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Old 2012-03-29, 21:37   Link #501
Guardian Enzo
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No, Okada made no attempt to translate what was in the book to the movie - she basically took none of the source material except the character names and the dates. When you're starting over from scratch, time isn't really the issue.
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Old 2012-03-29, 22:15   Link #502
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
It's also his adaptation of Getbackers that got to me. The manga and the anime are two very different works. I think that Furuhashi is a great director (probably one of the best in anime), but sometimes he deems his own vision as more important than the original author's--which I often disagree with. He did this in HxH. While it's one of my favorite shows (and I really like a lot of the changes he made), it also really altered my perception of the characters from the manga until I went back and read it.
A looser approach to adaptation was fairly typical for directors of that era. Many people speak as if deviation from the source is a recent trend, but today's shows tend to be more faithful than a lot of 90s anime (which were a bit more mainstream oriented and often subject to content restrictions).

Ex. Slayers (Takashi Watanabe), Excel Saga (Nabeshin), Love Hina (Yoshiaki Iwasaki), Kodocha (Akitaro Daichi, Hiroaki Sakurai).....All of these were big titles that made their directors successful, yet the stories were drastically altered from the original sources. In some way, I think they subsequently influenced how those directors would approach future shows they became involved with.

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That would be the executive producer's call... he/she has the money he/she gets the final say in the project... Not to be confused with the Production Team that gets everything done and takes orders from the Director who in tern is the bridge between the financial and creative teams.
It's a collaborative process. The producers make the final decision, but it's certain that some directors and writers are more likely to push for an original direction than others.

You can guess where Mari Okada sits. Recently, she has worked with directors who are/aspire to be creators themselves (Shoji Kawamori, Tatsuyuki Nagai, Yutaka Yamamoto), so it's probably safe to say that they hire her for a reason. It helps when both director and screenwriter are on the same wavelength.

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Furuhashi also directed the TV adaptation, and much of the first two seasons was certainly quite faithful to Watanuki's vision.
I'd guess that Furuhashi had more latitude on future shows and on the Kenshin OVAs. I haven't seen much of his work, but if he routinely adopts a gritty style, it's probably a reflection of his own tastes as a director.
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Old 2012-03-30, 03:51   Link #503
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Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
No, Okada made no attempt to translate what was in the book to the movie - she basically took none of the source material except the character names and the dates. When you're starting over from scratch, time isn't really the issue.
As a fan, I totally agree that it is disappointing that we are only getting a story that is barely passing off by the skin of it's teeth as Rurouni Kenshin. If I had never read or watch the series I would never have gotten that there is even a relationship between Kenshin and Kaoru in this OVA. Not only that, but I would never have gotten half of the relationship/ connection between more then half of the story. All this OVA tells me is that there is a bad guy (mummy) that the red haired dude has to fight. Granted, I don't fully understand Japanese, so I'm probably missing a lot more then I should be.

Anyways, I do wish that they would have decided to treat this as a TV series adaptation starting from the beginning and follow the manga... like pretend that the previous series didn't exist and just start fresh.

However, I totally disagree with your "When you're starting over from scratch, time isn't really the issue". Time is always an issue regardless of what you are doing. Someone decided that there will only be 2 movies that will tell a whole story arch (Ch. 48- 151, that's 103 chapters), and thus, people have to figure out how to tell that story within the allocated time.

As much as I'd hate to say this, I think that some of the small changes will actually benefit these OVAs. Things like:
Spoiler for fight scenes:
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Old 2012-03-30, 07:16   Link #504
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
It ultimately makes me consider Kenshin's later decisions and actions to be incredibly misguided. I don't see Kenshin in the OVAs as ever having loved Tomoe; she became someone who satiated his loneliness. It was like a Misato-Kaji romance.
Ironically, those of us who read the manga would disagree with you. Given the circumstances in both settings, both characters were misguided. For one, Katsura had the wrong impression of Tomoe, thinking her to be just a normal female that Kenshin could open up to and be sheathed by. He openly had to the two head to that safe house for that very reason. And because of the tragedy that occurred, it not only backfired in Katsura's face but Kenshin's as well; and he had to suffer the most whilst Katsura did not.

But as I explained above to kuromitsu, Kenshin didn't "fall in love" with Tomoe but felt "love" for her. There's a significant difference. He knew nothing about Tomoe even in the manga. His love was based on the lies she'd built up to keep him at bay and her looks and scent. That was it. And so, the OVA take isn't that farfetched from the original.

My words to kuromitsu were as such:
Quote:
For one, he who directed the first adaption had actually read the manga. That's ironic considering what followed. The events took place like they were supposed to. The emotions were pretty much the same. Kenshin had become cold towards the world to avoid seeing the truth of what he was doing, killing people. Tomoe had become the shell of the woman she once was, albeit in the manga they never actually showed her original character before her fiance's death.

