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Old 2011-11-14, 17:20   Link #2181
hyl
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But some people actually drop series if they really dislike them and don't watch it till the end.
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:32   Link #2182
karice67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Where was it confirmed Gai met Shu in the past?
The two kids (one just a voice - Shu, the other a silhouette - Gai) in Shu's dream in episode 5 are credited as "young Gai" and "young Shu".

Also, what the silhouette kid says in the dream is an echo of Gai's words at the end of episode 4 - "ore wo shinjirou (yo)" ("Believe in me").

There's also the question of how Gai knew Shu's name in the first episode, and his "this time, show me that you can protect it" also raises a question mark for me...
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:51   Link #2183
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Ah, ic. That's indeed interesting. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyl View Post
But some people actually drop series if they really dislike them and don't watch it till the end.
Uh. Well yes, some do. And?

(I'm not really understanding what you're trying to tell me)
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:55   Link #2184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
I dislike it, therefore I write about why I dislike it; just as you write about why you like it. It's not like I'm hating on it, though I don't deny hating how some things are handled in it, that's still a valid way of expressing an opinion.

Many of us don't feel forced to like it by those expressing positive opinions so I don't understand why you both feel you need to take this meta-defensive stance to protect yourselvs from ours. It's like I'm not allowed to dislike the current progress just because you liked every bit of it. Get a damn grip people! Your opinion is not some shared resource, it's yours, and I can't really do anything about it even if I try.

Also, it's not like those of us that are still here have abandoned all hope of the show becoming anything good, or just hate everything about it. I think it's pretty unanymous that the show has top notch animation quality and really nice aesthetics (overall). And at least and some potential to drag it's plot back up.

And honestly who cares about what demographic it's aimed at? I never watched anything in my life because it had some sticker with my age on it. Not anime or anything else. Politically correct content be damned.
Yea seriously. It's not like we hope to see this show crash and burn or anything. It is just that certain aspects are not that great in my view. I don't really get how not liking something causes some kind of radiation that somehow will damage and monopolize positive opinions. It's not like this is like Gundam Age where it was panned before it even started.

As for as I can see, those who have been vocal critics have not taken to massively generalizing people with contrary opinions, assuming since they must like or not like Guilty Crown must mean a bunch of completely irrelevant assumptions about them. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I'd like the same kind of due respect back. :S

I really don't understand critcism-phobia. If I reacted violently to every time someone hates something I like, I'd have died of a dozen heart attacks already.

Tl;DR No, I won't shut up.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2011-11-14 at 18:09.
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Old 2011-11-14, 17:56   Link #2185
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Uh. Well yes, some do. And?

(I'm not really understanding what you're trying to tell me)
It's those subtle hints that are not so subtle in other threads.

I agree with DragoZero. The constant criticism and criticism of the criticizers are really dragging this thread down the toilet. Can we move on to something else? It like the criticism is taking over the thread.
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Old 2011-11-14, 18:16   Link #2186
hyl
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Most of your dislike does come from the fact that the serie is still keeping lot's of things a mysterie.
Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
The biggest problem here is this is a mecha show. Though it's pacing is that of a sci-fi drama. Mecha shows tend to have the easiest formula when it comes to asserting the importance of the protagonist: you just have a overarching doom-plot for which the protagonist is either the key or the only-key to ending it, then you just throw danger after danger under cricumstances where he's about to die but somehow gets out.
This serie is not a complete mecha show. You probably should known that from seeing the settings, the pv's, the plot and the first episode. As far from the plot that you could read on the main site and on every other website that copied before the first episode that the only thing you could tell that this serie was meant as a sci fi serie with some apocalyptic settings like viruses in mind.Also the drama was also implied because it also said a tale of 2 boys and songtress/diva in the first pv.
The mecha's are mostly in the plot to enforce the sci fi settings and are not the centre of the series. If you really wanted a mecha serie, then your obvious choice was gundam age for this season.

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Originally Posted by felix View Post
GC doesn't do that. Shu is never in danger or the key to anything, he's essentially just a bio-weapon with a love interest. The funeral parlor are the key to the problem, they are the ones with their necks on the chopping block when shit hits the fan. So what does that leave us with? The daily life of Shu? Is it even surprising many aren't pleased with how it's going...
Also i do find it somewhat realistic what Shuu does after epsiode 3, trying to go back to his previous life. He does not have a personility of a hero or rebel for him to be involved in this war, but later episodes shows that he can't escape the fact that he is involved because he has the void powers.


Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
To be honest if not for the discussion I wouldn't even be following this one. This is one of those shows I would just wait to finish and check general opinion and summaries to see if it amounted to anything or fell on it's ass by the end. It's pretty obvious from the episode pacing the writers weren't thinking too much on how this would work in a 20min episode format since the tention between episodes, every good show needs, just isn't there! You know those deep questions that they tease you with every episode or those ticking time bombs that you don't know when are going to go off or be stopped if they're going to be stopped. So far GC had one, the pen, and they just made it into comic relief and had Shu completely forget about it, har har, well played GC.
The series has more deep points than you might have missed in your watching, like the in your case missing out that Gai and Shu has met before.
As for the pacing and tension, i don't understand from your explanation why you think the pacing is horrible. It's as if you think that every serie needs a big plot twist or cliffhanger to be interesting. Some of the slower episodes so far introduces us what a void can do (episode 3) and some character development like in episode 5. There is nothing wrong with those seeing that the series has 22 episodes.


edit: the serie does has it faults, but the points that you have mentioned does seem weak to me.

