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Old 2012-06-12, 13:32   Link #41
Ridwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zakoo View Post
I personally still wonder how you define a race for the human being. We arent birds or something like that.

About Africa, i think it s mostly due about their technological retard compared to the 4 others continent. Likewise i m sure when Arabs and ottoman empire were at the top, they must have considered us like some pigs.
The concept of "race" itself is arbitrary. You're basically just picking a token from myriads of phenotypes and then determine them as identity labels for their respective peoples of origins. It does come handy for several purposes, not all of them sinister ones. But that doesn't defeat its inherent artificiality.

Africa lagged in the development because its environment was against it. The main factor was diseases, since Africa is nowhere near short of resources. Not for sub-Sahara anyway. But it developed less since it hosted (and still hosts) so many deadly diseases. Among them, the biggest obstacle to create large societies being Sleeping sickness. You can develop immunity with malaria after constant contact with it for generations, but it seems to be much harder against sleeping sickness, especially when you're a non-sentient cattle. And cattles are a great advantage to those who own them because they provide lots of meat and often also milk, which reduces lactation period for mothers and thus increasing their fertile period. Advanced societies need a lot of people.

In addition to that, Africa also has all assorted varieties of scary creatures that force you to watch your every step everywhere you go with few safe places far and between, so expansions of cultures were pretty limited.


As for the musslemen, you're correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
1) I like racism to some light interpersonal extent. But when the law itself is racially prejudice, I'd be really offended and angry.

Racism is like AIDS, spreads and I'd believe to be impossible to cure. No matter how much I wish I was unbiased, I'm still a racist on the inside. I just shut up whenever I have something racist in mind.


2) I don't see the logic in this. Racism today has nothing to do with where we all originated from. As of right now, Africans appear different and live differently than non africans (and South Africans).

3) It's mostly cultural profiling. A lot of white supremecists bash jews. From my Asian perspective, a Jewish person looks pretty caucasian to me lol. For them, it's religion and culture.
1) I just shut up whenever either Nassir blows up stuff, Luis stealing jobs or Tun Razak claiming my kultjur.

There is being ironically racist, and there is being actually racist.

The first means you engage in racist jokes by essentially ridiculing the racism and stereotypes involved.

The later usually takes form in empathically swallowing up the stereotypes and reputation of a certain ethno-cultural group. If you don't like a jew person for being a jew and "does what jews do", then you deserve to receive whatever consequences that follows.

Which one that you do ?

Indeed, the single most effective weapon against racism is education. While there will always be an "other", at least stay away from anything that reeks cultural determinism. But most people only do that after they've learned to.

2) It's your usual "respect the elders" stuff.

3) Bingo. And it all comes down to the extensive historical circumstances behind it.
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Last edited by Ridwan; 2012-06-12 at 13:45.
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Old 2012-06-12, 13:36   Link #42
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I like racism to some light interpersonal extent. But when the law itself is racially prejudice, I'd be really offended and angry.

Racism is like AIDS, spreads and I'd believe to be impossible to cure. No matter how much I wish I was unbiased, I'm still a racist on the inside. I just shut up whenever I have something racist in mind.


I don't see the logic in this. Racism today has nothing to do with where we all originated from. As of right now, Africans appear different and live differently than non africans (and South Africans).

It's mostly cultural profiling. A lot of white supremecists bash jews. From my Asian perspective, a Jewish person looks pretty caucasian to me lol. For them, it's religion and culture.
The problem neo-nazi-idiots don't grasp is that "jew" isn't a race -- it is a religion and culture. People calling themselves "jewish" come from all over the genetic pool. But its just another example of stupidity and racism running arm-in-arm.

Racism stems from ancient tribal distrust of the "other". Some tribes are even known historically to consider themselves the only "humans" and everyone else to be lesser. Often their special God has conferred that special status on them.

Racism also erupts from perceived competition for resources. The immigrants (anyone newer than me!!!!) are often viewed this way --- even if they're simply country folk who have moved to the city and you can't tell the difference until they talk or perhaps the clothes they wear.

Racism almost always requires belief in deluded fantasies, non-scientific assertions, low self-esteem (must find someone to make lower than me!!)...

