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Old 2011-05-07, 21:17   Link #641
Nera Sleith
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle View Post
Oho that clears it up....thanks. I seewhy Europeans would name her Tsao tsao direct from Cao Cao but on Koko/Keke?

Not too sure about how current mandarin and ancient mandarin pronunciations differ so can't tell....

And yar...I initially thought that was an alias too.....can see why Aria thinks that way.

EDIT: Just remembered...Koko is a Hongkonger yes? Is that how Cao Cao is pronounced in Cantonese? My Cantonese sucks bad since I never use it round the house so can someone clarify?
Yeah, well for me I thought Koko was her real name, I'm not really familiar with Chinese reading either so I was thinking like Aria at that time. But when I saw her image with a name Cao Cao in v7 illustrations. I was like, "aha so that was it".

I'm not sure if I come across this when reading Sherlock Holmes' novel, but can Sherlock speak Chinese? He might have called Koko "Tsao Tsao" when he saw the written name. Otherwise, Koko would just introduce herself as Koko like when her first encounter with Aria and Kinji, and that's how she'll be called in EU.

Maybe Hikari or kira can clarify that. (I mean your edit part) I wish I can speak Chinese in this time, since there will be alot of circumstance where Chinese knowledge is needed in v6-7. And I'm planning to translate some parts of v7 though.
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Old 2011-05-07, 23:43   Link #642
ZeKeR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nera Sleith View Post
Yeah, well for me I thought Koko was her real name, I'm not really familiar with Chinese reading either so I was thinking like Aria at that time. But when I saw her image with a name Cao Cao in v7 illustrations. I was like, "aha so that was it".

I'm not sure if I come across this when reading Sherlock Holmes' novel, but can Sherlock speak Chinese? He might have called Koko "Tsao Tsao" when he saw the written name. Otherwise, Koko would just introduce herself as Koko like when her first encounter with Aria and Kinji, and that's how she'll be called in EU.

Maybe Hikari or kira can clarify that. (I mean your edit part) I wish I can speak Chinese in this time, since there will be alot of circumstance where Chinese knowledge is needed in v6-7. And I'm planning to translate some parts of v7 though.
Nera, you not being Ethereal anymore? Cool. Im currently rereading all chaps for polishing if needed... lol
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Old 2011-05-08, 02:12   Link #643
Icy.Tear
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...Koko was how Cao Cao is pronounced in Wei? I don't believe that. Well, whatever. I guess that means we're keeping her name as Koko. But, are we going to mention the ancestor Cao Cao as Koko in relevant cases, (E.G. when the furigana says Koko) and add a translator's note?

In Cantonese, it's pronounced something like "Cou Cou"...Well, I guess there's a 'h' before the 'o's on both ends. So, "Chou Chou"

In Mandarin, it's still pronounced Cao Cao, the same as the Japanese romanization in pronunciation.

And Sherlock could probably speak Chinese.
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Old 2011-05-08, 03:41   Link #644
Nera Sleith
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Originally Posted by ZeKeR View Post
Nera, you not being Ethereal anymore? Cool. Im currently rereading all chaps for polishing if needed... lol
Yeah, but I've got some moving to do after my finals. I think it will be next month, or if sooner, later this month.

Quote:
Originally Posted by YoakeNoHikari View Post
...Koko was how Cao Cao is pronounced in Wei? I don't believe that. Well, whatever. I guess that means we're keeping her name as Koko. But, are we going to mention the ancestor Cao Cao as Koko in relevant cases, (E.G. when the furigana says Koko) and add a translator's note?

And Sherlock could probably speak Chinese.
I am not really familiar with that, so I can't really confirm. But that's what according to what's written in v7.

I also agree with keeping her name as Koko, and when it was written as Cao Cao with Koko as furigana, add a translator note with them, yeah.

If Sherlock can speak Chinese, the misunderstanding in the HnA novel is consistent to the Sherlock novel then.
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Old 2011-05-08, 05:59   Link #645
Icy.Tear
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Yeah, I know. I don't see the people from the Cao Wei province calling Cao Cao Koko though. Just...doesn't click.

If Aria can speak 17 languages and she's 16 years old, then "The Man Beyond Space and Time" might just speak a few more ^^
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Old 2011-05-08, 06:08   Link #646
Athena
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoakeNoHikari View Post
Yeah, I know. I don't see the people from the Cao Wei province calling Cao Cao Koko though. Just...doesn't click.

If Aria can speak 17 languages and she's 16 years old, then "The Man Beyond Space and Time" might just speak a few more ^^
Impossible to me. So how did the Wei call Cao Cao's son then? Ko Pi instead of Cao Pi?

From what I understand, the European took the romanization since the 'c' is pronounced like a 'ts', and a 'k' is used to make the 'k' sound. But in English, the 'c' is either pronounced like a 'k' or a 's'. I think that it's what made the confusion. Normally, when a Chinese go to another country, they keep the romanization as the name, and many mistakes are made (e.g. The 'r' is pronounced like a 'l' in Chinese.)

My writing and translating skills in Chinese may not be as good as Yoake, but that I speak well enough.
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Old 2011-05-08, 06:17   Link #647
Icy.Tear
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Yeah, I just don't think that Cao Cao's name was ever pronounced as Ko Ko.

But, at least a consensus has been reached. We follow the novel as far as Koko and Cao Cao goes. When the furigana/katakana says Koko, leave it as Koko. When it says Sao Sao or Tsao Tsao or whatever it says, use Cao Cao.

