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Old 2012-07-04, 09:59   Link #981
zarqu
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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
The full recording of the webcast press conference held earlier today.
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Old 2012-07-04, 10:11   Link #982
Paranoid Android
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Can't listen in because I am at work, but that seems like a conference between the press and the physicists? I can't stand when the media sends incompetent uneducated people to ask shallow questions and then distort everything scientists say. I hope this video recording isn't such =/

Higgs boson: discovery cost Stephen Hawking $100
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/ar...en-hawking-100
Kekeke

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Originally Posted by The Star
“Great advancements in physics have come from experiments that gave results we didn’t expect,” he said. As a result he’d made a bet with particle physicist Gordon Kane of Michigan University that the Higgs particle wouldn’t be found.
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Originally Posted by Stephen Hawking
It seems I lost one hundred dollars,
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Old 2012-07-04, 10:26   Link #983
zarqu
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Can't listen in because I am at work, but that seems like a conference between the press and the physicists?
Yes.
Quote:
I can't stand when the media sends incompetent uneducated people to ask shallow questions and then distort everything scientists say. I hope this video recording isn't such =/
I'm 20 minutes in and no "shallow" questions so far. I'm a layman myself, so "shallow" might mean something else for someone more educated in the field. But no facepalm-inducing questions like: "So now that we have found the 'God' particle, has your personal faith been shaken?".
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Old 2012-07-04, 11:00   Link #984
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The most overused shallow question is "What is the Higgs Boson". I mean at the sound of the name, people who actually have interest should already begin looking it up. Instead of wasting time asking the physicists. The whole event is the proof and experimental result, not the definition of some words proposed by the theory.

It's like interviewing a presidential candidate and asking him/her what the legal definition of a president is. Unlike your example (which is face-palm worthy indeed), the question itself isn't stupid, but rather inappropriate and a waste of public time. On forums and casual chat, those questions are fine. But the conference should really milk the information that was not available before.
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Old 2012-07-04, 11:01   Link #985
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Interesting Topic this science is. it answers many questions but is raises many more.

i think the LHC project is a great chance to discover the fundamental elements that make up our universe. about the discoveries made here i would like to tell that even if the Higgs boson is revealed to have been discovered and studied in detail, it will require a great amount of time and money before anything leanred from this discovery can make it to the commercial environment.

like for example the nuclear fusion research. it is a fact that fusion can be made and sustained at this time, even if only for a few seconds, but the scientist estimate that until the first commercial fusion reactor will begin to operate, by our pacing in scientific advances it will take at least 80-150 years. so we might not be able to see that future.

this is why i say even i they discover that by using the Higgs boson they could manipulate gravity, it will take over 100 years until you get it into commercial use,

the only thing that could advance our scientific research is that, a more civilised and advanced race would share its tech developments which would make it easier to create some fascinating things.

my dad told that he believes that a more advnced race exist out there somewhere but he thinks that during his lifetime we won't encounter it. i too think that aliens exist but i don't want to estimate things like these.

about genetic engineering. it is a good thing if you use it for the proper purpose, that is curing diseases, eliminating harmful mutations and so on; about making the ideal human, i strongly object....we are not meant to act like gods and i think there are some things in nature that are better left to nature, even if i had the chance i'd never would "design my children" or something like this... by doing this we eliminate the "unique" quality of every single person. imagine a world where almost every men and women look almost the same.

it is certain that in a world like this the unique traits would disappear....like composing music, art, and any inspirational, cultural, side of life would become dull. this reminds me of the movie "Equilibrium". it is a good example of how life would become if you mess with the natural flow of things.

and another question raised....how would an "ideal human" feel if they were born into this world. they would feel superior at first which would then turn into depression because who wants to be friends with a know-it all, who is beautiful/handsome, and never fails in life?
then they would become lonely, depressed, then angry. thinking about it in detail if this would happen to me i would use my "gifts" to create a world that will accept me as i am, and "voila" we have a dictator, who could be invincible, and thus starting war.

this might have went too far in details but i think i tried to realistically present the effects of such things.
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Old 2012-07-04, 14:49   Link #986
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Originally Posted by csuree View Post
Interesting Topic this science is. it answers many questions but is raises many more.