I'm not going to deny any racist tendencies (as the Excellent Avenue Q song notes) but usually when I feel uncomfortable, it isn't because I have misconceptions about *them* its because I'm concerned they have misconceptions about *me*. Lets say you're eating in a restaurant where the primary language is one you don't know. A bunch of men are sitting near by - looking at you, talking, and laughing while they look at you. It would be irrational *not* to be at least wary.
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Old 2012-06-12, 13:42   Link #43
Ridwan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
I'm not going to deny any racist tendencies (as the Excellent Avenue Q song notes) but usually when I feel uncomfortable, it isn't because I have misconceptions about *them* its because I'm concerned they have misconceptions about *me*. Lets say you're eating in a restaurant where the primary language is one you don't know. A bunch of men are sitting near by - looking at you, talking, and laughing while they look at you. It would be irrational *not* to be at least wary.
Being uncomfortable with people different from you is not being racist. It's an excuse for racism.
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Old 2012-06-12, 14:25   Link #44
Paranoid Android
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I just remembered, my biggest peeve, is people who don't tolerate foreign languages and bug the speaker about it.

Like one time I was on a bus in Toronto and someone asked me for directions in Mandarin. I figured he was a tourist or an immigrant so I replied him in mandarin in a light voice. Then one guy literally screams from the other end of the bus "This is Canada, we speak English, go back to your country if you are going to talk like that".

Same goes for speaking English in Quebec, Canada. Oh so much hate from random people.
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Old 2012-06-12, 14:29   Link #45
fanty
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I just remembered, my biggest peeve, is people who don't tolerate foreign languages and bug the speaker about it.

Like one time I was on a bus in Toronto and someone asked me for directions in Mandarin. I figured he was a tourist or an immigrant so I replied him in mandarin in a light voice. Then one guy literally screams from the other end of the bus "This is Canada, we speak English, go back to your country if you are going to talk like that".

Same goes for speaking English in Quebec, Canada. Oh so much hate from random people.
My brother was once walking down the street with his friend, both speaking Polish, and a few random guys started harassing them about it. I've heard other people encountering that sort of thing too, but I personally never have, and I'm really glad about that, it would be kind of scary.
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Old 2012-06-12, 14:33   Link #46
Haladflire65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I just remembered, my biggest peeve, is people who don't tolerate foreign languages and bug the speaker about it.

Like one time I was on a bus in Toronto and someone asked me for directions in Mandarin. I figured he was a tourist or an immigrant so I replied him in mandarin in a light voice. Then one guy literally screams from the other end of the bus "This is Canada, we speak English, go back to your country if you are going to talk like that".

Same goes for speaking English in Quebec, Canada. Oh so much hate from random people.
Wow, this happened in T.O.? I've never seen that kind of thing happen here but that's probably cause I don't get out enough

There was an incident recently in Korea where a lady was speaking English and another lady went and beat her up for it... but I suppose it was a bit different because the English-speaking one was also Korean, so she might've been showing off...

But in my boarding school, we have a lot of Asian students and the authorities would really get on our issues if we speak our languages, telling us that it's super rude and such - but they wouldn't say anything when the Mexican kids spoke Spanish or the Russians spoke Russian. Now that was annoying
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Old 2012-06-12, 14:51   Link #47
Paranoid Android
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I take busses a lot. I move from Kitchener/WAterloo/Cambridge to Mississauga to Toronto to Oshawa on a monthly basis. Car insurance + gas is too expensive so I don't drive. Seen all kinds of BS.

The biggest BS is when the bus is full except the seat beside me and a hot girl walks in and she decides to lean against the pole by the back door. kehehe xD

Highschool was alright for me. French teacher would always yell at me for speaking english in french class. She's totally right. But I'm just terrible language student. Took french up to grade 11 and now I can barely speak any of it -.-. Reading and writing is alright though.
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Old 2012-06-12, 16:25   Link #48
LeoXiao
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As a mixed Chinese/Caucasian, I haven't actually gotten too much overt racism before. Recently, when I asked a pair of Chinese a question after a lecture (I think I was asleep and thought I may have missed something), they didn't even answer at first and instead briefly debated among themselves if I was either a Chinese minority (like Turkic or Tibetan) or Eurasian. I had to ask them the question again to get them to answer.

