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Old 2011-11-13, 20:04   Link #2121
Archon_Wing
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On the subject of fanservice...

The problem with this is that while the desire for less cliched fanservice and the less of need to point to it is that a certain other good looking series with a good soundtrack was done about 6 1/2 years years in the form of an anime called Mai-HiME, which I still consider the king of modern fanservice-based silly anime. While everyone praises Kaijura for her work in Madoka, I trace her work back to this.

It could be said that same kind of criticisms could be directed to Mai-HiME too (I believe Mr. Yoshino did that too) It also had those ridiculous skin tight bodysuits, giant boobs, and random ecchi jokes to the max. The male characters were not very good (If Shu has an edge on anyone, it'd be THOSE guys ) and the final villains were extremely cartoony and questionable. Random plot twists out of the wazoo

Yet Mai-HiME never really offended me outside of that god awful panty episode and THAT near the end. Not one moment did it occur to me that any character in that show was a sex object. They were sexy, but they were not simply dolls for one to think lewd thoughts about. Within 2 episodes, all the major players had a distinct personality. You wouldn't just forget their names and stare below their face. They engaged in a number of dorky and humiliating situations that some would decry as being sexist, pandering, and insulting. But it never came off as that way. Maybe it just remembered to poke fun at itself.

But in any case, you could call many of Mai-HiME's characters cliched and generic. but they did their job. They were people. Most of them weren't people you'd want to just slap or punch out. They had like backgrounds for their characters so you'd know why the hell they'd interact, and the interaction was done in a fluid fashion.

Is it just wrong for me to think that one character cooking a freaking bowl of ramen for another is more convincing that any feelings Shu and Inori might have? Mind you, it was a really good bowl of ramen.

Unfortunately, my like of this franchise would not last, since they pretty much drove the franchise to the ground with Otome (yes I know Otome sells better), focusing too much on fanservice, shock value, fetishes, and none of the warmth HiME had. So when I see this kind of trend here now in here .... I can't but help but feel anything but disdain. They did it right 6 years ago, why not now?

My point is that I'm not inherently opposed to anything Guilty Crown is doing. It's in the manner where I simply can't feel the show is respecting the viewer. It's not giving off the message as "have fun", but more like "get aroused to this". And I reject such notions.

If I really have to compare; the fanservice is closer to that of Hana Saku Iroha; and that was one that constantly distracted us from the narrative, and also the constant humiliation of its cast also rings a bell here. But at least even that series would treat its lead with respect and create someone I can cheer for. It's the same problem here; how can I be expected to not take these characters seriously one moment and expect to be invested in them the next?

It's not like I don't like to not look. I like even blatant stuff like To Love Ru, Kiss x Sis, and hoy anyone watch Bento?

BTW....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Also, I'd argue that Ayase is the most well-developed protagonist thus far, and it's neck-and-neck between her and Major Segai for the most well-developed character thus far. So hey, at least Guilty Crown's writers aren't entirely relying on sex appeal to sell their female characters.
That I could agree with; but it's really up to them to step it up. At this point, they really have a few more episodes to push their other characters.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2011-11-13 at 20:14.
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Old 2011-11-13, 20:24   Link #2122
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Well, Archon, I have to say that I respectfully disagree with you on Guilty Crown's fanservice vs. Mai HiME's.

Honestly, I found a lot of the fanservice in Mai HiME to be pretty loud and obnoxious, which I honestly don't find to be the case in Guilty Crown.

To me, I like steamy sensuous sexuality that's not afraid to be upfront and honest about how it's actual sexuality, and not just "Ha ha!" sexuality where it's trying to be slapstick comedy and sexual fanservice at the same time.

A lot of fanservice moments in anime leave me wondering "should I laugh, or should I be aroused?" which often causes the fanservice to fail on both counts for me, but I thankfully don't have that problem with the fanservice in Guilty Crown. The fanservice in Guilty Crown is better for me precisely because it's not about "having fun" in a general sense, but rather is indeed about arousing the viewer in an admirably straight-up way that nonetheless doesn't distract from the plot. And I honestly don't see what's wrong with such a notion (I'd argue that Mawaru Penguin Drum does much the same with Ringo Oginome and "Penguin Queen" version of Himari).

To me, it's also kind of like Catwoman or Wonder Woman. Yeah, she's sexy, her outfit is sexy, and you can see that in many of the poses that the character is featured in, but the sexiness is simply there, without needlessly drawing attention from the story itself with added slapstick comedy or silly sound effects. So there's a certain elegance and beauty to it for me, and much of the fanservice in Guilty Crown is the same way for me.
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Old 2011-11-13, 20:32   Link #2123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, Archon, I have to say that I respectfully disagree with you on Guilty Crown's fanservice vs. Mai HiME's.

