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Old 2011-11-29, 17:07   Link #2801
Haak
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
See tvtropes or Wikipedia for the basic gist.
Oh right. In that case I don't think it's really campy at all. I think it relies heavily on Rule Of Cool, which is fine for small stuff but generally not for entire plotlines. Although it can be done for plotlines it has to actually be cool for it to work and not have to rely on uncool things to get there (e.g. Like introducing a dumbass stereotypical American just so we can watch Gai ladykill and Shuu deflect missiles)
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Old 2011-11-29, 17:15   Link #2802
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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
Campy basically means that it's supposed to be silly and stupid. Almost like a parody, only a little more serious. Of course, what separates good parodies from bad parodies is the ability to create a world where all this stuff can happen, and the same thing is true for campy stuff. Code Geass is really silly and has some really forced twists, but the universe it builds allows it to get away with that (most of the time).

The reason I didn't consider Guilty Crown all that campy in the first few episodes is because the jokes weren't funny and the atmosphere just seemed way too melancholy and boring. On top of that, it keeps on breaking its own established rules, making it hard to really enjoy it. Create one world and stick with that world! But I digress.

Is it campy? Yeah. Is it successfully campy? Getting there, but it really struggled initially, and I have to see the next episode to confirm if it'll keep the campy nature embraced by the past two episodes.
Campy better describes the game I'm playing right now in Bayonetta. She dresses and looks ridiculous, is constantly doing cheesy poses and having her clothes come off, is surrounded by colorful characters like a mobster that sounds like Joe Pesci and a guy that looks like he walked out of a Def Jam game, but all throughout it's tightly crafted and incredibly stylish on all fronts and there's no sudden tonal shifts as of yet.

Guilty Crown however is incredibly hit and miss. Some aspects are funny like American Dan, Tsugumi's dancing, Daryl's character and Gai's apparent perfection and invincibility while others are not so much like when the show is trying to do drama between Gai, Inori and Shu and then just forgets about it seemingly the moment the scene ends or when the GHQ is massacring civilians for seemingly no other reason than that they are there simply to make the Funeral Parlor people look heroic by choosing not to massacre innocent civilians just cause they are there. It's scenes like this that serve to offset the shows camp value and drive it more into the territory of what the heck tone are they even trying to set.

Recent episodes have been better in that they lack any completely awful timing for drama scenes amidst the absurdity of the characters and the ones there are have at least passable execution for a change, but time will tell whether that's just a fluke or if they really have figured out what can pass as a balance for this show.
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Old 2011-11-29, 17:22   Link #2803
felix
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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
I don't just fault the advertisement and such with GC's campiness. I really couldn't see its campiness until Episode 6-7, because the first five episodes looked like it was suffering identity crisis and failed miserably at being campy in the process. Also, I don't care how campy the series is, but while I can excuse the rest of the outfits, Inori's is just weird. Most of the campy stuff I saw at least tried to justify the costumes or give some buildup. Even Code Geass. How are we supposed to take that seriously? Am I in the 1990 Captain America movie or something?

But honestly, I get that the show is trying to be campy at this point. But just because you're going the campy route doesn't mean you're doing it right. And those first five episodes...they just reminded me of Battlefield Earth rather than a campy action show.
Your overuse of that word makes it really hard to get what you're trying to say; it's like you're repeating the same sentence over and over.

As for the buildup, I agree, but at the same time disagree with you. The series does indeed have buildup it's just that said buildup can only be classified as either awful (by those who hate it) and different (by those who like it). Neither of which makes it good buildup, from a series planning perspective. Good buildup is the type that reels you in with tried and tested methods and spits you out as a fujoshi (or worse) when it's done. But hey, it's buildup nonetheless. I mean it's not like they're not trying, right? Trying to argue that buildup isn't buildup just because it's bad, or whatever, isn't much of an argument.

@totoum

I think the more relevant line is this:
Quote:
With Ghost in the Shell, the main audience is twenties to thirties, but with Guilty Crown we're going for a younger audience.
So at most one would assume from that 18. But probably in the range of 12 to 18 if not younger. I'm assuming because of it's "next generation of anime" baseline thinking, it could very well be a highly sophisticated show aimed at 12 year olds for all we know. It could probably be aimed at even a younger audience then that. Aside from the "herbivore" lead the plot itself isn't something sophisticated enough for young people to get indigestion from. On my scales, I'd say it's as sophisticated as something like SWAT Kats.
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Old 2011-11-29, 17:30   Link #2804
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
Your overuse of that word makes it really hard to get what you're trying to say; it's like you're repeating the same sentence over and over.