One thing you have to remember when comparing the adaption to the manga is looking at the time slot here. There were a lot of events to cover and they had to fill in for missing pieces (regarding the Bakumatsu). They had to cut out a bit. Meanwhile, Nobuhiro had plenty of time to draw out every piece of the past. But that didn't mean they didn't show his warming heart. They cut out his interaction with the children. However, in the final two episodes, he began to smile, laugh, and act like a normal human being. He also showed concern and protection for her. When he realizes he's the one who killed her fiance, he's mortified, realizing he stole her happiness away from her, and he went to replace that piece by giving his life to protect her (which is well within his later nature).

In the manga, there was no instant connection to Tomoe from Kenshin. It was Katsura whom felt that and so he set them up together. The adaption cleaned this up by having Kenshin be attracted to her scent (notice he repeats "white plum" a lot). Remember the circumstances in which Kenshin and Tomoe were brought together before saying she did not "defrost." In the second episode, Tomoe - after being cared for by the new, heartwarming Kenshin - starts opening up to him. In her circumstance, he is the man who murdered her love, and he will always remain that. Falling in love with that man, whom she swore to kill no matter what, to have her revenge on, is difficult. But rather than saying Kenshin "fell in love" with Tomoe, it was a "love at first sight" deal even in the manga. Given how little time they were together and the harsh circumstances, this is obvious.

At least it was better than the second adaption in which a new viewer would go: "how the hell did Kenshin and Kaoru hook up so fast?"
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Originally Posted by Eeni View Post
If I had never read or watch the series I would never have gotten that there is even a relationship between Kenshin and Kaoru in this OVA. Not only that, but I would never have gotten half of the relationship/ connection between more then half of the story. All this OVA tells me is that there is a bad guy (mummy) that the red haired dude has to fight. Granted, I don't fully understand Japanese, so I'm probably missing a lot more then I should be.
Let me say that I laughed and sobbed at this because it is so true.

There is only one hint towards Kenshin and Kaoru in this adaption, and it's the scene when they meet up again. They have a moment of closeness (that wasn't in the manga!) and nearly kiss before Yahiko appears. Then it's gone. That's it, it's over, cut to credits, done. At least they brought back Kaoru's personality for a bit. But the entire time, to my recollection, Kenshin never says "oro," a trademark of his. Ridiculous. It was shitty.

Oh, and forget poor, poor Sanosuke. His role is downplayed entirely. I barely saw that he was in the production. And Saito had more lines than Kenshin in the whole production. Then you had Shishio, whom talked more than Kenshin and Saito combined. At least Chou was the only Juppongatana to shine. He was my favorite one out of them too, had the most personality of them all, and became one of the better good guys in the end. Sadly, none of that personality shined out in this adaption, except his fighting skills which were still cut down.

All in all, let me say that you don't want to get the sub of it. Watching it raw is enough to make you feel sick to your stomach realizing your favorite childhood manga is once again being butchered.

Can't we get the original script writer back? I want us to go back to the days Gallop did it. Their first two seasons were absolutely gorgeous. Too bad they left it to Deen that only did the filler episodes and knew nothing about the background story. I don't even think it's the same artists anymore.
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Old 2012-03-30, 18:38   Link #505
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I tried looking for the general reactions from Japan but I couldn't find anything -- what has the reception of it been like out there?
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Old 2012-03-30, 19:16   Link #506
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Here you all go, ^^. Subs for this:

[Taka-THORA] Rurouni Kenshin New Kyoto Arc Part 1 Cage of Flames: 720p | 1080p

Enjoy!
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Old 2012-03-30, 19:35   Link #507
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Major gratitude here - I promise not to blame you if Okada totally screwed over the franchise!
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Old 2012-03-31, 03:20   Link #508
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^
She did.

90% of this is nothing like the manga at all. The speech is completely altered and unless you read the manga, you'd be freaking lost by the halfway point of figuring out what is actually going on in the arc. A horrible piece. Only good scene is the Kenshin and Kaoru scene at the end and talks between Misao and Kenshin (which I found myself fond of, considering there wasn't much one-on-one talk between them about his personal life in the manga or anime).
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Old 2012-03-31, 03:23   Link #509
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Yeah not going to even bother watching this. I'll spare myself of the horrors of DEEN. They ruined yet another franchise. Congrats DEEN, you suck.
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Old 2012-03-31, 03:26   Link #510
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Notes Wiki about original Kenshin anime:

Studio Studio Gallop (episodes 1-66)
Studio Deen (episodes 66 onwards)-- remember all those shitty episodes at the end?

Man they sure have been doing this for the longest time.

Maybe it's just luck that they get hard projects, but it's kinda funny how they're effectively the death sentence for so many franchises they come across. Umineko VN readers sup? F/SN readers sup?
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Old 2012-03-31, 03:38   Link #511
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Notes Wiki about original Kenshin anime:

Studio Studio Gallop (episodes 1-66)
Studio Deen (episodes 66 onwards)-- remember all those shitty episodes at the end?
But for the series the writers and director remained the same right?
So does working for DEEN magically bring out the worst in people?