Honestly, I found a lot of the fanservice in Mai HiME to be pretty loud and obnoxious, which I honestly don't find to be the case in Guilty Crown.

To me, I like steamy sensuous sexuality that's not afraid to be upfront and honest about how it's actual sexuality, and not just "Ha ha!" sexuality where it's trying to be slapstick comedy and sexual fanservice at the same time.

A lot of fanservice moments in anime leave me wondering "should I laugh, or should I be aroused?" which often causes the fanservice to fail on both counts for me, but I thankfully don't have that problem with the fanservice in Guilty Crown. The fanservice in Guilty Crown is better for me precisely because it's not about "having fun" in a general sense, but rather is indeed about arousing the viewer in an admirably straight-up way that nonetheless doesn't distract from the plot. And I honestly don't see what's wrong with such a notion (I'd argue that Mawaru Penguin Drum does much the same with Ringo Oginome and "Penguin Queen" version of Himari).

To me, it's also kind of like Catwoman or Wonder Woman. Yeah, she's sexy, her outfit is sexy, and you can see that in many of the poses that the character is featured in, but the sexiness is simply there, without needlessly drawing attention from the story itself with added slapstick comedy or silly sound effects. So there's a certain elegance and beauty to it for me, and much of the fanservice in Guilty Crown is the same way for me.
Hmm, different views on fanservice, I see.

Well, I felt that yea, while Mai-HiME fanservice was pretty loud, it kind of went with the loud and vibrant mood of the series proper.

It's just that Hime's cast is also that too, and personality often affects how this kind of thing works to me. Sure, I can grasp great character designs, but it's something that goes together.

And thus, I felt that I was unable to grasp the nature of Guilty Crown's mood and it just has this negative reaction to me. So it becomes obvious to me why I very much prefer fanservice of Tsugumi (and her butt) and occasionally Ayase since they have much more of a lifesign to them. Though some may argue Inori will make a turnaround soon.

Penguindrum has always come across to me as wacky, and eventually classy, so even the penguin queen and those fabolous outfits don't faze me at all. I like it very much; and Ringo is quite sexy despite not having much to offer in terms of character designs. :3

And yes, I also just felt like poking fun at Mari Okada as a bad example. She should not be allowed to write more than 1 fanservice scene every few episodes.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2011-11-13 at 20:35. Reason: about penguin...
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Old 2011-11-13, 20:40   Link #2124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post

Penguindrum has always come across to me as wacky, and eventually classy, so even the penguin queen and those fabolous outfits don't faze me at all. I like it very much; and Ringo is quite sexy despite not having much to offer in terms of character designs. :3

And yes, I also just felt like poking fun at Mari Okada as a bad example. She should not be allowed to write more than 1 fanservice scene every few episodes.
Well, we agree on Penguindrum and Mari Okada at least.

I also agree with you in that my favorite fanservice moments in Guilty Crown involve Tsumugi and Ayase, while Inori's are more hit-and-miss with me. Character personality may factor into this. Also, I must admit I love those skin-tight bodysuits, no matter how realistic or unrealistic they may be.
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Old 2011-11-13, 20:42   Link #2125
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I find the fanservice plenty obnoxious and degrading as a female viewer. But that's just me.

Anyways I dropped the series. I realized I don't care for either of the main characters (Shu or Inori) and I don't think I can follow this series just for the lulz. I don't even really care about the action eye candy because while the production values are high, I find the style uninteresting. I won't say its horrible but I guess the show just isn't for me.

Everyone else enjoy!


edit: Like Archon Wing I also find the fanservice in Penguindrum perfectly acceptable. Same with the little fanservice we get in Tiger & Bunny with Blue Rose's costume. That type of fanservice doesn't bother me at all. But I know talking about fanservice is probably going to move the thread OT. Maybe it would be an interesting discussion for the general anime boards.
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Old 2011-11-13, 20:42   Link #2126
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, we agree on Penguindrum and Mari Okada at least.

I also agree with you in that my favorite fanservice moments in Guilty Crown involve Tsumugi and Ayase, while Inori's are more hit-and-miss with me. Character personality may factor into this. Also, I must admit I love those skin-tight bodysuits, no matter how realistic or unrealistic they may be.
Skin tight bodysuits is exactly why I brought up Mai-HiME. *cough* Natsuki (and the real reason why I don't like Otome-- I hated their fashion sense)

Also, we can't go a round w/o Okada bashing. XD Oh well, it's a good lesson on how to not present fanservice.
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Old 2011-11-13, 21:28   Link #2127
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I think everyone who is bashing this on the grounds of fanservice should watch a few episodes of Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere. Compared to Horizon, this is nothing. *Maybe this is why I'm not bothered by it. Horizon has desensitized me. *

Horizon..
  • large boobs *check*
  • skin tight uniforms *check*
  • jiggle factor *check*
  • MC fondling girl's boobs *check*

And...Horizon is a nice title. I was crying while watching episode 6. The scene was that good.