As for the buildup, I agree, but at the same time disagree with you. The series does indeed have buildup it's just that said buildup can only be classified as either awful (by those who hate it) and different (by those who like it). Neither of which makes it good buildup, from a series planning perspective. Good buildup is the type that reels you in with tried and tested methods and spits you out as a fujoshi (or worse) when it's done. But hey, it's buildup nonetheless. I mean it's not like they're not trying, right? Trying to argue that buildup isn't buildup just because it's bad, or whatever, isn't much of an argument..
Sorry for overusing the word.

And when I was referring to buildup, I was referring to Inori's costume (I honestly don't have much problem with the series' buildup besides the fact that I find it slow). Unlike most shows, there was absolutely no buildup to her wearing that costume, as when we first saw her, she was running away while wearing it. And there has been no justification for it even after seven episodes. I see it as similar to that 1990 Captain America movie, where they just put him in the costume instantly without any justification for why he was dressed like a bullseye (they did justify it later, but it was pretty weak). No one's going to take that kind of costume seriously if you don't give a reason for why she wears it, even in this show. Does it have stealth capabilities (it might, but I forgot)? Is it to distract the enemy? It looks more like it'll give you a cold rather than serve as battle armor.

Edit: Oh, and I know Yoko from Gurren Lagann was pretty skimpy on the clothing, but so was everyone else, so I let that fly.
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Old 2011-11-29, 17:59   Link #2805
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Honestly I hope that after this beach episode from this week they begin to give us more story and answers.I mean I like the show , but now we approach the middle of this season they need to do better from now on.Moreover I keep wondering why they started to develop some kind of relationship/friendship between Shu and Ayase and then just thrown aside.
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Old 2011-11-29, 18:00   Link #2806
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
It could probably be aimed at even a younger audience then that. Aside from the "herbivore" lead the plot itself isn't something sophisticated enough for young people to get indigestion from. On my scales, I'd say it's as sophisticated as something like SWAT Kats.
I like to think of guilty crown as Noitamina's version of phi brain

But here's the thing with younger target audience,do teens have the money to buy the dvds?Can they stay up late enough to watch it?
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Old 2011-11-29, 18:06   Link #2807
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I would like to hear what the kids have to say about this

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Old 2011-11-29, 18:09   Link #2808
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Originally Posted by totoum
But here's the thing with younger target audience,do teens have the money to buy the dvds?Can they stay up late enough to watch it?
I suspect that they're trying to kill two birds with one stone.

On one hand, they hope that Guilty Crown will resonate with younger audiences, so they've taken that goal into account when designing the product. Nevertheless, they know that otaku between the ages of 20 and 30 make up the primary market, at least initially. I suppose that in a best case scenario, popularity may diffuse to younger viewers, similar to how K-ON! caught on with teenage boys and girls.

How to reconcile the two aims? There's a perception that the modern otaku has an adolescent mindset, so in some sense, targeting teens = targeting otaku, provided that you include the right hooks. For example, light novels are written for younger readers, yet adult customers gobble them up (along with related merchandise and anime/manga adaptations). The same can be said for otaku love stories (i.e. bishoujo games), which have about the same depth as a typical shounen romance.

Such a strategy relies on the premise that adult otaku are perfectly happy with lightweight, teen-oriented content.
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Old 2011-11-30, 00:19   Link #2809
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Moreover I keep wondering why they started to develop some kind of relationship/friendship between Shu and Ayase and then just thrown aside.
Because you don't waste time developing the relationship of the main character with a side character, bur rather with another main character. With episode 6 and 7 the development between Shu-Gai is pretty much set and now they should move to Shu-Inori and clear up the misunderstanding that still lingers in the mind of the former.
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Old 2011-11-30, 07:36   Link #2810
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Campy, huh. That really fits, and kind of explains why I feel the latest episode was the best to date. This stuff did not come across nearly as well in the beginning as it does now. The first few episodes really felt more like "serious business" and I feel that it only started showing its silly side later on once Shu got captured by the GHQ and we met that dude who interrogated him.
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Old 2011-11-30, 07:47   Link #2811
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Dibs on the Class Rep! XD Cool find! Which mag is this?
Sorry for the late response. Megami vol 140 if you're still interested.
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Old 2011-11-30, 09:31   Link #2812
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Originally Posted by totoum View Post
I like to think of guilty crown as Noitamina's version of phi brain

But here's the thing with younger target audience,do teens have the money to buy the dvds?Can they stay up late enough to watch it?
In the US, teen market is very desirable. 14-17 yo age group has a lot of disposable income followed by the 11-13 yo. It's all about getting them to want to buy your product as their priorities are mostly clothes, cosmetics and electronics.