i think the LHC project is a great chance to discover the fundamental elements that make up our universe. about the discoveries made here i would like to tell that even if the Higgs boson is revealed to have been discovered and studied in detail, it will require a great amount of time and money before anything leanred from this discovery can make it to the commercial environment.

like for example the nuclear fusion research. it is a fact that fusion can be made and sustained at this time, even if only for a few seconds, but the scientist estimate that until the first commercial fusion reactor will begin to operate, by our pacing in scientific advances it will take at least 80-150 years. so we might not be able to see that future.

this is why i say even i they discover that by using the Higgs boson they could manipulate gravity, it will take over 100 years until you get it into commercial use,

the only thing that could advance our scientific research is that, a more civilised and advanced race would share its tech developments which would make it easier to create some fascinating things.
We could accelerate it by spending more of our resources on it. How many more research programs could the US alone fund if all the money they spend on campaigning went to research? What's wrong with one Facebook page / candidate instead of all those trips and TV spots...

Or all we spend on sport. Not even actually participating, but just watching strangers perform.

Oh, well. I'm not actually morally opposed to using spending money of stupid shit. I'm just saying, it's a choice.

Quote:
my dad told that he believes that a more advnced race exist out there somewhere but he thinks that during his lifetime we won't encounter it. i too think that aliens exist but i don't want to estimate things like these.

about genetic engineering. it is a good thing if you use it for the proper purpose, that is curing diseases, eliminating harmful mutations and so on; about making the ideal human, i strongly object....
Not ideal. Incrementally better.

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we are not meant to act like gods
"Act like gods" is meaningless. And we already don't act like apes.

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and i think there are some things in nature that are better left to nature, even if i had the chance i'd never would "design my children" or something like this... by doing this we eliminate the "unique" quality of every single person.
Not at all. For one thing, this will be building on an existing template made from mixing genes from a father and mother, just like now. Or maybe more parents than that, just to mess with the luddites, but that will only increase the diversity.

For another, environment matters.

Quote:
imagine a world where almost every men and women look almost the same.

it is certain that in a world like this the unique traits would disappear....like composing music, art, and any inspirational, cultural, side of life would become dull. this reminds me of the movie "Equilibrium". it is a good example of how life would become if you mess with the natural flow of things.
You'll have to explain that one. If we were all alike and agreed on everything all the time, there'd be no way to dose us with valium to keep the peace.

But really, before that, you'll have to explain why you think mere genetic engineering can kill our creative spark and our drive to distinguish ourselves.

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and another question raised....how would an "ideal human" feel if they were born into this world. they would feel superior at first which would then turn into depression
Ah, adolescence. Indeed, they won't be spared that.

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because who wants to be friends with a know-it all, who is beautiful/handsome, and never fails in life?
Again, you think merely tampering with genes will protect them from failure?

Quote:
then they would become lonely, depressed, then angry. thinking about it in detail if this would happen to me i would use my "gifts" to create a world that will accept me as i am, and "voila" we have a dictator, who could be invincible, and thus starting war.
You forget three things:
- there won't be a sole GM being. The point is to spread the tech to as many customers as possible.
- The "improvements" won't be so big at first. It'll be a leg up, but it won't make them completely superhuman.
- They'll be a minority at first. Taking over the world will be tough.

And in the end game... We'll be taller, because who doesn't like tall guys? Our waist size will decrease. I guess it's a shame for chubby lovers, but they'll get over it. Looks... hard to say. Fewer warts and all, but tastes are still diverse in that area. We'll be smarter in some form, I hope, but it'll apply across the board, so I guess it won't make that big a difference. We'll still have dumbasses and smart guys.

I wish you guys would think your fears through a bit more.

You want something that describes the problem of GM people? Try Gundam Seed. It poses the question: if we design the post-human, will they consider us as people? Will we treat them like people? The transition may be painful, if not downright genocidal. Also, giant mechs.

Also, intelligence is hard to define, and will very probably prove an elusive target. What if there is a link, at the genetic level, between it and mental trouble (schizophrenia, autism, ADD, what have you). Imagine the choice: +50 IQ points, but the kid will have to take drugs every day his whole life to keep from getting psycho. What a choice for future parents is that? Or we as a society get rid of all mental diseases... but kill almost all our geniuses before they're born as a price.

