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Old 2011-10-15, 14:48   Link #161
felix
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I actually agree with Forsaken_Infinity's POV. The only thing I don't agree is the claim that other shows don't pull this "unfair" card. They do, just not so hard or obvious. We'll have to see if this motif keeps up though; since otherwise this would hardly be praise worthy.

One other big plus for me is the mixed up character formula it has. It's not unusual for there to be a whole bunch of characters in the show but usually at least half of them are just dumb or too easy to fool; strictly speaking detective themed shows here. This usually leads to the typical Sherlok and Watson character development. So you got only two characters barely helping each other develop, once in a while (and even then it's the same-old over and over). I hope the cast doesn't get cut down as the show goes on, since with time the character development should just get better and better. On the other hand we already seem to have some Sherlok and Watson pairings so I don't expect any development to be too dynamic; which is probably not a bad thing given the show's detective theme.
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Old 2011-10-15, 15:12   Link #162
Kismet-chan
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You sound mad
Um... no? I was just making a clarification.
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Old 2011-10-15, 15:13   Link #163
felix
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
Um... no? I was just making a clarification.
Mad = being annoyed, angry etc.
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Old 2011-10-15, 15:17   Link #164
Kismet-chan
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Mad = being annoyed, angry etc.
Yes, we know this. And...?
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Old 2011-10-15, 15:18   Link #165
felix
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Yes, we know this. And...?
You labeled yourself as annoyed.
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Old 2011-10-15, 15:34   Link #166
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Kinda bummed that episode 0, the 45 minute prequel detailing how Inga and Shinjuro met won't air until November 19th, and furthermore that it will be a theatrical release, which means we westerners won't likely see it until the DVD/BDs are out.

My concern is that if this backstory is going to be told in episode 0, then we may not get much explaining it in the course of the TV show itself.
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Old 2011-10-15, 15:36   Link #167
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
The resolution was the worst of all. They slandered an innocent, murdered woman to cover up a crazy murderess and an embezzling war profiteer. How is that beautiful?

And it seems to be an ongoing, habitual thing for the heroine's father. And she approves of it. And we're supposed to sympathize with her?
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
What I mind is that the POV character, the one we're supposed to sympathise with, finds it beautiful. Because she's a spoiled little daddy's girl, and the life of luxury she takes for granted was bought with such falsehoods. She doesn't even try to rationalise it by claiming it's for stability and the greater good.
I agree with all of this. I sort of overlooked how they wrapped up the murder and forgot to comment on it. It all just seemed so awkward. Perhaps Shinjurou's actions are less about a completely equal and fair justice and more about... something else? (Don't know what it would be, exactly.) And as for Rie, I already said how I find her distasteful. Characters like her are really dreadful to watch. Even if she did get some development down the line and changed, I'd probably still dislike her. I know that's a bit much to assume from a single episode of her, but Rie seems like one of those "I'm here and I'm running my mouth purely for the sake of it and to fill up time in the episode" kinds of characters, in addition to her sort of stupid POV.
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Old 2011-10-15, 16:08   Link #168
felix
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Originally Posted by Kismet-chan View Post
but Rie seems like one of those "I'm here and I'm running my mouth purely for the sake of it and to fill up time in the episode" kinds of characters, in addition to her sort of stupid POV.
I'd say she's there like other characters to add complexity. You can't expect the reader/watcher of these things to figure out all the possibilities on their own before you drop the ball. So... it's much simpler to have all sorts of characters put on the detective cloak. Typically they don't speak the truth, BUT they do sometimes nail important facts and hints, for you as the viewer to attempt to figure it out (intentionally or subconsciously). Honestly though I'm sure at least half of us figured it was the wife the moment she offered that glass of wine.

There's an added charm to it when done right since you progressively hear better theories usually, so even if you don't figure it out you can sort of tell just how good you were by observing how much you figured out on your own (or felt you knew). Sadly this kind of backfires when you really figure it out all on your own; that's usually why you have the confession at the end, so you at least have something to look forward to either way.

