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Old 2011-04-30, 15:47   Link #1
Tenken's Smile
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Honesty and Integrity

Is honesty the best policy in today's world?

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I don't think it is... even in simple interactions with friends. Most people will hear only what they like to hear. Even if people say they value the truth and want to know the truth, if you're straightforward and tell the truth that doesn't work in their favor (such as, "you're prettier without makeup" or "this is exactly what you did that pissed me off"..), they're gonna hate you anyway.

Last edited by Tenken's Smile; 2011-04-30 at 21:17.
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Old 2011-04-30, 15:56   Link #2
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenken's Smile View Post
Is honesty the best policy and politics in today's world?

-------------


I don't think it is... even in simple interactions with friends. Most people will hear only what they like to hear. Even if people say they value the truth and want to know the truth, if you're straightforward and tell the truth that doesn't work in their favor (such as, "you're prettier without makeup" or "this is exactly what you've done that pissed me off"..), they're gonna hate you anyway. Though I'd like to be honest, I can't stand dishonesty, I'm not sure if I should even try.
With the way things are in this day and age, honesty is the last thing you need in the political world, tho I can't say the same when it comes to people. While it's true that there are those people who can't take the truth because it hurts them, there are also those people who do appreciate constructive criticism. They're quite difficult to spot within a given group of people but they are around. I like to be honest regardless of who I'm with because then, those who appreciate me for who I am and what I say are those people I can truly consider friends. I suppose that's why I have a few friends to speak of But on the upside, those few friends are friends that you'll know for a long, long time, and to me, at least, that's what matters most.

Also, there's a fine line between being considerate and simply telling people strictly what they want to hear just to feel satisfied or even glorified. There's a time and place for what needs to be said, after all, so not all people only want to hear what they like. Words can cut deeper than steel at times depeding on the mood of the recipient. As I said, I like to speak the truth, but I also try to know when there's a good time and place to let it out.
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Old 2011-04-30, 15:58   Link #3
DonQuigleone
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Honesty is the best policy, particularly if you get into the habit of it. But sometimes one should be politic about certain things. IE don't tell someone to their face that they look ugly in makeup. Instead say "hmm, you know, I think your eyes are really nice without any makeup at all". Then again, you should also make a habit of not giving your opinion unless it's asked for.

But yeah, always tell the truth, as you see it. But always do so with the understanding that the truth as you see it could be wrong, and the other person could easily be right.
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Old 2011-04-30, 17:54   Link #4
synaesthetic
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenken's Smile View Post
I don't think it is... even in simple interactions with friends. Most people will hear only what they like to hear. Even if people say they value the truth and want to know the truth, if you're straightforward and tell the truth that doesn't work in their favor (such as, "you're prettier without makeup" or "this is exactly what you did that pissed me off"..), they're gonna hate you anyway.
You ever notice that the better a person is at lying, the better they are when it comes to dealing with people?

The thing is, well, I'll quote from a favorite essay of mine, "Words Don't Mean What They Mean":

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Pinker
Why don't people just say what they mean? The reason is that conversational partners are not modems downloading information into each other's brains. People are very, very touchy about their relationships. Whenever you speak to someone, you are presuming the two of you have a certain degree of familiarity--which your words might alter. So every sentence has to do two things at once: convey a message and continue to negotiate that relationship.
That's basically it, though I suggest reading the whole essay. It offers a good bit of insight as to why people communicate the way they do!
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Old 2011-04-30, 20:36   Link #5
Seitsuki
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This reminds me of Pinter really, the idea that we are always putting on an act depending on who we interact with. For instance, the vocabulary/mannerisms/behaviour we adopt around our teachers will be different from those around our friends, family, etc, the reason being a mixture of society's expectations and our own need to be accepted by our peer groups. As such our "real" self as it were is hard to define, perhaps being the "you" when you are alone and without inhibitions, or an amalgamation of all the personas you've developed. Leads on to the hedgehog theory, which is a whole new direction altogether. But I digress.

Honesty in politics doesn't work for one simple reason. Votes. An honest politician may get respect for it but they sure won't get votes for it since people don't like what they hear. To be honest (heh) most voters these days aren't exactly intellectual but more reactive- they more or less take politicians on their word then get pissed when it's not kept later, rather than actually pondering what they're being promised beforehand (or at least that's how I see it looking at the flood of complaints on claims which weren't really realistic in the first place). Either way though until we either have a way to make politicians more immediately accountable, or the world suddenly becomes a better place, nothing's liable to change. We just have to be smarter :P
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Old 2011-04-30, 20:47   Link #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Seitsuki View Post
Honesty in politics doesn't work for one simple reason. Votes. An honest politician may get respect for it but they sure won't get votes for it since people don't like what they hear. To be honest (heh) most voters these days aren't exactly intellectual but more reactive- they more or less take politicians on their word then get pissed when it's not kept later, rather than actually pondering what they're being promised beforehand (or at least that's how I see it looking at the flood of complaints on claims which weren't really realistic in the first place). Either way though until we either have a way to make politicians more immediately accountable, or the world suddenly becomes a better place, nothing's liable to change. We just have to be smarter :P
I disagree. I think a lot of politicians sincerely promise a lot, think they can do it, and then when they finally get into power they find things are more difficult then expected.

