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Old 2012-06-22, 05:35   Link #801
Iron Maw
The Black Wing
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Nope. I know pretty well what you mean. But seem to me that you guys forgot that she is still a MosterWhile I can agree she had her good side(strange) and care for her men. She still a Monster don't think you can change this with her dere-dere side or with
Spoiler for spoiler:
.And if you think the problem is only in killing and torture ....then you're really miss the point here.
Sure you can if the character has have enough redeemable traits and is being expanded to do so. Some of most common ideas in fiction is that even the most heinous villains can gain redemption when possible. They even tend to become heros themselves or preform heroic acts. Esdese already did one by rescuing River from his unlawful imprisonment and giving him a new life. I think you should know she's not that simple.


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Really this will be a bad end and a very bad message to give.
So not matter how much you kill,torture, try to make new rebellions happen and give reasons to them for such things to happen again so that you can enjoy the fight in solve this problem again,mind break some one that was a hero to the point that he become like a faithful dog and then just kill him when you got bored of him.You will earn you're happy ending if you act all dere-dere and fall in love with the mc and show some good side

This an overreaction because you're assuming she and Tatsumi would not gone through the necessary changes and events to have that happen. If can she really can't get a happy end due to her deeds, then this can be applied to everyone else in this story. I don't think this what the author is going for. Also Her dere-dere is also not a n act, It's one her major character traits.

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Like I say if she survive she not only need to change and atone for all the thing she done until now. But she still need to fail in gain her love dream with Tatsumi,meaning Tatsumi have to reject her and not love her back.This is a lesson that she need to learn. Then she can fall in love again and earn her happy ending(that still sound soo wrong after all the thing she done ..to tell you the true.).
I'm not sure why she would need "fail to get Tatsumi" though. That isn't even her dream to begin with, but rather to meet a worthy opponent in battle.

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Honestly Esdes is more similar to Siryuu and Aria and her family from ch 1. Not at that lv maybe but still similar to them
Though I do agree with people that say that she is not like the prime minister.
Not seeing this at all. Hell even Seryuu isn't like Aria.

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No from what i remember
Spoiler for spoiler:
That sounds even more interesting.

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Also about Tatsumi that want to try to bring Esdes on their side is nothing really like people think.this just show that he is smart when he want or like Iron Maw say he can see the bigger picture when necessary.
It's also shows that he doesn't think she that bad, and can be brought around. Otherwise he never would even suggested.

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Though....
Spoiler for spoiler:
Of course he would be now though, she is his greatest enemy at the moment. The question is whether it well remain so as the series progress.

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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
Sure, she's a monster. But so are the NR. There are no really good people in the manga, especially the main band of assassins for hire.
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. While NR are far from Saints (the line really doesn't permit it) they do try help people when they can.
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Old 2012-06-22, 05:47   Link #802
Soji
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It doesn't have to be vulgar that he'd have to 'do' her to pass the gay test, just that all that goes on in his mind is RUN AWAY whenever she approaches him.
And in all honestly you can't blame him? Because I can't.

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That is mere speculation and absolutely the LAST thing I want the author to be doing. But he certainly isn't afraid to kill off either good or bad guys as we have seen earlier. It's like his message is don't get too attached to anyone in particular. If he kills Esdes, I'm sure many tables will be flipped and cats get strangled or... something.
Well is still tragedy. Even if I like most of them to survive ,we pretty much know that most of them if not all will die in the end.

Think about it
Spoiler for spoiler:


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I'm not sure why she would need "fail to get Tatsumi" though. That isn't even her dream to begin with, but rather to meet a worthy opponent in battle.
Let me give you some example. We see thanks to river and even when she made the whole list and take Tatsumi at the end of ch 16.That what she want she get.If you rememer she does say something like this to River.
And she still think that she can force her feeling on him,I think ch 19 was pretty clear about this. Even if she give the permission a the Jeaster to kill Tatsumi if come to their live.And I know what she think after that so,no need to remind me that part.That's why she need to fail to get Tatsumi that way. To learn that not matter how stronger you are,no matter how much you try there is thing you can't get.especially when it come to love.
Like it or not she need to learn this lesson.

