rookie in everything and his pathetic personality doesn't help.

I'm not in any way disappointed to what happened, but I hope Issei actually thinks a bit and change some of his ways. But expecting character development in this type of anime may be dumb of me. Just go light-comedy mode again and let me laugh at you being an stupid pervert, thank you. And why are people mad at Rias anyway? Everyone knows Issei is the woman their "relationship". Rias is only doing what it takes to protect her woman.
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Old 2012-03-18, 15:08   Link #1628
Guido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leokiko View Post
It was to be expected and I am glad this happened. If they won it would be too stupid even for this anime. They had much less experience and manpower. And Issei is still an rookie in everything and his pathetic personality doesn't help.

I'm not in any way disappointed to what happened, but I hope Issei actually thinks a bit and change some of his ways. But expecting character development in this type of anime may be dumb of me. Just go light-comedy mode again and let me laugh at you being an stupid pervert, thank you. And why are people mad at Rias anyway? Everyone knows Issei is the woman their "relationship". Rias is only doing what it takes to protect her woman.
Whether be romance-comedy seinen or battle shounen those two types of anime genre always stress and emphasize the vitality and recklessness of youth, because they want to show that youth knows no boundaries and limitations in contrast to age.

Although, I do admit that constantly emphasizing youth over the top ends up irking me and becoming vexxing.

I really can't stand some male protagonists who are youths full of hotheadedness, recklessly charging in the frontlines with nothing else but instincts.

But again anime is a visual media to offer catharsis from reality.

I perfectly respect your opinions and have no intention of dissuading you otherwise. In my case, I like how HH DxD changes the setting from light-hearted to gloomy serious and back again to light-hearted.

I can guarantee you that once the mess is over the ecchi jokes will return a bount plentiful.
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Old 2012-03-18, 15:45   Link #1629
dragonroots
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malkuth View Post
Except his 15-girl strong harem

In other words, both labelling him as evil, jerk, or asshole are oversimplification.

Oh! and I am pretty sure that Rias' surname isn't the only thing he is interested in
Would YOU want to be within a hundred miles of the guy? I don't know the reason why those girls are apart of his team but there has to be one (my guess is they respect his power and want to be near him as a result). Ravel is the only one who is reasonable (she is his little sister after all). They are minor characters however and were just thrown in to make it so he would have a team.
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Old 2012-03-18, 17:18   Link #1630
lightbringer
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Originally Posted by Skyfall View Post
Oh, I don't doubt he will undergo a phase of self loathing (the preview hints at as much), but that's something that can be eventually fixed - kick Raiser's behind, steal back the girl, snatch victory from jaws of defeat and feel twice as good about yourself afterwards. Being alive means all of that is still an actual possibility, being dead isn't something that can be fixed however. Live to fight another day and all that. Issei dying certainly wouldn't benefit him, never mind Rias.
As Tyrion would have put it: "death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities."

Even so, the defeat-powerup-comeback-victory cycle is a standard trope also. So regardless of whether Issei-tachi would have won or lost, it was doomed to be a standard plot device either way This way it's a bit less boring though, true enough.
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Old 2012-03-18, 19:34   Link #1631
silvercover
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonroots View Post
Like rvlast said, he's a pure asshole, he's not evil but no one really want's to be around him. He was going to kill all of Rias' servants to cut her ties with earth to get her to return to the underworld so she would marry him (he did this in episode 8 i think it was). If Grayfia hadn't stopped them he would have done so.
proof for this. raiser was only doing it to issei since he really pissed him off, and its really possible you know that issei would not have really died since they were in a game.
and as for ep 8, well, he was most likely just threatening rias so she would do it. plus he did calm down and stop both in that and in this ep. he's not unreasonable and not a backstaber(yet perhaps), so I cant really hate him. he hasnt really done any unnecessary things as well, like sabotage via injuring her piece before the game.

the way I see it, if rias did win there, he would have actually conceded. though he might throw a bit of a fit, cant see him going all out to murder rias and her companions if it happened.
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Old 2012-03-18, 21:41   Link #1632
dragonroots
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You have forgotten the most sacred rule that men must follow when dealing with women, never make them cry, and if you do you have to make it up to them. And you are right, Raiser did play fair and square, but if you look at the teams, Raiser had a huge advantage.

Raiser has:
Queen>1
Rook>2
Bishop>2
Knight>2
Pawn>8(individuals)x1(piece each)=8

total=15

Rias has:
Queen>1
Rook>1
Knight>1
Bishop>1
Pawn>1(individual)x8(pieces)=8

total=12

Basically Raiser had a huge advantage cause for every piece Rias had aside from pawn and queen he had 2, which means that they were outnumbered. If Raiser had sent both knights and both rooks to handle Kiba and Koneko, then he could have taken them out easy. The only problem was Akeno since she is genuinely stronger than any of his pieces other than his queen (hence he gave his queen Phoenix tears to guarantee her victory).
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Old 2012-03-18, 21:56   Link #1633
Xaturas
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Raiser had to win.
Whats better way than to close a story with Ise saving his princess from evil overlord hands just before she gets married.
It's used so often in many Hollywood stories, prince charming coming to church and running away with his girl into a sunset.
All you need to add is some action fight and gar moments for Ise as its battle story.
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Old 2012-03-18, 22:19   Link #1634
dragonroots
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Ishibumi-sensei has a way of turning the cliche into the epic win in HSDxD as i'm sure you're well aware Xaturas.
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Old 2012-03-18, 22:22   Link #1635
KyriaL
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Just leave it to Issei to occasionally spout some cheesy one-liners and namings. But it may be a little too overpowering if Issei suddenly won the game due to some extra hidden power, from the point of manpower alone, they were severely outnumbered, and its already an achievement getting that far.
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Old 2012-03-18, 22:50   Link #1636
Xaturas
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Originally Posted by KyriaL View Post
Just leave it to Issei to occasionally spout some cheesy one-liners and namings. But it may be a little too overpowering if Issei suddenly won the game due to some extra hidden power, from the point of manpower alone, they were severely outnumbered, and its already an achievement getting that far.
Ise was special since the ep you learned that Rias had to use 8 pawns on him.
All we need is how he gets more power from his dragon and at what price if its possible.

