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Old 2011-05-15, 05:29   Link #1
Taufiq91
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Anime and how it made me say "This is what the BBC/NBC/AMC/CBC should be making!"

When i finished watching Code Geass S1 yesterday, my thoughts said:

"This is the type of stuff the BBC should be making with its license fee instead of making crap sitcoms and reality shows!"

Stuff like Code Geass is perfect for a Saturday Night BBC2 programming next to Doctor Who, whereas the likes of Durarara!! is something that i think should have been done by AMC or HBO.

In an age where shows like Firefly gets cancelled in favour of crap reality shows, i wish that Western TV networks are able to create something in a Durarara!!/Geass/Madoka style of amazingness. Hell, NBC almost had their own live action Geass with a show called "Kings", and they cancelled it instead because they prefer creating racist comedies about outsourced Americans in India.

And the BBC, for a TV network that relies on public support for Doctor Who would rather have most of the money not used on Doctor Who to create shitty sitcoms on BBC3, when instead they could be making something like Code Geass, possibly Jane Austen with mechas and violence. I'd watch that shit, and most Brits would watch that too.

Seriously, with people complaining about animes today, they probably haven't watched alot of live action network TV. I wish Western TV materials are as engaging and challenging as their Japanese animated counterparts. It's no wonder i stopped watching TV.
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Old 2011-05-15, 07:24   Link #2
DonQuigleone
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Hey, don't diss the BBC. They make lots of great stuff. I'll admit I'm not a fan of Dr. Who and whatnot, though many others are. Likewise they still pump out great dramas and comedy programs. And they're unparalleled in documentary making and current affairs.

BBC is the best broadcaster in the world hands down. Though Channel 4 is pretty good too. For comparison, it's rare to find any broadcaster across the world that manages to elevate itself beyond ITV quality level, which you'd probably know is pretty terrible. All X-factor and Coronation street. Urgh.

But really, I love the Beeb! If I'm not watching BBC TV, I'm listening to BBC Radio. (Radio 4 FTW!!! Gotta love Just a minute...).

Frankly, while I do like Anime, from watching Japanese television generally, we're way above them. NHK wishes it was the BBC.

Though I'll admit that I hate Eastenders, Strictly Come Dancing and Antique Roadshow. But those shows are real popular so...
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Old 2011-05-15, 07:38   Link #3
cyth
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Firefly was a fun, sometimes silly and occasionally serious show with great characters, but citing it as engaging and challenging I'd say is a bit of a stretch. If you're going to watch Code Geass R2, let me warn you ahead that it shares a similar fate as Kings. Their writers were overly ambitious. Code Geass R2 changed in tone from the first season due to timing issues, Kings simply got cancelled. By the way, Outsourced just got cancelled as well.

I usually like your troll threads, they produce some good discussions, but I'm just not feeling it this time around. 6/10
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Old 2011-05-15, 07:52   Link #4
Taufiq91
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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
Hey, don't diss the BBC. They make lots of great stuff. I'll admit I'm not a fan of Dr. Who and whatnot, though many others are. Likewise they still pump out great dramas and comedy programs. And they're unparalleled in documentary making and current affairs.

BBC is the best broadcaster in the world hands down. Though Channel 4 is pretty good too. For comparison, it's rare to find any broadcaster across the world that manages to elevate itself beyond ITV quality level, which you'd probably know is pretty terrible. All X-factor and Coronation street. Urgh.

But really, I love the Beeb! If I'm not watching BBC TV, I'm listening to BBC Radio. (Radio 4 FTW!!! Gotta love Just a minute...).

Frankly, while I do like Anime, from watching Japanese television generally, we're way above them. NHK wishes it was the BBC.

Though I'll admit that I hate Eastenders, Strictly Come Dancing and Antique Roadshow. But those shows are real popular so...
I am a strong supporter of the licensing fee, and the BBC is no exception. I love Doctor Who, Holmes, Torchwood COE and Jekyll, but most of these shows are becoming more of an exception than a rule.