I think it's more the fault of politicians being overly optimistic. Some politicians are also a bit cynical too, but I think most are fairly sincere.
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Old 2011-04-30, 20:57   Link #7
synaesthetic
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I felt that a lot (not all) of what Obama promised during his campaign was genuine--he really did mean what he said. However, upon entering the Oval Office, it was not long before he realized that he was outnumbered, outgunned, out-everything'd.

Too many presidents have been rendered ineffective by the rest of the government and the Washington bureaucracy being cockfaces.
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Old 2011-04-30, 21:36   Link #8
Master_Yoma
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Lie lie lie and lie some more honesty and telling the truth get you no where. Politicians all ways lie they lie about every thing that why there are politicians. What dose honesty and integrity ever get you any ways into days world
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Old 2011-04-30, 22:05   Link #9
Seitsuki
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But then what's your measure of honesty? Honesty should be whether or not you can carry out your promises. Saying that it's "more difficult than expected" is hardly an excuse. Making proclamations that you sincerely mean but are obviously going to be opposed is more naievity in my opinion. Agreed though, the system as it is in essence *prevents* honesty due to too many checks and balances and power plays- but that's not something that's likely to be fixed anytime soon (or some may argue that it *shouldn't* be fixed). Well, that's politics for you.
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Old 2011-04-30, 22:12   Link #10
Reckoner
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Integrity and honesty don't always go together.

That's because there's a difference between malicious lies and things like white lies.

It depends on the degree of one's lies as well.

When it all comes down to it, everybody lies, but it's how we use those lies that determines our integrity as people.
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Old 2011-04-30, 22:17   Link #11
DonQuigleone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master_Yoma View Post
Lie lie lie and lie some more honesty and telling the truth get you no where. Politicians all ways lie they lie about every thing that why there are politicians. What dose honesty and integrity ever get you any ways into days world
A reputation.
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Old 2011-04-30, 22:20   Link #12
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Boy Scouts of America attempt to follow this. It doesn't always work.

"A Scout is, Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty, Brave, Clean, and Reverent."
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Last edited by Ithekro; 2011-04-30 at 22:50.
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Old 2011-04-30, 22:47   Link #13
DonQuigleone
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Revenant???
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Old 2011-04-30, 22:50   Link #14
Ithekro
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That's what I get for not checking the spell checker and assuming it was giving me the correct word.
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Old 2011-04-30, 23:39   Link #15
AnimeFan188
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On the Job, Nice Guys May Finish Last:

"Courteous. Trusting. Good-natured. Cooperative. Tolerant.

These are the traits your mother told you -- repeatedly -- to embrace. "They'll make
people like you." "You'll always have friends." "You'll go far."

Mom was wrong, at least as far as business success is concerned.

My colleagues and I studied the careers of more than 1,500 people over a 20-year
period. Sorry, Mom, we found that being too nice won't boost you up the corporate
ladder."

See:

http://msn.careerbuilder.com/Article...y-Finish-Last/


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why Nice Guys Finish Last:

"Researchers at New Mexico State University in Las Cruces gave 200 college
students personality tests to see how many of what psychologists call "dark triad
traits" they possessed. These traits include callousness, impulsive behavior,
extroversion, narcissism and various other anti-social traits for which "bad boys" are
known.

The researchers also asked about the student's sex lives, their feelings about sexual
relationships, their number of sexual partners, and what they are seeking in sexual
or romantic relationships.

According to Peter Jonason, lead study investigator, although society tends to look
down upon these "negative" dark triad personality traits, there seems to be quite an
upside to being a bad boy."

See:

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5197531&page=1
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Old 2011-05-01, 00:01   Link #16
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Telling the truth is probably will get you know where but I'm not going to say that you can't get somewhere by telling the truth. And yes politicians lie I think everyone knows at least that much.
In todays day and age everybody lies, I doubt there are many people that don't its just how the world works, but I don't think thats something we should be proud of...

If I had it my way people wouldn't lie but they wouldn't just say "hey you look better with make-up" or "hey your pissing me off", people would probably try to ease what they are trying to say onto people, very gently.
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Old 2011-05-01, 00:05   Link #17
Vexx
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In a real "shades of grey" world, *calibrated honesty* is the best policy.

"Honesty is the best policy" has *always* been a qualified truth.
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Old 2011-05-01, 02:20   Link #18
Tiberium Wolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi View Post
With the way things are in this day and age, honesty is the last thing you need in the political world, tho I can't say the same when it comes to people. While it's true that there are those people who can't take the truth because it hurts them, there are also those people who do appreciate constructive criticism. They're quite difficult to spot within a given group of people but they are around. I like to be honest regardless of who I'm with because then, those who appreciate me for who I am and what I say are those people I can truly consider friends. I suppose that's why I have a few friends to speak of But on the upside, those few friends are friends that you'll know for a long, long time, and to me, at least, that's what matters most.
Actually the only honest politicians are the ones that admits that they are full of shit.
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Old 2011-05-01, 02:48   Link #19
Tsuyoshi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf View Post
Actually the only honest politicians are the ones that admits that they are full of shit.
Exactly. The question to ask, therefore, is how many of them actually are there?
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Old 2011-05-01, 04:41   Link #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenken's Smile View Post
Is honesty the best policy in today's world?
Sadly, the world has WAY too many sleezeballs running around. But ultimately, they will go down - sooner or later.
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