It's better to have characters like her then to have very flat and uni-dimentional puzzles.
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Old 2011-10-15, 17:51   Link #169
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My First Impressions on Un-Go

Hello to everyone. I keep on with my reviews for the recently started show in the fall season.

I'm very honest to say that until now I didn't know anything about Un-Go, I just picked-up this title based on reviews that I happened to read at Randomc Blog.

The only things I researched about Un-Go is that the anime is adapted from a series of novels written by Ango Sakaguchi going by the title Meiji Kaika Ango Torimono-chō . That, and several familiar staff who did work on Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood returned returned as production staff in Un-Go.

Now, this year 2011 has turned productive for shows in the murder mystery, detective genre whether they employ anti-mystery or anti-fantasy stances.

Previously we got GOSICK, Kami-sama no Memochou, and Dantalian no Shokan, as far as the year has run. However, Un-Go needs no need to make use of a loli-detective as a protagonist and while plays fairly the detective genre, the focus is founded more upon the complex layers that define the characters' personalities going from the protagonists themselves to the victims to the criminals once disenmasqueraded.

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-10-15, 21:04   Link #170
Hooves
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
Kinda bummed that episode 0, the 45 minute prequel detailing how Inga and Shinjuro met won't air until November 19th, and furthermore that it will be a theatrical release, which means we westerners won't likely see it until the DVD/BDs are out.

My concern is that if this backstory is going to be told in episode 0, then we may not get much explaining it in the course of the TV show itself.
So, until then. This is basically going to be an episodic anime which will shows cases for our male lead to solve? Or they might take another direction, but it just feels that way for me from the first episode.
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Old 2011-10-15, 22:11   Link #171
creb
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Originally Posted by Hooves View Post
So, until then. This is basically going to be an episodic anime which will shows cases for our male lead to solve? Or they might take another direction, but it just feels that way for me from the first episode.
Well, I'm optimistic that the mystery was really just a prop to introduce the setting to us. We learn a lot about the setting actually, through the exposition surrounding this murdered man who helped Japan through the war and reconstruction. Then we also see that there is a history of Shinjuro solving high profile crimes that the government covers up.

My hope is that even if there is a mystery a week, they all tie in to a cohesive story now that we've laid out the setting (both physical and political for lack of a better term).

I'd guess we'll know which way BONES is tilting (purely episodic, or an over-arching story) by the third episode.
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Old 2011-10-15, 22:56   Link #172
Kunagisa
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The mystery of the week is just the hook.

Given Inga can mean anything from cause/effect, karma, and fate, whatever foreshadowed will probably come back in the end, like the fact that the main's already dead in the beginning. There's another version of him that looks older and more rugged, which leads me to believe dude might've died in the past and was given another chance to redeem himself through this karmic effect.

This feels more like a philosophical film to me, also the OP and ED are both extremely pleasing to my ears help too, esp. the ED (the style's awesome too)

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Old 2011-10-16, 06:56   Link #173
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Originally Posted by Forsaken_Infinity View Post
Yeah but that was pretty much the ONE THING that wasn't blatantly obvious and the one thing that makes UN-GO stand out from countless other shows that use this detective setting. For once, a show with a detective MC is portraying the ugly truth behind the job - most of the time, the detective is fighting a completely futile battle in that his deductions are only going to cause him pain for he knows the truth and yet has to live in a false world. I love it. It's a plus point to the show, not a minus.

The resolution makes the show great - by being unfair. There is more than meets the eye. The MC doesn't have any power whatsoever. He literally is the defeated detective. And on top of that, he has to deal with a borderline crazy being for a companion. I am psyched to see his motivations behind even bothering to do this shit. It can't be as simple as self-satisfaction. And I also love the fact that unlike most MCs, he doesn't give a damn if justice was served but isn't exactly condoning the wrongdoing either (He did hang up on Mr. Fabricator, after all).

I agree with you in as much that there is noting remotely beautiful about fabricating a messed up story to frame an innocent duty woman to cover up for a corrupt official and a murderess - but I am frankly amused that the girl thinks it's beautiful. The MC definitely doesn't agree - but he doesn't outright go against it either. Interesting stuff.

