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Old 2012-07-02, 06:25   Link #941
LoweGear
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Not sure if I've posted this here before, but meh.

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Old 2012-07-02, 13:52   Link #942
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http://gizmodo.com/5922738/did-scien...e-god-particle

The latest science news today is that CERN is going to announce on wednesday that Higgs Boson has passed the 4 sigma level of discovery, meaning that it is 99.99% confirmed.
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Old 2012-07-02, 14:29   Link #943
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...bies-born.html

The world's first geneticallymodified humans have been created, it was revealed last night.
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Old 2012-07-02, 14:48   Link #944
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...bies-born.html

The world's first geneticallymodified humans have been created, it was revealed last night.
Can we have more of these? We need them for the world. Badly.
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Old 2012-07-02, 15:05   Link #945
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I did like the image of Yoda in the CERN article.
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Old 2012-07-02, 15:07   Link #946
Anh_Minh
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...bies-born.html

The world's first geneticallymodified humans have been created, it was revealed last night.
It's just mitochondria? I find the title a bit misleading.

Still, I wonder what the problem is with making our kids stronger and smarter... I'm sure there are ethical problems with genetic engineering, but that can't be it.
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Old 2012-07-02, 15:22   Link #947
Ithekro
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They seem to be worried about making humans into products.

Also maybe in taking the sex out of it (and thus some control exchanged with control handed to the genesequencers).
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Old 2012-07-02, 15:23   Link #948
mangamuscle
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Still, I wonder what the problem is with making our kids stronger and smarter...
Are you sure you can't remember one?
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Old 2012-07-02, 15:31   Link #949
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
They seem to be worried about making humans into products.

Also maybe in taking the sex out of it (and thus some control exchanged with control handed to the genesequencers).
No worries! The new world they create will be braver than ours.
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Old 2012-07-02, 15:31   Link #950
Sugetsu
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's just mitochondria? I find the title a bit misleading.

Still, I wonder what the problem is with making our kids stronger and smarter... I'm sure there are ethical problems with genetic engineering, but that can't be it.
The problem comes when money is involved. Money and ethics don't mix. The result would be that only the upper class will be able to afford all the "upgrades" to create "perfect" children. This will lead to even more segregation and division among people.
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Old 2012-07-02, 15:34   Link #951
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The Native Americans and Catholics won't like that "Brave New World".
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Old 2012-07-02, 15:35   Link #952
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
The problem comes when money is involved. Money and ethics don't mix. The result would be that only the upper class will be able to afford all the "upgrades" to create "perfect" children. This will lead to even more segregation and division among people.
I think the opposite, the upgrades will be cheap as dirt (we are talking about easy to mass produce vectors that will change DNA), but goverments will ban them on supposed morale standards *cough* steroids *cough* Besides, the republicans wants their constituients to become more stupid, not more intelligent.

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The Native Americans and Catholics won't like that "Brave New World".
Don't know about the natives, but I am all for becoming stronger and smarter
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Old 2012-07-02, 15:58   Link #953
Sugetsu
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
I think the opposite, the upgrades will be cheap as dirt (we are talking about easy to mass produce vectors that will change DNA), but goverments will ban them on supposed morale standards *cough* steroids *cough* Besides, the republicans wants their constituients to become more stupid, not more intelligent.
I insist. It is not matter of how cheap the upgrades are. As long as money is involved, nothing good will come out of it. The need for profit will override any moral, ethical and cultural boundaries. Our civilization is in a period when our scientific advancements are surpassing our spiritual/ethical levels. Whats the use of having great knowledge if we don't have the wisdom to use it correctly? We might as well be monkeys playing in a nuclear silo.
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Old 2012-07-02, 16:19   Link #954
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
The problem comes when money is involved. Money and ethics don't mix. The result would be that only the upper class will be able to afford all the "upgrades" to create "perfect" children. This will lead to even more segregation and division among people.
So your solution is to level by the bottom? To make everyone dumber?

And what do you do when you find someone's enjoyed clandestine modification to be stronger, prettier, and smarter? It's not like it's their fault. They were born that way.

And while we're at it with that kind of reasoning, why not ban private schools, private tutors, and parents spending time with their kids, just to level the playing field a bit more?

Yes, the world is unequal. It's too bad. There are all kinds of things we have to do to reduce those better the lot of those less fortunate, and it'll never be enough. But criminalizing parents for wanting what's best for their kids isn't the solution. Money's involved in immunizations too. The smart thing to do is to socialize it so everyone has them, not forbid them.
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Old 2012-07-02, 16:49   Link #955
mangamuscle
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I insist. It is not matter of how cheap the upgrades are. As long as money is involved, nothing good will come out of it.
With that line of thinking going to the 7-eleven to buy food is evil™, no matter what

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The need for profit will override any moral, ethical and cultural boundaries. Our civilization is in a period when our scientific advancements are surpassing our spiritual/ethical levels. Whats the use of having great knowledge if we don't have the wisdom to use it correctly? We might as well be monkeys playing in a nuclear silo.
Quick, gatter the toches and the pitchforks, that up to no good scientists are at it again
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Old 2012-07-02, 17:06   Link #956
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Money's involved in immunizations too. The smart thing to do is to socialize it so everyone has them, not forbid them.
This, so much. Even outside of government socialization of technology, the businesses themselves end up doing it as well. Look at the smartphone market or the PC market--what was once an absurdly expensive piece of highly sophisticated technology is now something high school kids use to post on Facebook.
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Old 2012-07-02, 17:30   Link #957
SaintessHeart
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Actually, it would be better if gene therapy can be used on human beings to redo their lives. In fact, it would all be better if such a therapy can be used to alter human figure and prevent brain cells from dying.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2012-07-02, 17:34   Link #958
Sugetsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
So your solution is to level by the bottom? To make everyone dumber?
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
With that line of thinking going to the 7-eleven to buy food is evil™, no matter what



Quick, gatter the toches and the pitchforks, that up to no good scientists are at it again
Why exactly are you assuming that I want to do anything along the those lines? Prohibition is suppression, and suppression is delusion. When people prohibit something they don't make the problem go away, it simply resurfaces in other form and with higher strength. I really don't know where you get those ideas.

