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View Poll Results: Madoka Magica - Total Series Rating
Perfect 10 167 57.39%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 79 27.15%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 27 9.28%
7 out of 10 : Good 9 3.09%
6 out of 10 : Average 7 2.41%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 0 0%
4 out of 10 : Poor 0 0%
3 out of 10 : Bad 0 0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 1 0.34%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.34%
Voters: 291. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2011-05-04, 21:14   Link #41
FatPianoBoy
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It certainly wasn't perfect, despite what it says next to the 10/10 rating I gave it. I work off of a five-point system on my blog, and as a rule I just scale up by doubling it. My criteria for a 5/5 is basically 'any problems it had were not severe enough to reduce enjoyment,' which describes my impression of the show pretty accurately. It was executed so well even in the areas where it could have easily stumbled that the pacing issues a few parts had weren't a big deal to me. The last bit of Kyouko's character development was a tad rushed, but it still worked; I just felt like I'd skipped a page of manga by accident. Overall the characterization was quite good.

I'm curious about what problems Vexx had with the plot, though. I thought the storytelling was easily the best part of the show.
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Old 2011-05-04, 21:19   Link #42
sa547
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In essence, my friend, Madoka is our "guilty pleasure", a satisfying exception to the rule.
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Old 2011-05-04, 21:31   Link #43
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I wouldn't call it a "guilty pleasure," I think it's legitimately good. I'd classify the trashy shoujo manga I occasionally enjoy as "guilty pleasures." Madoka is an entirely different thing to me.
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Old 2011-05-04, 21:39   Link #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatPianoBoy View Post
I wouldn't call it a "guilty pleasure," I think it's legitimately good. I'd classify the trashy shoujo manga I occasionally enjoy as "guilty pleasures." Madoka is an entirely different thing to me.
Just to be clear, I do think it's legitimately good myself.

While I have recently focused mainly on its flaws (as I see them, anyway), this anime does do many, many things very well.

Gen, Shinbou, and Kajura are a splendid team that really compliment each other well, I think.

I'd love to see this trio do something together again.
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Old 2011-05-04, 22:29   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well, personally there's very little difference to me from a 9 and a 10, they're basically an A and A+, and frequently most people consider an A+ to be redundant.

I think an anime can be regarded as a masterpiece even if it does have severe flaws, and there pretty much is no work that would be considered a masterpiece by everyone.

Take Neon Genesis Evangelion; it may have numerous flaws including rushed pacing post episode 20, that ending, and a suffering of animation quality near the end. But many would regard it as a masterpiece, even if I personally didn't 10-rate the main series. I may not be able to get over the flaws in that, but other people can.

I mean, the point of this medium is to entertain, and for those people which a show managed to entertain and reach out too more so than other shows, then that would rate a 10 right? Because from their subjective point of view, that show has the most value.

I wouldn't worry about this anime being overrated, because it already is. And every other popular show there has been and will be. It's really up to the viewers to screen out the hype and form their own opinion, as hard is it is.
I agree with this. There is no "perfect" piece of literary work out there in any entertainment medium as there will always be at least one flaw and there will always be someone who does not like the piece of work. Just about every popular, critically acclaimed piece of work is going to be viewed as overrated by someone's eye whether it be Titantic, Lord of the Rings, Singing in the Rain, Star Wars or Evangelion.


What's important when determining whether a piece of work is truly deserving of a "masterpiece" rating is if the majority of people who have seen it, deserves it does. Another thing that is also important is not not cross-rate between different entertainment mediums - that is, we should always rate anime against anime and not anime against TV series for example. Reason being is that the vast majority of anime are B-grade material and your average anime pales in quality compared to an average movie or TV series. Arguably, to be further exact, you should only compare within genres and not rate cross-genres - it isn't really fair to compare a science fiction space drama to a slice of life comedy for example.