But these events are really very rare. If white people are racist towards me it's even rarer to the point that I would'nt be able to discern it as discrimination most of the time. Usually if anyone makes a point about my race it's a compliment (usually from Asians) about my height, eyes, or pale skin.

So, no major issues here.

Last edited by LeoXiao; 2014-01-13 at 11:27.
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Old 2012-06-12, 16:44   Link #49
Vexx
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Ah... this incident is actually kind of funny in regard to the language racism... my wife (japanese) and I (white 32 flavors) were volunteering in the high school football stadium concession stand. Helping us were two members of our soccer team (whom we knew) who are Latino. They were talking to each other in Spanish. After a moment of listening, my wife says in her finest tsuntsun voice: "Does your *mother* know you talk about girls like that?" Commence deep red shades of embarrassment.

They had been checking out girls and talking about their attributes in a coarse way. What they didn't know was that I know a fair amount of Tex-mex and my wife had three years of high school spanish under her belt as well as a lot of other experience. They had simply assumed.... it was like that car commercial recently with the Chinese couple talking openly about gaming the salesman. Once they select the car, the salesman bows and answers that he'll get the paperwork in fluent Chinese.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Paranoid Android
Like one time I was on a bus in Toronto and someone asked me for directions in Mandarin. I figured he was a tourist or an immigrant so I replied him in mandarin in a light voice. Then one guy literally screams from the other end of the bus "This is Canada, we speak English, go back to your country if you are going to talk like that".
Too bad you two couldn't have continued the conversation in French... ( or heavy Cockney English )
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Old 2012-06-12, 16:51   Link #50
erneiz_hyde
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
I don't see the logic in this. Racism today has nothing to do with where we all originated from. As of right now, Africans appear different and live differently than non africans (and South Africans).

It's mostly cultural profiling. A lot of white supremecists bash jews. From my Asian perspective, a Jewish person looks pretty caucasian to me lol. For them, it's religion and culture.
I meant it in the sense of "purity". If we're all originated from Africans (i.e blacks), then Africans should hold the supremacy because they're still closer to the original. But yeah I guess, racism isn't really built on logic.
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Old 2012-06-12, 16:51   Link #51
Sumeragi
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What's also funny is when I write back in literary Chinese as some people were dissing me in colloquial Chinese (in the context of a browser-based game). That got them to shut up quickly and show respect.
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Old 2012-06-12, 16:54   Link #52
LeoXiao
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You know literary Chinese? What kind of stuff did you write?

Last edited by LeoXiao; 2014-01-13 at 11:26.
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Old 2012-06-12, 17:00   Link #53
Sumeragi
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我知道你在說什麼.

It becomes wacky when I have to handle a four language convo (English, Japanese, Korean, Traditional Chinese).
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Old 2012-06-12, 17:10   Link #54
MUAHAHAHAHAHA
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Being a member of a multicultural country, I see subtle signs of racism anywhere and everywhere. I will say it right here;I'm a bit of a racist myself. I guess racism partly stems from ethnocentrism. Some of us judge other cultural groups using our own cultural values as a yardstick to judge. I find myself doing that sometimes. For instance, I'm a Chinese (I am NOT from China btw), and we are taught that teachers represent authority, which means they must be greeted with proper titles, like Miss or Mrs. However, having been in the UK for several years now, for a period of time, I have noticed that university students do not address lecturers with titles such as Mr or Miss. Lecturers are called by their names. If I were to do that in my country, I would be skinned alive and accused of being disrespectful. So initially, I had the impression that UK lecturers are not treated with much respect and I was like "Brits really need more manners". Presently, I am used to such practice and no longer find it an act of disrespect. It's simply the way things are conducted according to the British culture. So my conclusion is this: Most of us, if not all will be a racist to a certain extent, and racism can only be dispelled once we experience the culture itself.
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Old 2012-06-13, 00:25   Link #55
LeoXiao
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
我知道你在說什麼.
Oh, I thought you meant literary Chinese, as in the super-condensed, cryptic ancient stuff that ancient texts like Daodejing and the Art of War were written in.
What you have there is just plain old vernacular.