Another question:

This goes under the furigana thing, and I agree with Larethian that it should be left to my discretion, but I felt the need to check:

双蛇刎颈崩 - Furigana: シャンシケイケイホー

Now, as any Chinese speaker knows, this is pronounced: Shuang She Wen Jing Beng. However, the furigana says: Shan Shi Kei Kei Hou.

Lolwut.

I see the resemblance between Shuang She and Shan Shi, and that's where it ends.

So, actual Chinese pronunciation, or the furigana provided. I'm going to go with the furigana for now, in case that's another 'Wen' pronuncation that I don't know about >.>

And, before anybody asks the Cantonese pronunciation: ...I'm not going to attempt this. http://sepc495.se.cuhk.edu.hk/cuvocal/. Copy and paste it.

So, is the 刎颈崩 pronounced like that in Japanese? (I have no idea.) Or, is it just another Wei thing.

Last edited by Icy.Tear; 2011-05-08 at 07:36.
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Old 2011-05-08, 08:14   Link #648
Nera Sleith
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Jeanne's seiyuu is announced: Guess who it was...

Spoiler for guess who?:
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Old 2011-05-08, 08:16   Link #649
Icy.Tear
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Oh my fucking god.

Kniiiiightttttmaaaareeeeee
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Old 2011-05-08, 08:16   Link #650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nera Sleith View Post
Jeanne's seiyuu is announced: Guess who it was...

Spoiler for guess who?:
WoW NICE!!!! a servant had arrive.
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Old 2011-05-08, 08:26   Link #651
Icy.Tear
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Suddenly, our entire F/SN conversation seems to be so relevant.
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Old 2011-05-08, 08:28   Link #652
blitz1/2
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at least it's good news that she isn't being cut from the show. xD
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Old 2011-05-08, 08:34   Link #653
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well they can't cut Jeanne on the show but they can at least butchered her ;_; it's all up to the staff.

And I really hate the idea of a rushed one. Please be contented on vol 3 ending.
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Old 2011-05-08, 09:18   Link #654
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoakeNoHikari View Post
...Koko was how Cao Cao is pronounced in Wei? I don't believe that. Well, whatever. I guess that means we're keeping her name as Koko. But, are we going to mention the ancestor Cao Cao as Koko in relevant cases, (E.G. when the furigana says Koko) and add a translator's note?

In Cantonese, it's pronounced something like "Cou Cou"...Well, I guess there's a 'h' before the 'o's on both ends. So, "Chou Chou"

In Mandarin, it's still pronounced Cao Cao, the same as the Japanese romanization in pronunciation.

And Sherlock could probably speak Chinese.
Maybe that's why Akamatsu calls her Koko? Because of the Cantonese pronunciation?

Wei covers Luoyang and much of the central plains around there....what is the dialect commonly spoken there? Wasn't it plain old Mandarin like in Beijing and the rest of the Imperial strongholds?
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Old 2011-05-08, 09:19   Link #655
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Just want to ask: when is the first ever mention of the term Hihiirokane and/or the cross of Riko's mother?
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Old 2011-05-08, 09:21   Link #656
tsunade666
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riko's cross was first mention when Riko ask for help to retrieve it from Vlad in vol 3. Irokane was mentioned from Holmes research about Hidan in vol 5.
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Old 2011-05-08, 09:26   Link #657
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YoakeNoHikari View Post
Yeah, I just don't think that Cao Cao's name was ever pronounced as Ko Ko.

But, at least a consensus has been reached. We follow the novel as far as Koko and Cao Cao goes. When the furigana/katakana says Koko, leave it as Koko. When it says Sao Sao or Tsao Tsao or whatever it says, use Cao Cao.

Another question:

This goes under the furigana thing, and I agree with Larethian that it should be left to my discretion, but I felt the need to check:

双蛇刎颈崩 - Furigana: シャンシケイケイホー

Now, as any Chinese speaker knows, this is pronounced: Shuang She Wen Jing Beng. However, the furigana says: Shan Shi Kei Kei Hou.

Lolwut.

I see the resemblance between Shuang She and Shan Shi, and that's where it ends.

So, actual Chinese pronunciation, or the furigana provided. I'm going to go with the furigana for now, in case that's another 'Wen' pronuncation that I don't know about >.>

And, before anybody asks the Cantonese pronunciation: ...I'm not going to attempt this. http://sepc495.se.cuhk.edu.hk/cuvocal/. Copy and paste it.

So, is the 刎颈崩 pronounced like that in Japanese? (I have no idea.) Or, is it just another Wei thing.
Beng is pronounced Hou in Jap and Jing is pronounced Kei....Not too sure on Wen...

It appears that Akamatsu is using the pronunciations closest to Mandarin to romanize kanji...

I'm not sure if he is actually fluent in it or not...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nera Sleith View Post
Jeanne's seiyuu is announced: Guess who it was...

Spoiler for guess who?:
Well she does look like Saber in her armour....
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Old 2011-05-08, 09:26   Link #658
Marcus H.
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Well, crap. So it means that Riko's hair ability will not be explained until Volume 3?
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Old 2011-05-08, 09:29   Link #659
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Well, crap. So it means that Riko's hair ability will not be explained until Volume 3?
Nope. It won't and in the second volume witch and wizards battle will be shown. And ability users and race blood line for vol 3. While a bit of secret of the setting will be shown in vol 4 and 5.2

The first 1-5 volumes are prologue to story settings. The real story starts in vol 6. With EU start moving in not an organize way.
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Old 2011-05-08, 09:33   Link #660
Marcus H.
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The anime adaptation will be a weird adventure, that's for sure. o_o
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