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Old 2013-03-04, 19:02   Link #1981
Xion Valkyrie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
Hm?

Wave is closer to Lawful Good than every single Night Raid member (including Tatsumi) and no villain at all. Bors was lawful neutral. If you want grey villains, look at Night Raid, who are murderers for hire, but for an understandable motivation.
I should have used the word 'antagonist'. Wave is definitely wavering in between Lawful Good and Lawful Neutral though. Most of Night Raid would fall under Chaotic Good. Their targets have to fulfill certain requirements first, that's why they do research before taking a contract. They don't just arbitrarily kill anyone if someone pays the right price.

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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post

The only insanely "evil guys" are the PM and some of the random thugs in the series. Kurome and Seriyuu are products of their corrupt society than truly evil people. Esdese is a ruthless monster towards her enemies, but that's only one side to her.

And Tatsumi has never changed his conviction since chapter 2, and that was better make country so his friends deaths weren't meaningless, he's just willing to do almost anything to bring it about. I do agree with you on Kenshin, but to be fair there is no other series that really does that better.
Akame went through the same things that Kurome did, but Akame saw what she did was wrong. Kurome pretty much enjoys what she does. She's pretty much a psychopath from the way she's presented. Seiryuu I guess is really just so crazy and psychologically damaged that she's probably not even aware of the repercussions of her actions vs the idealism in her beliefs.

As for Tatsumi's convictions, I don't really feel them. He's really still a kid thrust into a terrible situation, hence his beliefs are more spurred on by the people around him (and their deaths) than by anything that he truly believes in. His beliefs are tested when he meets Esdese, since her 'moe' side basically throws a lot of his convictions into disarray as they were not really based on very strong foundations in the first place. Of course, he says that he'll fight her the next time he sees her, but I really don't feel like he can go through with it. He hasn't gotten enough development in that sense.

Last edited by Xion Valkyrie; 2013-03-04 at 19:42.
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Old 2013-03-04, 19:13   Link #1982
Mentar
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Originally Posted by bones View Post
Nonsense, Wave knows that the empire is seriously messed up, but he chooses to disregard that fact because his main priority is to repay his benefactor.
It's still the valid government, and from his perspective, he is hunting terrorists and murderers. What did Wave do to warrant anything other than lawful good?

Quote:
As for Esdese, I understand that she's a soldier but that doesn't excuse her behavior towards those that she captures.
I didn't mention Esdese at all. We know from her backstory how she got as warped as she is now, but she's not merely a cruel killer, but she's shown as being genuinely caring for her subordinates. She's not "just" evil.

Quote:
you don't see Night Raid gong around roasting people in boiling oil.
Right, you only see them shishkebob people or backstabbing them with needles.

If you seriously see a major qualitative difference between NR and Esdese's Jaegers, and can clearly distinguish between "Good" and "Bad", I'm afraid that you have a decidedly different impression of what this entire story is about than I do.
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Old 2013-03-04, 19:50   Link #1983
Iron Maw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xion Valkyrie View Post
Akame went through the same things that Kurome did, but Akame saw what she did was wrong. Kurome pretty much enjoys what she does.
Read the beginning pages of ch 33 again, it's implied that she went through much worse and is still going through some of it even now. She wasn't born the way she is or anything. You can't expect everyone to handle such hardships the same.

Quote:
As for Tatsumi's convictions, I don't really feel them. He's really still a kid thrust into a terrible situation, hence his beliefs are more spurred on by the people around him (and their deaths) than by anything that he truly believes in. His beliefs are tested when he meets Esdese, since her 'moe' side basically throws a lot of his convictions into disarray as they were not really based on very strong foundations in the first place. Of course, he says that he'll fight her the next time he sees her, but I really don't feel like he can go through with it. He hasn't gotten enough development in that sense.
Ofcourse he's still kid, the manga makes that pretty clear, but Tatsumi is also mature enough to stick to his guns while accepting that others have different ideals than his own. He's not as hard towards Esdese because she not as bad as he expected her to be.