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This an overreaction because you're assuming she and Tatsumi would not gone through the necessary changes and events to have that happen. If can she really can't get a happy end due to her deeds, then this can be applied to everyone else in this story. I don't think this what the author is going for. Also Her dere-dere is also not a n act, It's one her major character traits.
Is not really overreaction is what I think...because let's be honest here you really think that Esdes would change to that poin? And tatsumi as well? I think that you too optimistic in this.Also like I say many time she cross the line way too much for a change like this to happen. Hell from what we know her love for Tatsumi will be her down fall. especially when Esdes will do something like attack a member of NR or some other innocent we know too well what happen when Tatsumi see something like this or a innocent or memember of NR die.
The way the thing are now the only thing I really can see is that tatsumi can become a worthy opponent for her .
Though I start to wonder if people here like her soo much alredy from her first appearance in this manga.

Last edited by Soji; 2012-06-22 at 06:05.
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Old 2012-06-22, 06:00   Link #803
OverSeer
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So, anyone know if chapter 27th came out?

OFF TOPIC:

A quick question, are there any mangas which are similar or can closely relate to this one?

Last edited by OverSeer; 2012-06-22 at 06:26.
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Old 2012-06-22, 06:49   Link #804
Iron Maw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post

Let me give you some example. We see thanks to river and even when she made the whole list and take Tatsumi at the end of ch 16.That what she want she get.If you rememer she does say something like this to River.
And she still think that she can force her feeling on him,I think ch 19 was pretty clear about this. Even if she give the permission a the Jeaster to kill Tatsumi if come to their live.And I know what she think after that so,no need to remind me that part.That's why she need to fail to get Tatsumi that way. To learn that not matter how stronger you are,no matter how much you try there is thing you can't get.especially when it come to love.
Like it or not she need to learn this lesson.
Unless she does something really terrible in order get Tatsumi to love her (which wouldn't work on him anyway) I think you're kind of "gasping at straws" here. And Esdese choosing the lives of her subordinates which she feels obligated to protect over someone she just met doesn't prove she needs to "fail at getting Tatsumi" either. It means she has a her priorities straight

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Is not really overreaction is what I think...because let's be honest here you really think that Esdes would change to that poin? And tatsumi as well? I think that you too optimistic in this.
We are talking about a warmonger who has just falling in love, and kid not months ago was just a ordinary person before he became a assassin. It's entirely possible and not just optimistic. Whether it comes true or not is irrelevant.

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Also like I say many time she cross the line way too much for a change like this to happen. Hell from what we know her love for Tatsumi will be her down fall. especially when Esdes will do something like attack a member of NR or some other innocent we know too well what happen when Tatsumi see something like this or a innocent or memember of NR die.
The way the thing are now the only thing I really can see is that tatsumi can become a worthy opponent for her .
Though I start to wonder if people here like her soo much alredy from her first appearance in this manga.
Parts of these points is something I have already addressed in earlier posts and the argument is really going in circles now. So I'll just talk about the bold, if that happens thats because it's her job and NR are well prepared for it. This is exemplified after the fight between Seryuu, Mein and Schere. Mein understood Schere's death came about because of their actions, but this doesn't(and shouldn't) stop her for wanting revenge.