Last edited by hyl; 2011-11-14 at 18:31.
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Old 2011-11-14, 18:30   Link #2187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaoru Chujo View Post
Hmm. Since 5cm/sec is my favorite anime movie ever (maybe tied with Whisper of the Heart), I can see we are looking for different things from an anime. I'm sorry you can't get the pleasure from Guilty Crown that I am getting -- or from 5cm/sec, for that matter -- but I understand where you're coming from. Comparing this to 5cm/sec makes me think there may be more to this show than I realized, lol.
I accept your condolences and there most likely is more to GC than you realize. Honestly though, I love Whisper of the Heart. Great characters, animation, story, and Olivia-Newton John singing. How can you go wrong? Although for a love story, the male lead sure doesn't show up all that much.

Makoto Shinkai movies are simply a case of "why should I care?" The characters weren't interesting, his stories are told when it should be showed, and while I felt sad when reading the summaries, the actual movies made me go, "Is that it?", if I don't fall asleep first. It honestly bothers me how much hype his movies have when the actual creation process seems to have more drama than the dramatic movie itself (Makoto Shinkai really works hard).

One thing in particular that bothers me about his movies, and GC, is that there are practically no "happy" moments (how many scenes has Shu actually smiled in?). The characters rarely cheer up, and whenever they do, it's usually downplayed. I'm sorry, but if there are no happy moments to contrast the sad moments, then why should I care when a sad moment occurs? Why should I care if tragedy occurs when you're always sad and lonely to begin with? I don't know if it's a popular thought, but I stick with it, nevertheless.

(hopefully, this is my last criticism for a while, and I can get back to making fun of Inori's outfit ^_^)
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Old 2011-11-14, 18:39   Link #2188
hyl
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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
One thing in particular that bothers me about his movies, and GC, is that there are practically no "happy" moments (how many scenes has Shu actually smiled in?). The characters rarely cheer up, and whenever they do, it's usually downplayed. I'm sorry, but if there are no happy moments to contrast the sad moments, then why should I care when a sad moment occurs? Why should I care if tragedy occurs when you're always sad and lonely to begin with? I don't know if it's a popular thought, but I stick with it, nevertheless.
Maybe the happy scenes are downplayed, because the japan that he is living in is somewhat depressing. Also i think he has said it in episode one that he is social awkward.
He does seem happier when he was with Inori and when he accepted in the group in episode 5 than when he was in his old school life with his quasi friends.
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Old 2011-11-14, 18:47   Link #2189
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Originally Posted by hyl View Post
Maybe the happy scenes are downplayed, because the japan that he is living in is somewhat depressing. Also i think he has said it in episode one that he is social awkward.
He does seem happier when he was with Inori and when he accepted in the group in episode 5 than when he was in his old school life with his quasi friends.
I can only hope he gets happier from here on, although honestly, I don't remember him being that happy around Inori either (which is why their "fake" romance never worked). Besides, he has friends at school (or people who talk to him at least). How can he not smile once when with them? Even Harry Potter in the Deathly Hallows Part 1 movie had some happy moments (and god was that movie dark). But like I said, I think it's mostly a (big) peeve of mine.
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Old 2011-11-14, 18:52   Link #2190
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I dunno; I think I got more from 20 minutes out of 5cm than many a production (not just Guilty Crown). True 5cm had to run at a faster pace and the characters are harder to care for, I just felt it managed to tell a story in a very nice manner.

I suppose the infodump was a bit much, but Guilty Crown could use some.
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Old 2011-11-14, 19:05   Link #2191
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I am bit confused why Guilty Crown is being compared to Whisper of the Heart & Makokot Shinkai. I definitely do not see the similarities personally.

edit: Decided to edit my post because even under a cut I don't want to keep criticizing. Sorry!
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Old 2011-11-14, 19:13   Link #2192
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I am bit confused why Guilty Crown is being compared to Whisper of the Heart & Makokot Shinkai. I definitely do not see the similarities personally.
I brought up the Makoto Shinkai thing because GC is a beautifully animated product with good ideas, but it still manages to bore me due to how little "happy moments" there are. Whisper of the Heart...I just wanted to make it clear that I liked it as an entertaining romance anime.
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Old 2011-11-14, 20:36   Link #2193
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post
There's also the question of how Gai knew Shu's name in the first episode, and his "this time, show me that you can protect it" also raises a question mark for me...
Well, I always thought that when Gai mentioned that the "this time, show me that you can protect it" refered to the fact that Shu did not protect Inori the first time they met.

It's true that it was unusual that Gai knew Shu's name. From your line of thinking, it probably meant that Shu failed to "protect" the childhood girl (a.k.a. Inori's precursor).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
I don't really get how not liking something causes some kind of radiation that somehow will damage and monopolize positive opinions.
I really don't like getting into this type of discussion, but for this once, I will try to give an example.