BTW, Tatsumi doesn't agree with everything NR does either, but their goals normally align with his.
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Old 2013-03-04, 20:00   Link #1984
bones
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
It's still the valid government, and from his perspective, he is hunting terrorists and murderers. What did Wave do to warrant anything other than lawful good?



I didn't mention Esdese at all. We know from her backstory how she got as warped as she is now, but she's not merely a cruel killer, but she's shown as being genuinely caring for her subordinates. She's not "just" evil.



Right, you only see them shishkebob people or backstabbing them with needles.

If you seriously see a major qualitative difference between NR and Esdese's Jaegers, and can clearly distinguish between "Good" and "Bad", I'm afraid that you have a decidedly different impression of what this entire story is about than I do.
It's valid only as long as it maintains the laws otherwise it's just a tyranny.

I don't care how good she is to her subordinates, that's just self interest It's how she treats her enemies that define whether she's good or evil.

So now you're equating assassination which Night Raid does and the torture which Esdese does?

Yes, there's a difference, Night Raid knows that what they are doing are wrong and they have accepted the burden of their sins unlike the majority of the Jaegers with the exception of Bors. I'm still ambivalent on Wave though as he has yet to encounter a situation that makes him question himself.
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Old 2013-03-09, 15:52   Link #1985
Dr_Crowbar
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OMG chapter 34 is out on baidu
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Old 2013-03-09, 16:39   Link #1986
Soji
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Spoiler for ch 34:

Last edited by Soji; 2013-03-09 at 16:53.
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Old 2013-03-09, 17:29   Link #1987
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about time, wonder what took so long to put the new chap out
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Old 2013-03-09, 17:54   Link #1988
Shinon
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Originally Posted by Dr_Crowbar View Post
OMG chapter 34 is out on baidu
can u give link plz
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Old 2013-03-09, 19:10   Link #1989
Dr_Crowbar
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here the link to the new chapter 34
http://tieba.baidu.com/p/2203036610
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Old 2013-03-09, 19:19   Link #1990
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hmmm dat color page
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Old 2013-03-09, 19:21   Link #1991
Randrak42
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Spoiler for 34:
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Old 2013-03-09, 21:51   Link #1992
NeutralZero
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Its nice to see her in a formal/casual clothing after all the time she's featured wearing a military base uniform...
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Old 2013-03-10, 05:02   Link #1993
Tenchi Hou Take
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Wait why does night raid have the random ass hair colors, Jaegar's are all naturally occuring (in the real world anyway). Aside from esdes but she's an anomaly in more ways than one.
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Old 2013-03-10, 05:10   Link #1994
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Wait why does night raid have the random ass hair colors, Jaegar's are all naturally occuring (in the real world anyway). Aside from esdes but she's an anomaly in more ways than one.
dunno but it always like that since the beginning so dont care
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Old 2013-03-16, 21:12   Link #1995
Randrak42
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Didn't think I could hate Seryuu more...but wouldn't you know it, the author found a way.
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Old 2013-03-16, 21:43   Link #1996
blackwhite67
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Dammit. So in the end Kurome survived.
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Old 2013-03-16, 22:09   Link #1997
ShiroiRyu
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Tatsumi seem composed but i'm sure he is crying in him.
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Old 2013-03-16, 23:13   Link #1998
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Big, Ugly, Nasty Gorila: YOU WILL MAKE ME FALL FOR YOU

We all know who she wants to fall for her ^^
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Old 2013-03-16, 23:58   Link #1999
Shadow5YA
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They should rename themselves to the Night Rainbow or something. I swear they had every color of the rainbow...
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Old 2013-03-17, 01:01   Link #2000
Excorsism
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I see that the author is pushing full force on the Wave x Kurome OTP. Whether it's a pairing doomed for tragedy or happiness, I really can't tell. Hoping for the latter of course (that doesn't include death).

With that being said, I wonder how long this cycle of death is going to continue. To be honest, it has really worn me out (for better or worse). It's been implied that there might be a more abled force (or on equal levels) than Esdese's group (the Prime Minister's son's group not withstanding), at least based on what Esdese was thinking.
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