In relation to Madoka, if we compare this to other magical girl anime, it is without a doubt the best of its genre in the last decade. Is it better/more impactful than Nanoha? Most likely. Will it be better/more impactful than magical girl classics such as Sailor Moon (1st season) and Cardcaptor Sakura? At least the very least it's only merely debatable, but I would say probably not. Do I think Sailor moon, Cardcaptor Sakura or Madoka is unworthy to be labelled "masterpieces"? Certainly not. Granted, my personal enjoyment for these 3 animes would not amount to a 10/10 rating, but that's because every person is biased in some form of another as each person has their own version of what is "ideal" piece of literary work would pan out like. Not to mention, people have preference for certain genres, characters, actors, art/music etc. will all factor in a person's subjective view of what is an masterpiece.

In my opinion, the same view should be taken towards other critically acclaimed anime such as Akira, Evangelion, Death Note, Code Geass etc. Notice that all these series have one thing in common, the number of fans GREATLY exceeds the number of critics, that it makes critics almost insignificant. Compare this to "popular" series such as Naruto, Bleach, One Piece, K-on, Lucky Star, anything produced by KyoAni. Here, the critics are more significant, but on the whole they are well received amongst the majority of the population. Based on this, the former is not unworthy of "masterpiece" ratings, but it will be questionable to label any of the latter as "masterpieces". Madoka falls within the former, as the number of haters for this series is pretty much insignificant.

It should also be noted that it's very hard to be creative or influential in this current era and in the future than the past. There are more literary works being produced now then ever before, and nearly every genre has been established, whilst in the past, genres were being created. Instead, what we are seeing now are meshes between genres, meshes between norms and tropes and that in itself is being labelled as being creative in this current era. Hence, that needs to be considered when deciding whether something should be labelled a masterpiece or not. Some people go even further and argue that we shouldn't compare literary works between different eras. Whilst Madoka might look damn impressive compared to a classic like Sailor Moon, Madoka already had a head-start because the magical girl genre is already well established by the time it was created.

TL;DR version: Although subjectively Madoka may not be viewed as a masterpiece (10/10), it is not unworthy to objectively view it as a masterpiece.
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Old 2011-05-05, 08:42   Link #46
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Well I really liked this. I'm a big fan of the mahou shoujo genre, and I think this was a pretty unique take on things. Homura was awesomesauce. I had the opportunity to watch this show from the beginning more than once, and it was pretty cool all the little things they added in that you don't get unless you're on a 2nd run through.
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Old 2011-05-05, 10:22   Link #47
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I gave this one a nine overall. Triple R has already pointed out and debated to death any issues I had with the series, and while I didn't find them to be nearly as detracting as he implied them to be, they were a bit detracting nonetheless. I probably could have given this a ten since those problems didn't really hamper my overall enjoyment of the series, and that is indeed the purpose of this review. But I'm the type of person who doesn't notice the flaws in things all that easily, so if the flaws in question are glaring enough that I noticed them on my first watch, I typically feel it's safe to condemn them a little bit. Thus, a nine will have to do it for me.
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Old 2011-05-05, 13:44   Link #48
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A lot of people are converting to Church of Madoka

Giving a a 10/10
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Old 2011-05-05, 19:36   Link #49
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I tend to rank based on the "consumer review" scale, which is to say that I don't concern myself with "perfection". I've seen plenty of shows that I can't find a single thing wrong with, but I wouldn't give them a 10, because there are just better shows out there. I did give this show a 10, but it wasn't because I didn't have any issues with the story. I just don't score it like a test, where I ding the show a point for everything it does that I don't like.

Which is just my long-winded and self-important way of explaining that I gave it a 10 because i can recommend it without any reservation, even if there was stuff that I could gripe about.
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Old 2011-05-05, 19:44   Link #50
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Originally Posted by ThereminVox View Post
I tend to rank based on the "consumer review" scale, which is to say that I don't concern myself with "perfection". I've seen plenty of shows that I can't find a single thing wrong with, but I wouldn't give them a 10, because there are just better shows out there. I did give this show a 10, but it wasn't because I didn't have any issues with the story. I just don't score it like a test, where I ding the show a point for everything it does that I don't like.