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Originally Posted by OverSeer View Post
So, anyone know if chapter 27th came out?
If it's out and we know, it will be posted here. Under spoiler tags of course.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2012-06-22 at 07:01.
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Old 2012-06-22, 08:21   Link #805
Soji
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Unless she does something really terrible in order get Tatsumi to love her (which wouldn't work on him anyway) I think you're kind of "gasping at straws" here. And Esdese choosing the lives of her subordinates which she feels obligated to protect over someone she just met doesn't prove she needs to "fail at getting Tatsumi" either. It means she has a her priorities straight
More than that seem that we have different opinion on what is terrible/unforgivable or difficult to forgive.For me she alraedy cross that line while for you she still can be forgive and change side (with the right developments).Now will be interesting see what route the author will chose but ....the way I see this is more on the path of a bloodbath.About Esdes choice the Jester instead of Tatsumi ,I use this example for point out what you just say. Esdes will never betray her man's even for Tatsumi. And we know she will have to chose when she will find out about Tatsumi= NR.Even if Esdes take Tatsumi with her ,with or without know about him being part of NR and have Incursio.And the first time that Nr Vs Jeaster happen ,Tatsumi will side with NR .
Quote:
We are talking about a warmonger who has just falling in love, and kid not months ago was just a ordinary person before he became a assassin. It's entirely possible and not just optimistic. Whether it comes true or not is irrelevant.
Yeah . But like I say in this post both of them are pretty faithful a their own group.So while I get you're point I really can't see that happen.

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Parts of these points is something I have already addressed in earlier posts and the argument is really going in circles now. So I'll just talk about the bold, if that happens thats because it's her job and NR are well prepared for it. This is exemplified after the fight between Seryuu, Mein and Schere. Mein understood Schere's death came about because of their actions, but this doesn't(and shouldn't) stop her for wanting revenge.
A sorry . It seem I forgot that you have already answer a part of that point then.
Anyway back on topic.That's my point they all have some one that want to revenge and when some one else of their group die ,they will want revenge for that one.And you alraedy know what I think about Esdes and Tatsumi what they think about their group. This is not Naruto ,Bleach or Fairy Tail where the power of love and friendship make you're enemy switch side or no one (or almost no one) die in the fight.whether we like it or not the most likely outcome to happen is a all out fight between the 2 group.And we already know that most of them will die. Though I would not mind if this not happen.
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Old 2012-06-22, 10:39   Link #806
evil|plushie
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
Eh, I wouldn't go that far. While NR are far from Saints (the line really doesn't permit it) they do try help people when they can.
Remember Ogre? The corrupted guard captain they killed? Remember how they were assigned to that mission? A girl had to prostitute herself enough to get the money to hire them to kill Ogre. There was no indication that this was in any way unusual. They're not robin hood, they don't rob the rich to give to the poor. They take money from the poor to kill the rich/powerful/corrupted
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Old 2012-06-22, 10:53   Link #807
Soji
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evil|plushie@ To be fair we alraedy know this when we read that they are Assasin on hire.
After all they still need mony to liveAnd we see Leona trick Tatsumi and gain mony from him as well.
Also I can be wrong but I thought they take mony from whoever hire them not only the poor.
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Old 2012-06-22, 11:59   Link #808
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can anyone explain to me the special chapter which came out after 26th. Whats is itreally about? and I take it takes place before the actual events of 26 but after Tatsumis escape from Esdese right??
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Old 2012-06-22, 12:31   Link #809
Iron Maw
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Originally Posted by Soji View Post
About Esdes choice the Jester instead of Tatsumi ,I use this example for point out what you just say. Esdes will never betray her man's even for Tatsumi.
No, but what about the Empire and PM himself? I say there's good chance considering her personality. Her men likely more loyal to her than the current government if we go by Rivers dialogue and actions anyway.

Quote:
Yeah . But like I say in this post both of them are pretty faithful a their own group.So while I get you're point I really can't see that happen.
I'm just saying that the scenario isn't impossible. The fact of the matter is Tatsumi and Esdese are being paired quite a bit and something going come if it one way or another.

Quote:
A sorry . It seem I forgot that you have already answer a part of that point then.
Anyway back on topic.That's my point they all have some one that want to revenge and when some one else of their group die ,they will want revenge for that one.And you alraedy know what I think about Esdes and Tatsumi what they think about their group. This is not Naruto ,Bleach or Fairy Tail where the power of love and friendship make you're enemy switch side or no one (or almost no one) die in the fight.whether we like it or not the most likely outcome to happen is a all out fight between the 2 group.And we already know that most of them will die. Though I would not mind if this not happen.
I agree in general, but situations can change to bring about deflections and some of based on mutual benefits, ideological changes or whatever else.