The 50's to the 80's were the eras that gave birth to British Sci-Fi, Horror and Speculative Fantasy. Look at stuff like the Quatermass Experiment, The Day of the Triffids, Survivors, Threads, Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Red Dwarf. The BBC were making their own noitamina-style quality TV filled with imaginative ideas.

But for some reason we are seeing less and less of that, and had to rely on Doctor Who writers to remake classic horror/sci-fi stories once every two years because some twats think that the licensing fee should be spent on John Sargent dancing live on TV instead.

And look at BBC3. Look at BBC3. Outside of Monkey Dust, The Mighty Boosh and 25 Storeys High(all 3 which are brilliant), the rest of it is pure waste of licensing fee money. They could have just imported Adult Swim animes instead of having Justin Lee Collins prancing around.

And they don't even give alot of funding for British animation these days. I mean, there should be shows like Monkey Dust, a brilliant animated comedy that is as amazing as Zetsubou Sensei. But the money from licensing fee is not used to improve the animation industry sadly.
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Old 2011-05-15, 07:53   Link #5
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You know, Code Geass is a very weak choice on your part to make this argument. Something like Hyouge Mono, Mononoke, Mushishi, Aoi Bungaku, House of Five Leaves, Tatami Galaxy, Haibane Renmei etc. etc. would at least validate your arguments somewhat.

And BBC is BBC because it's BBC. I wouldn't want Code Geass on BBC. Never. Heck I don't want another Code Geass at all. That show is so overrated.
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Old 2011-05-15, 08:30   Link #6
DonQuigleone
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Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
I am a strong supporter of the licensing fee, and the BBC is no exception. I love Doctor Who, Holmes, Torchwood COE and Jekyll, but most of these shows are becoming more of an exception than a rule.

The 50's to the 80's were the eras that gave birth to British Sci-Fi, Horror and Speculative Fantasy. Look at stuff like the Quatermass Experiment, The Day of the Triffids, Survivors, Threads, Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy and Red Dwarf. The BBC were making their own noitamina-style quality TV filled with imaginative ideas.

But for some reason we are seeing less and less of that, and had to rely on Doctor Who writers to remake classic horror/sci-fi stories once every two years because some twats think that the licensing fee should be spent on John Sargent dancing live on TV instead.

And look at BBC3. Look at BBC3. Outside of Monkey Dust, The Mighty Boosh and 25 Storeys High(all 3 which are brilliant), the rest of it is pure waste of licensing fee money. They could have just imported Adult Swim animes instead of having Justin Lee Collins prancing around.

And they don't even give alot of funding for British animation these days. I mean, there should be shows like Monkey Dust, a brilliant animated comedy that is as amazing as Zetsubou Sensei. But the money from licensing fee is not used to improve the animation industry sadly.
I can't really comment on BBC3, I don't get it (I'm relying on a good auld antenna), but my impression of BBC3 was that it was to be used for experimentation, with the more succesful BBC3 titles moving to 2 or 1, so I wouldn't expect the heights of quality from 3. It's 2 and 1 you've got to watch for their top of the line stuff. I think it's a good thing that they do have BBC 3 as a place to try new things, that may or may not be good.

Now I'll admit, BBC doesn't make a whole lot of Sci-Fi, and I would like them to make more certainly, but I don't think Sci-Fi is really the Beeb's main strength. Their big strength is documentaries, current affairs, children's shows, home and Garden shows, dramas (including costume dramas) and a smattering of Reality TV. They also produce a healthy amount of Comedy, though much of this is in fact oursourced. In all of these they are consistently above average.

Now we will all have shows on the BBC we don't like, but we have to remember that the BBC as a public broadcaster has to make shows to everyone's tastes, and as you know that's not something most people agree on. Inevitably the BBC will make shows that you don't like. And inevitably they will also make shows that noone likes at all. But I see nothing wrong with that. The BBC should experiment with new things. Occasionally they will be successes (The Private Life of Plants, a documentary on Plants? Turned out it was amazing.) and occasionally they will be utter failures (I saw one nature program that was a "CSI meets the serenghetti" with David Attenborough narratting. Worst Nature Show EVER. It was unspeakably terrible.)

Suffice to say, I think the BBC is on a good run at the moment. ITV though has gone down the tubes. Used to have some good stuff, now it's got almost nothing.