There's plenty of cases of people failing at DEEN having success at other studios,for example the same guy who was the head writer in charge of Fate/Stay Night for DEEN ended up directing Steins;Gate for White Fox.
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Old 2012-03-31, 03:46   Link #512
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
But for the series the writers and director remained the same right?
So does working for DEEN magically bring out the worst in people?

There's plenty of cases of people failing at DEEN having success at other studios,for example the same guy who was the head writer in charge of Fate/Stay Night for DEEN ended up directing Steins;Gate for White Fox.
Indeed, this transcends staff. This studio is just like WTF.

Note that steins;gate had more than one director though :S. I think I know which one made it more special too (hint: directed Texhnolyze).

One thing's for sure though. A bad budget studio is a bad budget studio no matter how you put it.
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Old 2012-03-31, 03:49   Link #513
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Hell, just look at Mari Okada herself and her workings with DEEN. But that might just be herself. I guess she has to take on these jobs as a writer, but still my thoughts on her work are getting pretty eh.

I once made a quip that the characters so retarded outside of the lead and 2-3 others in Hana Saku Iroha because it was an allegory for her working with members of a less than competent staff. And then we just might have an example here!

I mean yes, I understand that the studios don't get to pick and choose what they have to do. But more than a decade of fail can't be coincidence can it?
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Old 2012-03-31, 03:58   Link #514
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That's because you only remember their failures, not their successes

Actually FSN is a success, despite whatever complains are thrown in the Internet.
If FSN was given a death sentence like you said, then the franchise would have never been animated again, which means Kara no Kyoukai or FZ would have never existed.
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Old 2012-03-31, 04:47   Link #515
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Notes Wiki about original Kenshin anime:

Studio Studio Gallop (episodes 1-66)
Studio Deen (episodes 66 onwards)-- remember all those shitty episodes at the end?

Man they sure have been doing this for the longest time.

Maybe it's just luck that they get hard projects, but it's kinda funny how they're effectively the death sentence for so many franchises they come across. Umineko VN readers sup? F/SN readers sup?
I, uh, pointed that out a while back. Perhaps I should've stated it outright as you did so you wouldn't miss over that.

Yes, Deen did all the filler episodes.

For the first batch of filler episodes in season one (or arc one), Gallop did pretty good. Although Kenshin becoming Battousai for one scene urked me a little, it was otherwise faithful to his personality. They knew how to work with Kenshin. However, once it transferred to Deen, it was like "we'll do what the fuck we want now."

There is no excuse for their butcher to the anime.
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Old 2012-03-31, 04:50   Link #516
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Quote:
Gallop did pretty good. Although Kenshin becoming Battousai for one scene urked me a little, it was otherwise faithful to his personality. They knew how to work with Kenshin. However, once it transferred to Deen, it was like "we'll do what the fuck we want now."
But from what I can see even if the studio changed the director and writers remained the same,so the same creative staff that was a gallop was also at deen.


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Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
Note that steins;gate had more than one director though :S. I think I know which one made it more special too (hint: directed Texhnolyze).
I had the other one down as assistant but after checking you're indeed right they're both credited as director.

Quote:
Actually FSN is a success, despite whatever complains are thrown in the Internet.
If FSN was given a death sentence like you said, then the franchise would have never been animated again
If it really was a success I'm sure DEEN would have been chosen for fate/zero but ufotable was.

Maybe we should just head on to the DEEN thread
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Old 2012-03-31, 05:18   Link #517
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But from what I can see even if the studio changed the director and writers remained the same,so the same creative staff that was a gallop was also at deen.
Yet they stayed faithful in the first two arcs and then butchered the third arc they made out of scratch. At least in the first arc's filler episodes, they stayed faithful to the characters. In the third arc, it was completely different from anything. And then the OVAs came out...

Whatever changes were made to the staff, or if they simply just decided to do "whatever the fuck they wanted to," they butchered the filler arc and left out the entire final arc of Kenshin's life.

It was about as bad as Bleach filler arcs, and that goes far down in the ocean.
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Old 2012-03-31, 11:30   Link #518
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Hell, just look at Mari Okada herself and her workings with DEEN. But that might just be herself. I guess she has to take on these jobs as a writer, but still my thoughts on her work are getting pretty eh.
My experience with Okada goes something like this:

*watches Ano Hana* "Hey this Ano Hana show is actually pretty good and solidly written....wait what's that? She wanted to do WHAT with the script originally?"

*watches anything she's written for since* "Oh my good lord!"

I don't know if that projects she's been getting give her no room to work with (honestly I don't know how anybody writes a great script for a Black Rock Shooter anime to be fit into 8 episodes) or she's just not that imaginative or creative but man for somebody that's as prolific as she is becoming her scripts don't really do that much to impress and are about as safe as your average anime scriptwriters work these days. No idea why she has become so singled out to write for so many heavily hyped projects of late over her peers.
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Old 2012-03-31, 17:47   Link #519
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If you'll forgive the intrusion, I've posted a review of the OVA and it's too long to be appropriate to post here, I think.
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Old 2012-03-31, 18:36   Link #520
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From the sounds of it I'll just skip it. I would rather read the wonderful Kenshin manga again instead.
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