Which is just my long-winded and self-important way of explaining that I gave it a 10 because i can recommend it without any reservation, even if there was stuff that I could gripe about.
That's a good argument, I have to admit.

I like to approach anime ranks from a "literary critique" perspective (only broadening it to account for the importance of visuals and audio, of course), but a "consumer review" is just as valid a way of approaching it, I have to admit.

And yeah, I will say that from a "consumer review" perspective, Madoka deserves whatever the top grade is.
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Old 2011-05-05, 21:20   Link #51
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I like to approach anime ranks from a "literary critique" perspective (only broadening it to account for the importance of visuals and audio, of course), but a "consumer review" is just as valid a way of approaching it, I have to admit.
First off, I, too, have given Madoka a 10/10. I'm not going at it analytically, as I don't take ratings seriously, to be honest. They're a fun way of expressing your reaction. I, too, like the "literary critique" approach, but I don't think evelauation is part of the function of literary critique; or rather it is, but not directly. By that, I mean: you describe flaws, but you leave the evaluation of how much they matter to the reader of critique. The best you can do is an educated guess: if you enjoyed A, you might enjoy B. If you think X, then flaw Y will annoy you to no end. Statements, such as these, are as far as you can go towards evaluation on a literary critique.

A rating, such as 10/10, implies such an evaluation. The source of weighing flaws against merits in this case is me, since this is my vote, expressing my "overall series impressions". If I were to guess a sort of abstract or statistical distribution, I'd distort the poll results by pre-empting them. Or in other words, I'm not going to vote less than 10, because I know that others will do so, and the show is thus not "objectively" perfect.

On to "perfect". As I said, I don't take rating terribly seriously, but I'm a bit of a nit-picker, and to me - nitpickingly speaking - a "perfect" score makes no sense. Nothing ever is perfect. In an earlier post, you say that flaws make a show "not perfect". I agree, but not in the sense that absence of flaws makes a perfect. Philosophically speaking, I'm a relativist, which means perfection, too, describes a relation. A perfect fit, if you will. For example, a flawless sponge won't help you drive a nail into the wall. Even a seriously flawed hammer will be better.

Now a "fit" is easy to see where there is an obvious purpose. Art doesn't have that. How, for example, do you evaluate Kyubey's introduction of entropy. Many viewers had a wtf-reaction, but I sat there, thinking of course. I certainly didn't expect that, but many things I've been seeing suddenly made sense, such as the winding down of a wish into dispair. Entropy serves as a nice model of how the Incubator's see emotion. The whole magic system, now technologically harvested magic, suddenly made sense to me. And after seeing the ending, it makes even more sense with the "victory of hope". (Personally, I don't much like the conclusion, but I think it fits well with the rest of the show. Here, I am in the odd position where I find something that I think fits harder to forgive than something that I think doesn't.) But if you construe the show differently, then maybe you won't think the entropy concept makes sense. And who - then - is right? (Personally, I operate on a charity principle: All things being equal, I chose the interpretation that makes for the better show.)

As to the two flaws you mention:

1) Kyouko's conversion. I agree that this hints at a flaw, but it's not - I think - so much a character inconsistancy as it is a pacing issue. Kyouko's character, in general, has been pretty rushed. I'm also not happy with the one-shot exposition of the backstory. Too much to take in a short time. I think, her actions do make sense, but the show doesn't give you enough time and emphasis to properly appreciate it.

2) Junko's behaviour in the ending. Here, I flat out disagree with you. I thought, that how Junko was handled in the last two episodes was the best thing about these episodes. (I've talked about it elsewhere, and I know you read the post since you replied. No encore here. )

(Aside: Your posts made me realise that I need to re-watch 5cm per Second, as I didn't quite get it all the first time round.)