I would like some more "scheming" type shows like I Claudius. But a lot of their recent attempts at that have been passable so...
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Old 2011-05-15, 08:43   Link #7
Kyuu
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Originally Posted by Taufiq91 View Post
Seriously, with people complaining about animes today, they probably haven't watched alot of live action network TV. I wish Western TV materials are as engaging and challenging as their Japanese animated counterparts. It's no wonder i stopped watching TV.
Obviously, you've missed the 80's when TV was actually good. I'm not sure about the 60's and 70's. I wasn't born then. Either way, the sitcom has long been a staple to television. It allowed series to be long running, as well as, portable (able to be shown in reruns). This explains why everything is "episodic".

Unfortunately, Western TV has been going down the tubes for the past 10-15 years.
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Old 2011-05-15, 09:08   Link #8
Masuzu
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hhhmmm...what's BBC? never heard of it

then again, when was the last time i used television, or a phone
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Old 2011-05-15, 09:22   Link #9
DonQuigleone
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Obviously, you've missed the 80's when TV was actually good. I'm not sure about the 60's and 70's. I wasn't born then. Either way, the sitcom has long been a staple to television. It allowed series to be long running, as well as, portable (able to be shown in reruns). This explains why everything is "episodic".

Unfortunately, Western TV has been going down the tubes for the past 10-15 years.
You haven't watched enough BBC! BBC Sitcoms are rarely long runners (Last of the Summer Wine I suppose...). However BBC Comedies are still episodic (well it is a comedy...). But anyway, I don't see how Western TV has been going down the tubes for the last 15 years, even in America it's better then ever, bar the proliferation of Reality TV. 80s television was awful, and 90s not a whole lot better (though the BBC was as good back then as now...). If we talk american shows, you didn't find shows like the Sopranos, Dexter, Mad Men, Arrested Development etc. etc. 20 years ago.

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hhhmmm...what's BBC? never heard of it

then again, when was the last time i used television, or a phone
You living under a rock? British Broadcasting Corporation. It's the largest Broadcaster in the world, is the state broadcaster of the UK, operates international television and radio stations across the world, and has no ads whatsoever. Top class.

Am I a BBC fanboy? Yes I am. And I don't even pay the license fee! I wish i could though, instead we have to pay to RTE... Which is waaay worse then the BBC.
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Old 2011-05-15, 12:16   Link #10
Haak
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Da_Box probably doesn't live the the UK. Anyway I don't really watch any shows from the BBC. In fact I don't really watch any western shows besides comedies (and I hate Doctor Who). If BBC still has Have I Got News For You and QI then I'm satisfied.
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Old 2011-05-15, 12:47   Link #11
james0246
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Personally, I've wanted the BBC to buy the rights to Monster and make it into a live action British television series...that would be amazing .

That being said, no anime should be shown on the BBC (at least not as part of a primetime schedule). I'd prefer for any Western channel to simply program their own animated shows rather than taking them from other countries...though I doubt the BBC would ever give a budget for a properly animated show.
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Old 2011-05-15, 12:53   Link #12
Kyuu
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You haven't watched enough BBC! BBC Sitcoms are rarely long runners (Last of the Summer Wine I suppose...). However BBC Comedies are still episodic (well it is a comedy...). But anyway, I don't see how Western TV has been going down the tubes for the last 15 years, even in America it's better then ever, bar the proliferation of Reality TV. 80s television was awful, and 90s not a whole lot better (though the BBC was as good back then as now...). If we talk american shows, you didn't find shows like the Sopranos, Dexter, Mad Men, Arrested Development etc. etc. 20 years ago.

You living under a rock? British Broadcasting Corporation. It's the largest Broadcaster in the world, is the state broadcaster of the UK, operates international television and radio stations across the world, and has no ads whatsoever. Top class.

Am I a BBC fanboy? Yes I am. And I don't even pay the license fee! I wish i could though, instead we have to pay to RTE... Which is waaay worse then the BBC.
Here's one problem with Network TV back in the day. They're limited to regional broadcasting. This was more prevalent in the dawning ages of Cable TV. Despite the size of the BBC, it barely penetrated the American market in the 80's and 90's -- when local TV channels were still the main channels. Cable TV did not see much growth in America until the 90's. Even then, BBC was not available in America - as far as I knew.