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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
Remember Ogre? The corrupted guard captain they killed? Remember how they were assigned to that mission? A girl had to prostitute herself enough to get the money to hire them to kill Ogre. There was no indication that this was in any way unusual. They're not robin hood, they don't rob the rich to give to the poor. They take money from the poor to kill the rich/powerful/corrupted
My understanding is that it is a necessity for them to operate. They need things from city and villages they can't get in wild and whatever personal needs (like Tatsumi sending money back to his hometown). They're also risking lives on these requests and according to Akame back in Ch3 members often die in these missions. NR doesn't have the huge government backed resources behind them like Jaeger does so they have do what they can within reason. I also I'm pretty sure NR takes missions from the public in general, however they don't take just do any request from just anybody. They also investigate both client and targets background/history to avoid trickery and deceit. In case of things like that happening, they will probably decline the request.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2012-06-22 at 13:15.
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Old 2012-06-22, 13:28   Link #810
Soji
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No, but what about the Empire and PM himself? I say there good chance. Her men likely more loyal to her than the current government if by what River actions.
I agree with this. But i don't think all of them would side with Esdes,though like you say there is a big chance for something like this to happen.The problem here is that only Esdes seem to know about the PM and Empire true color.And we know full well what Seyriu would do if she think that Esdes ally herself with the RA or /and NR.Also while they seem to be more loyal to her if they belive that she betray the empire and don't know or belive about the Pm /empire true color there is the chance that they still do the same as always and even try to take down Esdes.
Quote:
I'm just that the scenario isn't impossible. The fact of the matter is Tatsumi and Esdese are being paired quite a bit and something going come if it one way or another.
Well I agree that isn't impossible. Still have really few chance to happen and something already come from this,to be fair . Thanks to this Tatsumi was able to tell about the Jeaster and their teigu(at least the one he see) to NR.And Tatsumi see how powerfull Esdes trully is.
Spoiler for ch 26:
For some reason the author make sure that Tatsumi is the one to know better Esdes power and skill.Whatever is the reason for this ,I'm curios to find out.What ever other reason the author have for this(make them past soo much time togheter)well we need to wait and see.Though to be fair is normal that when he was with the Jester most of the time he was with Esdes ...I mean she want him close her almost all the time.
Spoiler for ch 26:
Althoug...
Spoiler for spoiler:

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I agree in general, but situations can change to bring about deflections and some of based on mutual benefits, ideological changes or whatever else.
That's true. The problem is,if this happen what will be the trigger for something like this.


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I got that was necessity for them to operate. They need things from city and villages they can't get in wild and whatever personal needs (like Tatsumi sending money back to his hometown). They're also risking lives on these requests and according to Akame back in Ch3 members often die in these missions. NR doesn't have the huge government backed resources behind them like Jaeger does so they have do what they can within reason.
Agree. this is how I understand the whole thing as well.And Akame do say that to Tatsumi and that's why she was glad that he was fine and without wound. Hell Leona even teaste them saying that Akame would feel lonely without him XD

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I also I'm pretty sure NR takes missions from the public in general, however they don't take just do any request from just anybody. They also investigate both client and targets background/history to avoid trickery and deceit. In case of things like that happening, they will probably decline request.
Yeah. The boss ask Leona if she had verified the request before say that they accept the mission.
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Old 2012-06-22, 18:31   Link #811
Iron Maw
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Chapter 20 is out.