Say for instance, you are a Dallas Mavericks' fan. They win the NBA Championship, and you are in quite a positive buzz. You only have great feelings and great things to say. Along comes a negative person that says that the main reason why the Mavericks won is because the referees "helped" them win. Whatever enjoyment you had is now tainted with this negative remark. It does not matter if it is correct or not. It is just a fact that you threw a wrench in someone else's fun, and you want them to feel as down as you are feeling. Negative feeling is contagious, and it ruins the fun for others around.

If you are going to a party with a group of friends, but there is one friend who is currently very negative and down, would you want to bring him along? Usually not because he would bring down the mood of the group. You would most likely leave him at home.

This is all I want to discuss about this for the thread. If you want to continue this discussion, you are more than welcome to PM me.
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Old 2011-11-14, 21:44   Link #2194
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Originally Posted by thundrakkon View Post
I really don't like getting into this type of discussion, but for this once, I will try to give an example.

Say for instance, you are a Dallas Mavericks' fan. They win the NBA Championship, and you are in quite a positive buzz. You only have great feelings and great things to say. Along comes a negative person that says that the main reason why the Mavericks won is because the referees "helped" them win. Whatever enjoyment you had is now tainted with this negative remark. It does not matter if it is correct or not. It is just a fact that you threw a wrench in someone else's fun, and you want them to feel as down as you are feeling. Negative feeling is contagious, and it ruins the fun for others around.
Unfortunately, I can't comprehend this either, and actually whether he is right or wrong does matter. If someone really does say this I would just laugh at him at being butthurt and continue to celebrate. Actually, that's exactly what I did in similar situations. I would expect any sensible person to do the same.

But that's just me. I am simply not that insecure to have my enjoyment ruined because some idiot said something different. If I were a fan and saw criticisms, I'd see if they made sense. If it's some fool doing some incoherent rambling, I'd simply laugh at them for being silly.

Now if you had said, someone barged in saying "Dallas fans are fucktards!" That's different. That's just aiming to insult people and would indeed ruin the mood. Can't speak for anyone else, but I don't have a single problem with anyone liking the show.

Quote:
If you are going to a party with a group of friends, but there is one friend who is currently very negative and down, would you want to bring him along? Usually not because he would bring down the mood of the group. You would most likely leave him at home.
This analogy doesn't work because if you're going to attend a private gathering, you shouldn't go to spoil the mood. If someone made a Guilty Crown fanclub, and someone went in to complain about everything, that would be a better equivalent.

This is an open forum, and I don't think it's right to ask people to stop talking because you disagree with them. Acting as such comes across as taking ownership of a thread. I certainly have no intention of doing that to people, and I expect the same from others. If worse comes to worse there's an ignore list.

That being said, I would say it's a bit inappropriate to be overbearing over a show. Repeatedly invoking the same criticisms (OMG Shu sucks) is indeed counterproductive and pointless, and that should be curtailed. But it's clear that this line appears to be different for you and me. However, I also feel that nothing is forcing one to read posts they don't want to either. It's far easier to mute someone on the internet as opposed to real life.

That is what I think, and that's how I roll; I simply don't feel the need to hold back since I never try to personally attack anyone. I'm not trying to prove anyone right and wrong, and nor do I wish to make this a debate . But yea PMs or w/e will be fine if anyone seriously wants to talk about this.
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Old 2011-11-14, 22:12   Link #2195
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Originally Posted by karice67 View Post

Also, what the silhouette kid says in the dream is an echo of Gai's words at the end of episode 4 - "ore wo shinjirou (yo)" ("Believe in me").
I bet it was Gai who said that in the flashback/dream too, and that something bad happened to Shuu at that time too, and it's all Gai fault.

I just hate that guy.
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:26   Link #2196
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FWIW, the full OP PV has been let out. Song weighs in around 5:32.
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:53   Link #2197
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FWIW, the full OP PV has been let out. Song weighs in around 5:32.
Indeed. Full version of My Dearest is excellent, have been hearing it almost non-stop. Those fake full version edits on youtube can't compare.
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Old 2011-11-14, 23:58   Link #2198
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Hmm, I think the full version sounds better than the actual OP. It must have been the way it was cut.
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Old 2011-11-15, 00:07   Link #2199
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Originally Posted by dark998 View Post
Indeed. Full version of My Dearest is excellent, have been hearing it almost non-stop. Those fake full version edits on youtube can't compare.
Link to the full version pls:

And when I say link I do not mean a green half-elf from Hyrule.
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Old 2011-11-15, 00:11   Link #2200
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I haven't found enough Tsugumi wallpapers around the Internet, especially her with someone else. I wonder when there will be a larger explosion of her artwork? I am guessing around the time they finally pull out her void object, which I'm very much looking forward to. Nekomimi headphones?

As for the episode, I am wondering what purpose does Gai/The Undertakers want the Leukocyte for? If it is to destroy it, then that is fine. However, if he wants it to use it on something, then the question is what?
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