Personally, I didn't even know that the BBC existed until the 2000's. It wasn't until the middle of the previous decade when I decided to outright give up TV all-together. I've limited my viewership to sports, particularly football (no, not soccer).

Also, it's not good to be a fanboy. It makes you lose perspective. Just because you grew up under the BBC, that doesn't mean everyone on the planet did the same. Likewise, I can say about American TV or anything other.

Yet, as for news, I do turn to the BBC's website. It's not affected by American corporate and political influence. Seriously, even our news on this side of the Atlantic has gone down the toilet.
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Old 2011-05-15, 13:13   Link #13
james0246
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Here's one problem with Network TV back in the day. They're limited to regional broadcasting. This was more prevalent in the dawning ages of Cable TV. Despite the size of the BBC, it barely penetrated the American market in the 80's and 90's -- when local TV channels were still the main channels. Cable TV did not see much growth in America until the 90's.
That is simply not true. PBS has made a killing (figuratively speaking, since they are a non-profit) off of BBC programming for 40 some years, bringing Monty Python, Black Adder, Red Dwarf, I, Claudius (and other Masterpiece Theatre productions/releases), Prime Suspect, etc to America. (Hell, PBS (depending on the region) even showed anime back in the day...albeit during their midnight block.)

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Personally, I didn't even know that the BBC existed until the 2000's.
BBC America launched in 1998, but their shows have been on local American television for decades...
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Old 2011-05-15, 14:24   Link #14
DonQuigleone
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Here's one problem with Network TV back in the day. They're limited to regional broadcasting. This was more prevalent in the dawning ages of Cable TV. Despite the size of the BBC, it barely penetrated the American market in the 80's and 90's -- when local TV channels were still the main channels. Cable TV did not see much growth in America until the 90's. Even then, BBC was not available in America - as far as I knew.

Personally, I didn't even know that the BBC existed until the 2000's. It wasn't until the middle of the previous decade when I decided to outright give up TV all-together. I've limited my viewership to sports, particularly football (no, not soccer).

Also, it's not good to be a fanboy. It makes you lose perspective. Just because you grew up under the BBC, that doesn't mean everyone on the planet did the same. Likewise, I can say about American TV or anything other.

Yet, as for news, I do turn to the BBC's website. It's not affected by American corporate and political influence. Seriously, even our news on this side of the Atlantic has gone down the toilet.
I use the word fanboy figuratively. I don't like everything the BBC produces (I don't like Dr. Who for instance), I didn't even really grow up with it (only really got access to it when I was 12 or so). It's more that the BBC has earned my respect from producing a lot of great programming, particularly their documentaries. American documentaries I have seen are almost all inferior, particularly Discovery Channel, History Channel etc. The only broadcaster that is on par in quality is Channel 4, but it produces a much more limited output.

The BBC has a big worldwide audience (though not usually in the US, for reasons you have mentioned). It is perhaps the most influential broadcaster in the world. Obviously I wouldn't expect most Americans to be absolutely familiar with it (for one thing it's incredibly difficult to get any BBC programming outside PBS, and BBC world is inferior to the real deal, being ad supported for one).

BBC Radio is also some of the best in the world. The only talk radio I've found to rival it is the American NPR. But NPR is still not quite as good as the BBC.

The BBC is pretty widely listened and watched around the world as the premier English language service.

As an Irishman, I'm often loath to give Britain any complements, but I do think they've got the best TV and Radio, at least in English. America's not bad either, but generally American Media is much poorer outside entertainment. News channels are joke ("Faux" News, CNN and MSNBC aren't a whole lot better.), and documentaries are also generally poor. I think it's because there isn't much profit motive in producing documentaries and news. Good Non-sensalionistic news isn't a big money spinner, nor are high quality documentaries about stuff that isn't BigFoot (looking at you history channel...).