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Originally Posted by Soji View Post
I agree with this. But i don't think all of them would side with Esdes,though like you say there is a big chance for something like this to happen.The problem here is that only Esdes seem to know about the PM and Empire true color.And we know full well what Seyriu would do if she think that Esdes ally herself with the RA or /and NR.Also while they seem to be more loyal to her if they belive that she betray the empire and don't know or belive about the Pm /empire true color there is the chance that they still do the same as always and even try to take down Esdes.
I don't think Esdese would really care here, Seryuu is free to leave her army and stay with the Empire if that's the case.
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Old 2012-06-22, 19:06   Link #812
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At least I finally know why Stylish didn't report in, looks like he doesn't respect Esdese because she fell in love. Also they probably should have researched more about the enemy Teigu, especially Mein's, they gave her so much extra fire power because of the base invasion and all the team being under attack. Once again I'm confused since it looks like the Najenda in the flash back was using the gun, so wouldn't the Empire know all about it?
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Old 2012-06-22, 19:32   Link #813
Iron Maw
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Ch 20 was pretty awesome, was not expecting to see Schere's Teigu again like that though. Seems like Tatsumi also told everyone why Esdese kidnapped him. Najenda sure know how to make an entrance.

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Once again I'm confused since it looks like the Najenda in the flash back was using the gun, so wouldn't the Empire know all about it?
The Empire probably did, but Stylish may or may not have. I don't it matters since Kaku died due to arrogance. He put too much faith into his body instead of dodging.
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Old 2012-06-22, 20:41   Link #814
evil|plushie
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Originally Posted by Iron Maw View Post
My understanding is that it is a necessity for them to operate. They need things from city and villages they can't get in wild and whatever personal needs (like Tatsumi sending money back to his hometown). They're also risking lives on these requests and according to Akame back in Ch3 members often die in these missions. NR doesn't have the huge government backed resources behind them like Jaeger does so they have do what they can within reason. I also I'm pretty sure NR takes missions from the public in general, however they don't take just do any request from just anybody. They also investigate both client and targets background/history to avoid trickery and deceit. In case of things like that happening, they will probably decline the request.

Just saying since a lot of people seem to think they're good guys. Or white knights etc etc. They're not in this for justice solely, they're also in this for money.
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Old 2012-06-22, 20:47   Link #815
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Well people got to live some way, Night Raid can still be some type of White knight and still earn a living. They get paid for their services and at the same time do good for society.
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Old 2012-06-22, 21:19   Link #816
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Those two are really siblings. They ate a lot but the difference though was one is a giver while the other is not
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Old 2012-06-22, 21:23   Link #817
ReaperxKingx
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Another difference is one of the sibling is eating something that has nutritional value which is protein while the other gives you diabetes and cavities.
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Old 2012-06-22, 22:41   Link #818
Iron Maw
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Am I the only one who at one point thought Leone might have gotten Tatsumi drunk during this chapter? It seems so much like her to do that. That said, I doubt she's dead for something like that, but... you never know with this series. I'll keep an optimistic view for now.

I'm also really curious on what this Divination Tegiu the Rebel army has.

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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
Just saying since a lot of people seem to think they're good guys. Or white knights etc etc. They're not in this for justice solely, they're also in this for money.
Well yeah I agree. NR has even said it themselves, but they aren't heinous villains either. Really everything they're doing is in preparation for Revolution with hopes for the promise of a better country. It's just like with any revolution, it will be bloody.

Last edited by Iron Maw; 2012-06-23 at 01:38.
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Old 2012-06-23, 01:13   Link #819
evil|plushie
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Originally Posted by ReaperxKingx View Post
Well people got to live some way, Night Raid can still be some type of White knight and still earn a living. They get paid for their services and at the same time do good for society.
Your definition of white knight is very loose. The fact is an innocent girl had to prostitute herself enough to hire them with a large bag of money. Would any type of white knight even let that happen in the first place
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Old 2012-06-23, 06:21   Link #820
ReaperxKingx
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All things considered, there really isn't no true white knight in the world. I don't think Nightraid knew how she got the money until Leone met her and smell her scent. The mission had somehat of a bit of pity for the girl since they knew she isn't going to last and did her request as a way to send her off.
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