I honestly think that Madoka is among the best anime I've ever seen. (Last season had, IMO, two master pieces: Madoka and Hourou Musuko. The last thing before that I'd have put that lable on would have been Durarara!!!. This season? Wait and see.)
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Old 2011-05-06, 02:27   Link #52
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Quote:
I tend to rank based on the "consumer review" scale, which is to say that I don't concern myself with "perfection". I've seen plenty of shows that I can't find a single thing wrong with, but I wouldn't give them a 10, because there are just better shows out there. I did give this show a 10, but it wasn't because I didn't have any issues with the story. I just don't score it like a test, where I ding the show a point for everything it does that I don't like.
Yep, consumer scale says it all. While it's always fun and good exercise for mind to play critics, we are hardly the real ones (those guys undergo some professional training AFAIH), but we always have our right as readers/viewers to rank the work based on our subjective perception. Thus, for instance, I gave 10 to Angel Beats which I don't consider anywhere near perfect, but which I liked A LOT. On the other hand, I somehow ranked Nanoha as 9, which never prevented it from being one of my favourites.

As to enthropy thing... I've never been bothered with it. Whether such an explanation works in reality or not is of not that much concern, seeing as Madokaverse already sports some things whose existence in reality is questionable to say the least. That's fiction for you. The whole "for the sake of the universe" thing just played its part in painting Kyuubey's morality blue and orange, and giving a plausible reason for aliens to be involved without stooping to alien invasion/galactic wars stuff (Urobuchi could have easily pulled off something like Animorphs, but I'm glad he didn't). After all, Kyuubey is not an alien to make the story cooler and more sci-fi; AFAIU he's an alien to emphasize that he's, well, alien to humans and their views on good and evil.

Quote:
Last season had, IMO, two master pieces: Madoka and Hourou Musuko.
Going a bit offtopic, I was interested enough in the upcoming Fate/Zero anime after learning that it's based on Urobuchi's novel and handled by pretty much the Kara no Kyoukai team (ufotable + Ei Aoki + Yuki Kajiura). But I was intrigued to learn the other day that Ei Aoki also directed Horou Musuko. Maybe I should watch it when I have the time.
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Old 2011-05-07, 04:51   Link #53
kaigan
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it took me great lengths procrastinating to write a credible overall impression. i hope to finally sort out my thoughts, but emotion still run high inside of me. i don't intend to give a coherent and very detailed analysis since a previous lot might already explained it better than i do.

tl;dr: 100+/10. since it's not among the choices, i will select the highest available.


---=== [ general impression ] ===---
Spoiler:


---=== [ story, writing, and plot devices ] ===---
Spoiler:


---=== [ animation quality ] ===---
Spoiler:


---=== [ voice acting ] ===---
Spoiler:


---=== [ soundtrack ] ===---
Spoiler:


---=== [ enjoyment ] ===---
Spoiler:


this series will definitely change the way you look at life.

Last edited by kaigan; 2011-05-07 at 05:13.
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Old 2011-05-08, 07:43   Link #54
kitten320
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Wow, it is the first time I don't see a single vote below 7...
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Old 2011-05-08, 09:50   Link #55
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and even if you replay the scenes, the first time experience didn't vanish. if you cried in one episode. you will probably cry again the next time you watched it. and again still for the third.
Seconded and testified.

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sorry, i'm not really familiar with the names but they all did an amazing job. i never thought madoka is also victorique (gosick) and touru (a-channel) =)
I suggest you investigate them all. Madoka being Victorique is not nearly as hilarious as Mami being the Great Overlord Laharl, Homura being Rebecca Miyamoto, Sayaka being Ami Kawashima, Kyouko being Fuura Kafuka and Kyuubey being Kagami Hiiragi. Oh, and Junko being Mikuru Asahina, of course.
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Old 2011-05-08, 12:04   Link #56
MartianMage
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I usually just reserve my 10/10 vote after the BD/DVD retouches but for this one I'll just go ahead and give it a 10. Really enjoyed this series a lot and it was a blast reading all the speculations and reactions to this show.
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Homura: Die monster! You don't belong in this world!
Kyubey: It was not by my hand that I am once again given flesh. I was called here by humans who wish to pay me tribute.
Homura: Tribute? You steal girls's souls, and make them your slaves!
Kyubey: Perhaps the same could be said of all religions.
Homura: Your words are as empty as your soul! Lolis ill-needs a savior such as you!
Kyubey: What is a loli? A miserable little pile of moe! But enough talk...have at you!
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Old 2011-05-08, 12:59   Link #57
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Wow, it is the first time I don't see a single vote below 7...
There would be if roriconfan and Kaijo were here.