I will say though, that in News Broadcasting Al Jazeera is also very good. Which may be partly due to the fact that many of the beginning journalists were from BBC Arabic. Quite a few of their lineup was sniped from the BBC actually (Nick Frost for instance).

To avoid this seeming too rosy, BBC also produces plenty of crap too. I despise Strictly come dancing, antique roadshow, trading rooms and ground force. British afternoon television is as bad as any other countries, unfortunately.
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Old 2011-05-15, 14:26   Link #15
Kyuu
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That is simply not true. PBS has made a killing (figuratively speaking, since they are a non-profit) off of BBC programming for 40 some years, bringing Monty Python, Black Adder, Red Dwarf, I, Claudius (and other Masterpiece Theatre productions/releases), Prime Suspect, etc to America. (Hell, PBS (depending on the region) even showed anime back in the day...albeit during their midnight block.)
Aside from Monty Python - I have not seen one second of the other shows. If it weren't for my friends exposing me to Holy Grail, I never would have known about Monty Python at all. And I've barely heard about Masterpiece Theater. If British TV had to resort to public television to penetrate the American market during the 80s... that's... not... impressive. Quite frankly, most of the American TV ratings went to big networks of NBC, ABC, and CBS during the 80's.


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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
American documentaries I have seen are almost all inferior, particularly Discovery Channel, History Channel etc. The only broadcaster that is on par in quality is Channel 4, but it produces a much more limited output.
I'll have to agree. And I doubt Americans here remotely pay attention to documentaries anymore. And that's pretty sad.

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Originally Posted by DonQuigleone View Post
America's not bad either, but generally American Media is much poorer outside entertainment. News channels are joke ("Faux" News, CNN and MSNBC aren't a whole lot better.),
And the domination of "American sensationalism"... that has me turned off from American TV in general. This is a clear sign of how far America has fallen. It's been outright retarded.

The only thing I really watch nowadays is sports.
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Old 2011-05-15, 14:32   Link #16
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Obviously, you've missed the 80's when TV was actually good.
But wasn't everything better X years ago?
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Old 2011-05-15, 14:42   Link #17
Kyuu
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But wasn't everything better X years ago?
If you prefer yester-year's AOL vs today's Internet, you're off your rocker.

And yes. American news reporting was pretty darned good - UNTIL - the 24-hour news cycle kicked in. The news reporting has gone downhill ever since. Faux News by far sets itself apart as the worst.

Anyways, what's been the thing with American TV lately? Two and a Half Men? Lol, Charlie Sheen. I haven't been watching TV for the past 4-5 years, aside from sports. And I know the likes of Lost and Heroes was big a couple years back. Throw in House and Futurama. Maybe even a few other shows. I don't know what else people have been raving about lately.
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Old 2011-05-15, 14:52   Link #18
Haak
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Having an animated version of Top Gear would be pretty damn hilarious...
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Old 2011-05-15, 22:03   Link #19
DonQuigleone
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Aside from Monty Python - I have not seen one second of the other shows. If it weren't for my friends exposing me to Holy Grail, I never would have known about Monty Python at all. And I've barely heard about Masterpiece Theater. If British TV had to resort to public television to penetrate the American market during the 80s... that's... not... impressive. Quite frankly, most of the American TV ratings went to big networks of NBC, ABC, and CBS during the 80's.
Don't know what you're missing...

As an example of top BBC quality, here's a documentary I just listened to, about Russia.

That's what I'm talking about. NPR can also be pretty good, like this.

Alas, NPR is but a drop in the ocean.
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Old 2011-05-15, 22:21   Link #20
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It's more that the BBC has earned my respect from producing a lot of great programming, particularly their documentaries. American documentaries I have seen are almost all inferior, particularly Discovery Channel, History Channel etc. The only broadcaster that is on par in quality is Channel 4, but it produces a much more limited output.
Definitely agree there. I'd say British documentaries in general are better, plus they've got David Attenborough on their side

In the case of anime I believe that its current air-time on American television at least is probably appropriate. What's mainly behind this is economics, anime is a distinctly Japanese creation and not all series can easily make the transition into the American market. The anime most likely to make the jump are ones aimed at younger boys as cartoons are associated with children in the US from my anecdotal observations.
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