What needs to happen is that we need to educate people better so that they learn how to use technology wisely. Then when technological advances with far reaching consequences, such a genetics, become available to the general public people will have an ethical standard to follow. That way we won't push the red button just because we had a tantrum or start a new eugenics program.

If you know anything about genes then you understand that many of them rely on external stimuli in order to become active. For example, you might have great potential for music but as long as you are not stimulated in a musical environment you will never develop your talents. The most critical part of a child's developmental stage are his first 3 years of life in which the brain starts losing connections it deems unnecessary.

In other words, the environment is still a stronger agent in human development, you might design a kid that has potential for faster learning and higher physical strength, but if the child is given to a poverty stricken family where he will be malnourished and not given any education all those genetic modifications will be useless.


Quote:
And what do you do when you find someone's enjoyed clandestine modification to be stronger, prettier, and smarter? It's not like it's their fault. They were born that way.
Prettier? Did you really go there? Now that I do find appalling. The only time a child's physical appearance should be modified is when it threatens his ability to function in society, such a deformations or missing limbs. Anything that goes into the realm of the cosmetics is purely subjective. What people generally perceive as physical beauty is merely the result of environmentally induced conditioning. For example, Summon wrestlers are considered attractive in Japan and repulsive in the western world. The western idea that beautiful people are Caucasian blue-eyed with blond hair is purely the result of mass media controlled by white people, nothing more.

Including subjective options such as "beauty" as part of a baby's creation package would lead to serious tolerance and self esteem issues in society, and that would only be the tip of the iceberg.

In my opinion, humanity is spiritually underdeveloped. We are not ready to take full advantage of our present technology, and I fear we are closer to self destruction than ever before. Hey wait! we are the monkeys playing in a nuclear silo after all.

PS. If people haven't realized it yet, my position on science and spirituality leads to the belief that human beings will only be able to travel to the stars when both of those forces are balanced. Therefore, if we are being visited right now rest assured that they mean us no harm.
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Last edited by Sugetsu; 2012-07-02 at 18:01.
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Old 2012-07-02, 18:44   Link #959
mangamuscle
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Originally Posted by Sugetsu View Post
What needs to happen is that we need to educate people better so that they learn how to use technology wisely.
That kind of makes sense until you realize there are no prior requirements to procreate, you are dumb as a rock, have a family history of mental illnes, are a convicted murderer, have defectuous genes due to radiation, whatever, go ahead and multiply. So if there is no education requirements to have a progeny, why whould there be any requirements to have a DNA modification, nowadays people modify their bodies (tattors, plastic surgery, transplants, etc.) as they see fit, why would you justify that changing our DNA to become better (or wackier of whatever suits your fancy) would require a minimum INT, WIS or level of education?

Quote:
Then when technological advances with far reaching consequences, such a genetics, become available to the general public people will have an ethical standard to follow. That way we won't push the red button just because we had a tantrum or start a new eugenics program.
In a sense public education, physical training, etc. is a kind of eugenics, what is wrong about wanting to be better, what is wrong in "Citius, Altius, Fortius"?

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In other words, the environment is still a stronger agent in human development
As soon as we control our genes the environment will be a far second.
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Old 2012-07-02, 20:24   Link #960
Sugetsu
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Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
why would you justify that changing our DNA to become better (or wackier of whatever suits your fancy) would require a minimum INT, WIS or level of education?
Because people will not just use it for modifying their own bodies. In some cases it will be used for entirely unnecessary modifications on children before they are born to fit the whims of the parents. It can be used as a weapon for mass sterilization at a far more effective level than current techniques. It can be used as a weapon. It will lead to people treating people as merchandise... and much more. Technology such as this has many types of applications, not just what we are discussing here.

If people have no idea how to think critically and are easily manipulated, whats to stop them for making really wrong decisions in regards to technology they know nothing about?

The problem here is that your idea of the word education differs from mine. To me education is not just acquiring standard knowledge. The educational system in this world is very outdated. Just because you know math, chemistry, physics and programming does not make you an educated person. You have only collected scientific data but still lack the other half which relates to the study of the self. This other half of your education generally comes from social interactions with your family, friends, video games, books and any other environmental factors.

In reality very few of us know how to think critically. We don't know how to take responsibility for our own actions. We don't know how to be tolerant of others. We don't know how to bridge differences between differences between people. We don't know how to manage stress. We lack self discipline and we don't know what we want. All of these issues can be addressed by our educational system.

There has been groundbreaking developments in child psychology, behavioral patterns, language, emotional control, effective thinking and much more, and guess what? They are already being put to use by corporations, marketing research, the military, politics and other areas, but little to no attention has been put into implementing this knowledge in education.

If people were truly educated they would have a good understanding of the world around them and of themselves. Then they would have a level of awareness high enough to use technology wisely, but as history shows, we lack basic understanding so we keep shooting ourselves in the foot with our own creations.


Quote:
In a sense public education, physical training, etc. is a kind of eugenics, what is wrong about wanting to be better, what is wrong in "Citius, Altius, Fortius"?



As soon as we control our genes the environment will be a far second.
I don't think you understand how genes operate. Genes a triggers. They require the right stimuli in order to become active. The environment will always be more important. Eugenics was just a misguided effort rooted in the belief that genetics are the center of our nature.
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