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stop this shit, ok?
...

Stop what?
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Old 2011-05-09, 05:23   Link #58
kaigan
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Originally Posted by Snork View Post
I suggest you investigate them all. Madoka being Victorique is not nearly as hilarious as Mami being the Great Overlord Laharl, Homura being Rebecca Miyamoto, Sayaka being Ami Kawashima, Kyouko being Fuura Kafuka and Kyuubey being Kagami Hiiragi. Oh, and Junko being Mikuru Asahina, of course.
i already did well after the show ended i became really curious. i followed homu's va clips in other series in youtube and i never really though who she is i also found out saya's va is nao from oniichan and the pink-haired band member in angel beats. mami's same as agnes from campanella. and i was even more surprised sensei's voice is tomoe yukishiro from kenshin!
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Old 2011-05-09, 05:52   Link #59
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After finishing the series, I must say it's one of the best Mahou Shoujo's I've seen in a long time, Top 20 for me. The premise and story was certainly unique and engaging, if unoriginal and a bit simple. As such the premise of magical powers coming from wishes for benefits and regrets on story and character development feels simple on paper as a neat idea. However the way the premise is presented is surprisingly good in depth and even feels a bit thought provoking as well, a good thing I must say. Homura's wish for example with the "time skip moments" made the story even more compelling as well and left me wondering what are the limitations of such wishes can be. Ending left me bittersweet but in a good and logical way that the story premise unwraps and paces itself nice enough all the way to the end. Actionwise, it's also very solid in fluidity with variety in magical powers and angles.

That's not to say the series is perfect though. Although, I did feel that without set limitations on wishes, the story premise itself with wishes granted for power did feel a bit far fetched at times and the drama under character conflicts... well it was convincing and I was pretty moved in emotion for the characters but I did feel sometimes it was bit too much and it got a bit tedious on me at times. Also, there is a bit of character development lacking for me as we are only presented with few hints on why certain characters made their wish as well as few hints and small simple descriptions about their actual background themselves.

As for everything else, again, awesome artistic animation for me even if the characters do feel a bit too moe-ish for my taste. Soundtrack is great, if unremarkable and voice acting is spot on. Definitely well worth watching thanks to the artistic persentation along with an engaging and unique, if simple premise for powers to boot for the Mahou Shoujo genre. It's certainly one of the better Mahou Shoujo's around, one of my favourites now and definitely worth checking out if you're looking for something unique, easy to get into or just a fan of this type of stuff.

9/10 for me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by haak
There would be if roriconfan and Kaijo were here.
Roriconfan gave it a 6.5/10 saying that the series is far fetched in it's wish for power idea along with saying Princess Tutu is still superior, from what I read of his views. I'm a regular poster from anidb (Faithful), thats why.
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Old 2011-05-09, 06:52   Link #60
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Roriconfan gave it a 6.5/10 saying that the series is far fetched in it's wish for power idea along with saying Princess Tutu is still superior, from what I read of his views. I'm a regular poster from anidb (Faithful), thats why.
Let's be honest here, to say that a story failed what it wanted to do while claiming that the series that came before is superior, while implying that it is because it came first, is hardly an argument.

Your arguments are understandable and I accept well your reasons, while himself on the other hand... well a casual would be more looking at him foaming, flailing his arms and digging in his heels than hearing what he have to say.
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