Basically, had they gone ahead and resolved it with a victory for the MC in ala mainstream detective fiction style, or had they gone ahead and resolved it with MC acting resentful and rebellious to the rampant corruption, then this show would have been freaking nothing but a banal repetition. But with the resolution, with the MC being neither supportive nor repulsive to the corruption, and at best with some sublime apathy to it all, the show gets a whole new dimension. And it opens up vastly more possibilities than any detective show has ever ventured in imho.

It remains to be seen just how deep they will go but as unimpressive as the mystery itself was in the first episode, the resolution and the setting have me wishing for more and quite honestly, a straight up "mystery" like the one in the episode was probably the best way to open the show if it is indeed going to deal with the themes I think it is going to deal with. Because a straight up case is the best way to delineate the setting and to contrast the different modus operandi of the characters.

Before I started making this post, I wasn't all that impressed but in the midst of making this exposition, I found myself liking what I saw much more. Good thing, for I was almost at the brink of losing all motivation to come discuss stuff. Even if most of the discussions are redundant and pointless bickering, they help you see a show from a different angle. Cool beans.
Rie Kaishō (the girl) thinks the outcome is beautiful in the logic of Kaoru Kanō's reputation. Had he been alive and arrested, his reputation would have been dragged through the dirt and all of his heroics during the previous war would have been forgotten - in death, people would remember his crimes over those. By dying before any arrest, his reputation remains somewhat clear - he's a war hero. There was suspicions of crime, but they were unfounded.

I fully understand as well why Shinjūrō Yūki (the MC) elects not to battle against the Chairman's statements at the end - and again, it is a matter of reputation. Shinjūrō knows the truth, but the papers have him down as the "Defeated Detective" - the one who always gets it wrong. The Chairman has a high standing in terms of dealing with crimes - and thus his deductions end up being the ruling.

Sure, it's corrupt as hell, but that's the way it seems to work. Shinjūrō at first must have disagreed with the Chairman's way of dealing with things (as it is literally bending the truth to ridiculous proportions), but given that we're seeing him at a point where his detective reputation is at the floor (and has seen the truth bent so many times), going against the Chairman doesn't make sense anymore. Shinjūrō obviously disagrees with it, but there's no point.


Anyway...

The OP dragged me here (the art style...Rie in particular and School Food Punishment's OP music) to make this my 11th anime of the season

In terms of my own thoughts of the episode, I loved it. I have to admit I was thrown off by the red herrings (not really watched proper detective shows - only thing I've seen is Kami-sama no Memo-chou, and that never really explored these kind of mysteries).

The lead is an extremely interesting character to me, as is Inga. Just what happened at the start of the episode? How are Shinjūrō and Inga linked? What is Inga?

No word of a lie, from the OP, I thought Izumi Koyama was a guy...

Either way, I'm in - and fully anticipating Episode 2.
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Old 2011-10-16, 08:42   Link #174
kuroishinigami
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Nice first episode. Sure, the trick is quite obvious, but I like the main character detectives a lot. Cold, and to the point. It's better than 1st episode of Guilty Crown for me. Hope it can keep up the quality.
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Old 2011-10-16, 09:04   Link #175
Triple_R
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Well, of all of the new Detective anime shows that we have had this year (and there have been quite a few), this one comes the closest to hitting on that Sherlock Holmes spirit that made Detective works popular to begin with.

We're given a high-profile crime, we're given a variety of different possible suspects, and eventually one is determined and proven to be the culprit of the crime, through carefully surveying the crime scene and making logical deductions.

You'd think that having content like this in an ostensibly Detective show would be elementary, Watson, but the various anime Detective shows of this year often have nothing of the sort.

So UN-GO is a much-welcomed exception here, and for that alone, this first episode deserves high marks.


Now, something can be "beautiful" in one sense but "grotesque" in another. What's beautiful here is how such a messy and chaotic situation is all tied up, so neat and tidy, with a war hero's reputation maintained. It's morally grotesque, but intellectually (and perhaps pragmatically) beautiful.

And this episode does show a hard truth that Detectives sometimes encounter. To paraphrase a famous Jack Nicholson character, it is often held by the higher-ups that people "can't handle the truth". When this happens, a Detective's work is hidden away, never to see the light of day. He is truly a "Defeated Detective". And that's exactly what we see here.