Is the fanservice bashing because this is a Noitamina title? *just wondering*
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Old 2011-11-13, 21:33   Link #2128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
I think everyone who is bashing this on the grounds of fanservice should watch a few episodes of Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere. Compared to Horizon, this is nothing.
Yeah but the point is I am not watching Horizon

Although I want to clarify my reason for dropping Guilty Crown is not because of fanservice. There have been series I love that also had fanservice I found degrading but I could live with that because I loved other aspects of the series. The point is I personally don't love other aspect of Guilty Crown.

edit: I am going to miss some of the discussions on here. Reading this thread was probably my favorite part of the series
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Old 2011-11-13, 21:46   Link #2129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
edit: I am going to miss some of the discussions on here. Reading this thread was probably my favorite part of the series
It's my favorite part of the series too. Love the discussions here. I guess I know what it means to be a hater (although I hope I end up liking this show).

On the topic of fanservice, personally, as long as it's not poorly-edited slapstick, I can sort of deal with it. The fanservice in the second episode didn't bother me that much, as I believe in "sex done right sells". Personally though, I think GC's stance on the issue is weird. Especially concerning Inori's costume, since her having that costume is basically like throwing Captain America into his costume without any explanation (like in the 1990 film). It just looks silly and impractical (Although the "reason" I got for why she wears it is pretty hilarious. TW-0 S.E.X. suit FTW).

Edit: And yes, I think Tsugumi's and Ayase's suits are actually practical due to the fact that they pilot mecha. Inori's suit? Jury's out on that one.
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Old 2011-11-13, 22:07   Link #2130
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Like Triple_R, I like this show's fanservice from an aesthetics standpoint (aside from perhaps a bit too much Gainaxing). Inori doesn't do much for me personality wise though. Ayase and Tsugumi are far more appealing.

I liked the action scenes in episode 4 and 5 a lot more than the ones in the first two episodes. Shu's abilities still came across as a bit "OMG Hax", but it wasn't so severe as to detract from the action like it was in the first two episodes. And I loved the battle music in episode 4.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
- Tsugumi bending and making all sorts of cutesy poses (basically her entire character so far)
They should fix this by giving her her own episode.
(And I finally figured out why she reminds me so much of Hazuki from Moon Phase aside from the hair cut/colour and random cat ears.)
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Old 2011-11-13, 22:17   Link #2131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
I think everyone who is bashing this on the grounds of fanservice should watch a few episodes of Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere. Compared to Horizon, this is nothing. *Maybe this is why I'm not bothered by it. Horizon has desensitized me. *

Horizon..
  • large boobs *check*
  • skin tight uniforms *check*
  • jiggle factor *check*
  • MC fondling girl's boobs *check*

And...Horizon is a nice title. I was crying while watching episode 6. The scene was that good.

Is the fanservice bashing because this is a Noitamina title? *just wondering*
They're just bashing fanservice because there are only so many times you can talk about how "fail" the plot is. There's no complaint for Horizon "fanservice" because
  • far less people watch it (if there are full novel translations like Haganai and F/Z, the situation will be so drastically different because City-verse is as complex as Nasuverse).
  • the plot is virtually pretty solid; there are very minimal things you can nitpick about and nobody will find the "fanservice" distracting since the plot is a lot harder to understand (due to translation/language barrier).
... which goes back to the fact that GC's plot is not presenting itself that well causing all sorts of complaints as a result. Also, GC's fanservice sucks, Majikoi ftw .

EDIT: if anyone's interested, you can dig up a huge full page of Kawakami's design of the "tight bodysuit", aka it's not JUST made to enhance the body shape so argument of it just being there for fanservice purpose kinda fails for that discussion ┐( ̄ー ̄)┌.
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Old 2011-11-13, 22:23   Link #2132
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I really gotta get around to watching this sooner... missing out on some good discussion.

Anyway, touch episode here. The NTR-esque moment there twisted my stomach a little, even though I knew nothing was going on, it still hurt. And of course, Ayase is super awesome on all counts.

Was I the only one who LOL'd at this?
Spoiler for Screenshot:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
Ayase confirmed for best character. Which isn't saying much, I know, but still, she was really likable and she has a strong personality.
You are too biased to declare Ayase as the best character.

Quote:
Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
It was probably for security measures. He came directly from the prison, so they "sanitized" him and got rid of his clothes. I could go on about the possible logic of the timing and such, but the conversation would probably end up in circles.
No... there was no reason other than for Ayase to see his junk.