As for staying up late, that's what DVRs and VCRs are for.
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Old 2011-11-30, 18:38   Link #2813
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Campy, huh. That really fits, and kind of explains why I feel the latest episode was the best to date. This stuff did not come across nearly as well in the beginning as it does now. The first few episodes really felt more like "serious business" and I feel that it only started showing its silly side later on once Shu got captured by the GHQ and we met that dude who interrogated him.
You know, in all honestly, we should've expected nothing less from the writers of code geass.

But well, at least they make it a damn fun ride. I'm just thankful it hasn't crossed the line yet where it goes beyond being entertaining and into outright ridiculousness coughcoughCodeGeassR2coughcough. Anyone remember a certain rocket charles?
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Old 2011-12-01, 01:08   Link #2814
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I'd say that line has been essentially crossed already, actually, and within a mere seven episodes Guilty Crown has not given a lot of its audience a good reason to completely forgive such things. Quite the opposite, in fact, comparing some of the initial reactions to current thoughts on the subject.

There's nothing wrong with making a campy show, but the best camp makes use of characters who are interesting or at least likable enough to make the audience react in a positive manner. In that area, this series isn't doing a very good job at all, or at least not frequently enough to make it truly effective.

And, once again, the use of pseudo-realistic backgrounds and visuals (when, for instance, compared to either season of Code Geass) tends to detract rather than add to the experience. You take one look at Guilty Crown and, on the surface, there's a bit of an implied expectation: the situation should be more serious than what it actually is. The opposite happens with a more "cartoony" or stylistically exaggerated production.

You could easily pull off a real Ghost in the Shell spin-off with most of Guilty Crown's design work in a way that, say, you could never honestly pretend to do with CLAMP or Takahiro Kimura designs. Granted, it's not impossible to contradict or counter such implied expectations and effects, but going against this trend requires a lot of effort from both the audience and the creators.
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Old 2011-12-01, 07:05   Link #2815
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I'm honestly not sure how marketing to the teen demographic works in Japan. Most schools over there don't allow part-time jobs. So I would imagine their income is a lot less than the average HS student in the US et al.

When they say teen demo, that is the main audience, but of course the media is probably bought by more of 20+ people. Kinda like how Pretty Cure franchise's target demo is young girls + men 21-34 lol...
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Old 2011-12-01, 12:56   Link #2816
Kaoru Chujo
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As far as I can tell, I'm the person in this thread who is enjoying the show most, so far. And I reject the word "campy" entirely. That comes from people who find themselves laughing at the show, which I don't. Skimpy outfit? The show is not taking itself too seriously, but is not making fun of itself, either. It just doesn't bother making strict point-by-point sense of every development. It jumps from interesting scene/sequence to interesting scene/sequence. That's a postmodern way of story-telling, not trying to fool us into thinking this is real life, but admitting that it is a TV show, and trusting that we can suspend our disbelief enough to enjoy what we are given rather than demanding what we expect. At least that's how I see it so far. But it's good that people can enjoy the show in more than one way.
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Old 2011-12-01, 13:31   Link #2817
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Originally Posted by JediNight View Post
I'm honestly not sure how marketing to the teen demographic works in Japan. Most schools over there don't allow part-time jobs. So I would imagine their income is a lot less than the average HS student in the US et al.

When they say teen demo, that is the main audience, but of course the media is probably bought by more of 20+ people. Kinda like how Pretty Cure franchise's target demo is young girls + men 21-34 lol...
You make it sound like kids can't get money from their parents to buy all the merchandise.
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Old 2011-12-01, 13:55   Link #2818
TJR
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You make it sound like kids can't get money from their parents to buy all the merchandise.
Also, Pretty Cure makes money on broadcast (less reliance on the sale of media) whereas Guiilty Crown doesn't.

With the latter, I'm not sure if Aniplex/FujiTV expect to make money from the teen demographic. However, if the show succeeds with that audience (as the "next generation of anime"), they've potentially helped secure tomorrow's customers. That's one of the industry's concerns, isn't it?
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:06   Link #2819
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The only thing that i don't like is that Shuu seems to pull of deus ex machina moments every time he gets a void during critical times. But otherwise i really enjoy the show.
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:34   Link #2820
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