Another positive for me is how the Defeated Detective in question is a calm, reserved man, overlooking a sea of hammy chaos. I loved the contrast between him and his partner Inga, as well as the contrast between him and the very loud and vibrant characters all about him. This helps to convey a sense of cool detachment between him and the rest of the world, that can help to make a Detective seem more compelling and intriguing. At the same time, it made for a lot of colorful, forceful dialogue and confrontations.


Now, I do have some criticisms here. I found the pacing almost harsh in its quickness. At one point, I just threw my hands up in the air and didn't even try to get all of the character names, or keep track of every pertinent detail. This did admittedly take away some of the enjoyment of the episode for me. However, I still did get the gist of the murder mystery at play, of the key background details factoring into it, and just why the suspects mentioned were considered suspects.


Overall, 9/10 for Episode 1. Not bad, not bad at all.
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Old 2011-10-16, 09:11   Link #176
ookamigirl
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So Yuuki is a detective... something like a Sherlock Holmes meets Psychic Detective Yakumo or something like that. Hmm.. Inga is pretty weird, but gets info when needed.
The case was really interesting.
This looks very promising. Will be watching it.
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Old 2011-10-16, 12:24   Link #177
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well, of all of the new Detective anime shows that we have had this year (and there have been quite a few), this one comes the closest to hitting on that Sherlock Holmes spirit that made Detective works popular to begin with.

We're given a high-profile crime, we're given a variety of different possible suspects, and eventually one is determined and proven to be the culprit of the crime, through carefully surveying the crime scene and making logical deductions.
What variety? Unless you count the unnamed SP and the victim himself, you pretty much have three... and two were ruled out within minutes of the murder. (Not that the trick with the alcohol wasn't a dead giveaway...)
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Old 2011-10-16, 15:12   Link #178
felix
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What variety? Unless you count the unnamed SP and the victim himself, you pretty much have three... and two were ruled out within minutes of the murder. (Not that the trick with the alcohol wasn't a dead giveaway...)
Well, I'd say this was the "Detective show for newbs in 20minutes"

Since it's only 11 episodes I'd say it should pick up pretty soon in the mystery department (hopefully).
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Old 2011-10-16, 16:54   Link #179
Eater of All
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Yeah, the case isn't really all that great, but this is probably done to focus on the true purpose of the episode: introducing the characters and setting. In that regard, it does a very good job IMO, showcasing right away how Shinjuurou and Inga normally do their thing, their relationship with Kaishou, and hints of the underlying history of the setting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
And this episode does show a hard truth that Detectives sometimes encounter. To paraphrase a famous Jack Nicholson character, it is often held by the higher-ups that people "can't handle the truth". When this happens, a Detective's work is hidden away, never to see the light of day. He is truly a "Defeated Detective". And that's exactly what we see here.
Alice's philosophical ramblings in Kamisama no Memochou are zzz half the time, but her Speaker for the Dead reference, "digging up lost words to harm the living" really captures this aspect of a detective's job.
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Old 2011-10-17, 00:14   Link #180
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
What variety? Unless you count the unnamed SP and the victim himself, you pretty much have three... and two were ruled out within minutes of the murder. (Not that the trick with the alcohol wasn't a dead giveaway...)
I'm not saying it's a great Detective mystery or anything, just that it was nice to see some actual different suspects for a change. Even just that one red herring with the two guys dressed up in Napolean-esque clothing was refreshing to me.

The "Whodunnit?" aspect wasn't fantastic here, but at least it's actually there.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Eater of All View Post
Alice's philosophical ramblings in Kamisama no Memochou are zzz half the time, but her Speaker for the Dead reference, "digging up lost words to harm the living" really captures this aspect of a detective's job.
True, and good point, but I think that's the antithesis of what UN-GO is aiming for.

Rather than the Detective ideal of determining and expressing the truth, no matter how painful it is, what we see in this anime is a "Defeated Detective" that reluctantly agrees to not be a "Speaker for the Dead".
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