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Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Yeah, I think it's plain he's going to die in a Heroic Sacrifice somewhere near the end, and say something along the lines of "It's all up to you now, Ouma Shu." as his dying words.
Gai was dead the second he took on the "sempai" role for Shu. It's only a matter of time now...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Skin tight bodysuits is exactly why I brought up Mai-HiME. *cough* Natsuki (and the real reason why I don't like Otome-- I hated their fashion sense)

Also, we can't go a round w/o Okada bashing. XD Oh well, it's a good lesson on how to not present fanservice.
The body suits are what bother me the most, I think. I mean, they are the least realistic since they'd have to be specially cut. And the moans make me face palm.
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Old 2011-11-13, 22:32   Link #2133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post

The body suits are what bother me the most, I think. I mean, they are the least realistic since they'd have to be specially cut. And the moans make me face palm.
And what's wrong/unrealistic with getting a specially cut suit for your top mecha pilot? Presumably the suit provides some sort of added functionality for combat situations.

In real life, skin-tight body suits are legit parts of certain professions (scuba diver, Olympic-level speed skaters, etc...).
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Old 2011-11-13, 22:37   Link #2134
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About the fanservice all I can say is that redjuice designs would be wasted if all the females dressed like nuns. Besides, the fanservice so far has been mostly situational because the focus is always on the action scenes, character interaction and story.

Im curious to see how they will handle the traditional swimsuit episode, though. Most likely won't be all 20 minutes of non-stop fanservice but it wouldn't bother me if that was the case .
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Old 2011-11-13, 22:41   Link #2135
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
And the moans make me face palm.
Actually, believe it or not, the moaning may or may not be accurate depending on the person. Sometimes when people cry out in pain, their wailing might resemble a moan... But it's more than likely notaminA is being obnoxiously fanservice-y with it on purpose, so I'm pretty embarrassed by them myself. :|
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Old 2011-11-13, 22:56   Link #2136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orion View Post
I think everyone who is bashing this on the grounds of fanservice should watch a few episodes of Horizon in the Middle of Nowhere. Compared to Horizon, this is nothing. *Maybe this is why I'm not bothered by it. Horizon has desensitized me. *

Horizon..
  • large boobs *check*
  • skin tight uniforms *check*
  • jiggle factor *check*
  • MC fondling girl's boobs *check*

And...Horizon is a nice title. I was crying while watching episode 6. The scene was that good.

Is the fanservice bashing because this is a Noitamina title? *just wondering*
Well, there's always worse. I mean, this is probaly better than Dragonaut but it doesn't improve the situation. In the case of Horizon, I was turned off by the art but I will catch up on that eventually. The fanservice there wasn't really too distracting besides those massive boobs.

And yes, it's partially due to the slot, where viewers may expect more high brow series.

Unless you're me, I just bash stuff because I can.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stuopidget View Post
Also, GC's fanservice sucks, Majikoi ftw .
Haha, I sorta feel the same way, though Majikoi's poor animation really hurts it.
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Old 2011-11-13, 23:02   Link #2137
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Yea that was stupid as hell. She was so shocked at seeing his penis that she decided to roll half way across the room to get a closer look and subsequently slap him instead of just closing the door. How did she even reach his face?
Because the pleasure of slapping someone obviously outweighs everything else obviously
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Old 2011-11-13, 23:02   Link #2138
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Seriously, am I the only one who finds the "fanservice" rather tamed in this show, compared to what you normally get in anime these days?

Not to a point where I have to make a lap about it.

It's just there to me, most of the time, I don't even notice or care. As long as it's not in your face blatant fanservice.
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Old 2011-11-13, 23:05   Link #2139
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^Yeah, on one side, we have people who kill women and children for kicks, and on the other people who try to free them. Hard to tell who's the better side.
Do that in real life and it would be suicide. You do not join a war on that premise alone since humans are fully capable of deception
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Old 2011-11-13, 23:08   Link #2140
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Originally Posted by DragoZERO View Post
Anyway, touch episode here. The NTR-esque moment there twisted my stomach a little, even though I knew nothing was going on, it still hurt. And of course, Ayase is super awesome on all counts.
What made the apparent NTR so juicy is that we're fresh from Shu deciding that he didn't care about anything except Inori. He looked so pathetic, and desperate when he asked her "Hey, Inori, I can trust you, right?" in the last episode, before transforming into Captain Caveman. It sucked huge for him, because foolish or not, that's all he had left to hold onto. It finally made me feel like there's more to Inori, though, and more importantly, it made me care enough to want to find out what it is.

Also, I'm getting Holland-from-Eureka-Seven vibes from Gai. He's got his reasons for not ever explaining anything to Shu, but I'm betting his unwillingness to communicate is just going to make things worse in the long run.
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