After all he is the main hero, just look at Goku, Ichigo or any other shounen hero's, they aways get power ups when its most needed.
What he needs is a power to kill God so that he overpowers Raiser healing power, it was probably already explained how phenex work.

As far as it goes he could bring a gun and use his boost power to increase gun power to kill Raiser.
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Old 2012-03-18, 23:00   Link #1637
Yui Is My Wife
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Nice touch having Issei being able to pass his promotional ability onto his brothers and sisters

(I amaware that they are not related, but since Rias explicitly stated that she considers them thus, I believe this term is approrpiate)

If Unlimited Blade Works is what happens when he boosted Kiba, imagine what would have happened if he used his promotion boost on Akeno-oneechan...

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Old 2012-03-18, 23:49   Link #1638
bumbayker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dragonroots View Post
You have forgotten the most sacred rule that men must follow when dealing with women, never make them cry, and if you do you have to make it up to them. And you are right, Raiser did play fair and square, but if you look at the teams, Raiser had a huge advantage.

Raiser has:
Queen>1
Rook>2
Bishop>2
Knight>2
Pawn>8(individuals)x1(piece each)=8

total=15

Rias has:
Queen>1
Rook>1
Knight>1
Bishop>1
Pawn>1(individual)x8(pieces)=8

total=12

Basically Raiser had a huge advantage cause for every piece Rias had aside from pawn and queen he had 2, which means that they were outnumbered. If Raiser had sent both knights and both rooks to handle Kiba and Koneko, then he could have taken them out easy. The only problem was Akeno since she is genuinely stronger than any of his pieces other than his queen (hence he gave his queen Phoenix tears to guarantee her victory).
Yup. It's not just also the number of players in the each team but also the value of each piece.

Knight/Bishop = 3 pawns
Rook = 5 pawns
Queen = 9 pawns

Point wise, Raiser has 39 while Rias has 28. Of course this isn't taking to consideration to Raiser's immortality and tears of the phoenix which tips the scale even more to Raiser's team favor. For the Gremory team being undermanned and overwhelmed they did a spectacular job reducing Raiser's team to him, his queen and a bishop.
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Old 2012-03-19, 00:59   Link #1639
kenjiharima
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Another dramatic end on HSDxD.

This is what I like in an anime awesome fanservice, great action and those little plot that makes the hero become more awesome in the end.
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Old 2012-03-19, 02:15   Link #1640
kujoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido View Post
People are complaining that this episode was shifting too much into battle shounen territory leaving less time for ecchi jokes.

I have to digress.

I believe High School DxD offers something else and delivers at doing it.

Thanks to the pacing, the story is kept consistent and allows to focus the setting from light-hearted and slapstick comical, romance to gloom and serious battle and back again to light-hearted.
I'd have to agree. Granted, the show is filled with ecchi humour and whatnot, but you could see that battles were going to be a part of the overall package from a mile away. Devils, fallen angels, crazy inquisitors, the scene of Issei dying during the start in episode one... all these elements have been part of this story from the very beginning. It's just that DxD indulges in humour and light-hearted harem moments with its perverted protagonist to such a degree that you almost forget that there's a lot of greater things going on in the background.

I don't see this current episode as straying far from what the show has always been. And if recent developments are any indication (as all anime of this sort are wont to do), Issei and co. will just continue to grow stronger, develop new abilities and so on, as they meet new friends and enemies alike. This anime barely covers the entire novel series after all, so there's still definitely more to come as far as content and possibly 2nd (or even 3rd) seasons are concerned.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido View Post
I admit that I was much surprised that Rias forced herself to resign and throw the game in order to save Issei, and most people have wanted the Gremory's to score their first win in the Rating Game.
However, you must pay attention to the conversation between Rias, Riser, and Grayfia in the eighth episode.
Rias's the youngest heir of the Gremory's and that's putting too much a burden to be the heir the family has the highest expectations on her with the bridal engagement to the Phoenix.
Until this Rating Game, Rias has never ever participated in any other rating game previously, hence, this was her very first Rating Game, and, moreso, her very first Rating Game as King of all her assembled set representing her clan.
On another note, Rias resigning out of fear for Issei's life serves up the drama side of things when you realize that a king has willingly surrendered for the sake of her pawn. It's true that Issei would have likely been killed—but in a game of chess, pawns are meant to be sacrificed if need be whereas the safety of the king is paramount. It's left unsaid and almost unnoticed, but the significance is a symbolic reversal of how the game is typically played. It's significant in such a way as to highlight Rias' growing feelings for Issei. Had Rias not resigned, the Rating Game wouldn't be only thing she might have lost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guido View Post
Technically, Issei costed his comrades the loss of the Rating Game, but at an intellectual and tactics level, it was Rias's shortcoming not having realized before how much unlimited determination and undying love Issei held for her to willingly put himself at such extreme lengths of danger to win to save her and his comrades.
Judging from the preview, it does seem that Issei will think like this as well, believing that it was his inexperience and weakness that ultimately cost them the Rating Game.

As for what I thought of this episode... first of all, I'm glad I wasn't the only one who was immediately reminded of UBW. Overall, I was glad that the intensity of the fights was greater and more serious. With the confrontation of two queens, a disadvantage in numbers and all that talk about Raizer's power being the bee's knees two episodes back, I definitely expected something more action-packed this time around.
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