Speaking of Chinese people, my cousin (who is fully Chinese, but US-raised) once overheard some Chinese people talking behind her back in the elevator, assuming she was Korean and couldn't understand them. They were talking about her attractive looks being stereotypically Korean or something, and then when the elevator stopped, my cousin turned around and said to the effect of "if you want to tell me something you can say it directly, I can understand you." The other Chinese were shocked and barely had time to say "well, it's not like we were saying anything bad about you!" before she left.

Quote:
It becomes wacky when I have to handle a four language convo (English, Japanese, Korean, Traditional Chinese).
At the same time!?
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Old 2012-06-13, 00:42   Link #56
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
Oh, I thought you meant literary Chinese, as in the super-condensed, cryptic ancient stuff that ancient texts like Daodejing and the Art of War were written in.
What you have there is just plain old vernacular.
That is how I actually write longer stuff. I've been educated in East Asian characters by my mother and in the Korean school system, which uses mainly classicals.


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At the same time!?
Yes. It's hell to try typing all that, so I use a Korean keyboard, which allows the easiest conversions to Japanese and Chinese.
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Old 2012-06-13, 12:52   Link #57
word sux
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People speaking languages I don't know do not bother me..

Except in the work place, that will drive me up the wall. If everyone at the job speaks perfect english then there is no need to suddenly start speaking to your buddies in spanish, unless you are saying things you don't want everyone else to hear. I have worked with some cocky hispanic jerks that while you were giving them instructions on what they need to do they would mutter derogatory things to each other about me while I was trying to instruct them. I know they were derogatory because I would remember some of the things they would say and then ask my room mate who is hispanic and he would tell me what they are saying. But I can't say, no speaking spanish on the job site because then I am a racist.
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Old 2012-06-13, 17:16   Link #58
Vexx
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Originally Posted by word sux View Post
People speaking languages I don't know do not bother me..

Except in the work place, that will drive me up the wall. If everyone at the job speaks perfect english then there is no need to suddenly start speaking to your buddies in spanish, unless you are saying things you don't want everyone else to hear. I have worked with some cocky hispanic jerks that while you were giving them instructions on what they need to do they would mutter derogatory things to each other about me while I was trying to instruct them. I know they were derogatory because I would remember some of the things they would say and then ask my room mate who is hispanic and he would tell me what they are saying. But I can't say, no speaking spanish on the job site because then I am a racist.
No, you *can* require one language at a workplace while doing work - it is essential for business function. People speaking in a language they don't think you know *while* you are managing them is right out. They can cuss you all they want afterwards - but not DURING the interaction.
Check with your HR but I'd be all over them for that kind of juvenile behavior.

Here's an idea, give the instruction in a language THEY don't know and then write them up when they don't follow them... that's a bit of hyperbole but it might make a point.

Most businesses make an active effort to have bilingual-tri-quad capability but generally there's ONE language to be used for internal operations.
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Old 2012-06-13, 22:07   Link #59
NoemiChan
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My issue will be about tribal/religious differences in Mindanao, Philippines. I'm half Tausug and half Bicolano, born of parents from two major religions of our Republic.

I explain their perceptions.

Some Tausugs (mostly provincial) think themselves as superior as a race alone and think Christians are inferior... the funny thing is that most of them enrolls in Christian schools.

Christian (devoted/ city born) think of us as barbarians due to the ASG insurgents which I personally hate myself for ruining the image of our race. Many of us are actually friendly.

Anyway, I'm curious how racists think. Whats makes one superior to the the other? Color? Race? Religion? Quality of Living? Whatever your reasons is, our insides are just the same. We all bleed..
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Old 2012-06-13, 23:25   Link #60
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
My issue will be about tribal/religious differences in Mindanao, Philippines. I'm half Tausug and half Bicolano, born of parents from two major religions of our Republic.

I explain their perceptions.

Some Tausugs (mostly provincial) think themselves as superior as a race alone and think Christians are inferior... the funny thing is that most of them enrolls in Christian schools.

Christian (devoted/ city born) think of us as barbarians due to the ASG insurgents which I personally hate myself for ruining the image of our race. Many of us are actually friendly.

Anyway, I'm curious how racists think. Whats makes one superior to the the other? Color? Race? Religion? Quality of Living? Whatever your reasons is, our insides are just the same. We all bleed..
At some base level they're lying to themselves - creating a false sense of superiority to justify their own lousy situation or to cement a power dominance.
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