But ultimately, unless there's a clear distinction between the "better" and "worse" option, I think those are choices - and responsibilities - best left to parents. We already let them get away with choosing all kind of stuff for their kids, even if we don't necessarily approve. Like, say, whether to home school their children or not. That too will have a great influence.

Last edited by Anh_Minh; 2012-07-04 at 16:12.
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Old 2012-07-04, 15:26   Link #987
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
We could accelerate it by spending more of our resources on it. How many more research programs could the US alone fund if all the money they spend on campaigning went to research? What's wrong with one Facebook page / candidate instead of all those trips and TV spots...

Or all we spend on sport. Not even actually participating, but just watching strangers perform.

Oh, well. I'm not actually opposed to use spending money of stupid shit. I'm just saying, it's a choice.
Reading this made me incredibly depressed. I hadn't thought about it before, but you're absolutely right. Do you want to know how much time I spent in the lab trying to get the cheapest reagents, bartering on the phone with sales representatives to increase my discount by 10%, even 5%? How many times did I determine that we could do something with some neat technology, only to discover that our institution didn't have access to it, and none of our collaborators at other institutions did, either; and then design an entire experiment in a more time-consuming way to try and answer a question with what we did have? Even one of those presidential campaigns could fund so many research labs, or accelerate so many others.

Thanks a lot, Anh_Minh. I'm probably going to be sulking about this all day. (Not least of all because yesterday I went antibody shopping, and spent close to an hour doing the same old...)

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the only thing that could advance our scientific research is that, a more civilised and advanced race would share its tech developments which would make it easier to create some fascinating things.
I feel like this thought is an insult to scientists everywhere, in every field. Those of us in the field work our butts off to make advancements that move humanity forward. We're constrained by funding and manpower; manpower is a limitation in part because of funding, and in part because nobody wants to go into science. They perceive it as too difficult (and lacking job security).

Look at where we are now. What is available to us today is like magic compared to even 40 years ago, and what they had 40 years ago was like magic compared to 80 years before that. We're advancing at a fast pace and, conspiracy theories aside, we (humanity) did this on our own. Take pride in that, and recognize the effort and sacrifices that were made and that are being made for this progress.

Some people may be content to sit back and pray that advancements will just happen miraculously. I say, use the talents you have, and bring it about yourself. That's science.

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about genetic engineering. it is a good thing if you use it for the proper purpose, that is curing diseases, eliminating harmful mutations and so on; about making the ideal human, i strongly object....we are not meant to act like gods and i think there are some things in nature that are better left to nature, even if i had the chance i'd never would "design my children" or something like this... by doing this we eliminate the "unique" quality of every single person. imagine a world where almost every men and women look almost the same.
There would be no need to make everyone look the same. Making everyone have the exact same set of genetics would be harmful to the species, actually.

I also wonder a bit about your acceptance of eliminating disease, but being against making an "ideal human." Wouldn't a disease-free human be ideal? Some would argue that disease, pain, and suffering is a part of the essential human experience. As to eliminating uniqueness:

Quote:
Originally Posted by csuree View Post
it is certain that in a world like this the unique traits would disappear....like composing music, art, and any inspirational, cultural, side of life would become dull. this reminds me of the movie "Equilibrium". it is a good example of how life would become if you mess with the natural flow of things.
Genetics may account for certain traits, but they do not determine who a person is or will be. Have you ever met identical twins before? Did they seem like they were the exact same person to you? Despite sharing identical genetics (ah, but not necessarily epigenetics...) the twins I've met were no more alike than any standard, non-twin brothers or sisters are.

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Originally Posted by csuree View Post
and another question raised....how would an "ideal human" feel if they were born into this world. they would feel superior at first which would then turn into depression because who wants to be friends with a know-it all, who is beautiful/handsome, and never fails in life?
then they would become lonely, depressed, then angry. thinking about it in detail if this would happen to me i would use my "gifts" to create a world that will accept me as i am, and "voila" we have a dictator, who could be invincible, and thus starting war.
You make a lot of assumptions here. Who's to say that the "ideal human" would develop feelings of superiority? Does every wealthy child who grows into a wealthy adult feel superior Some certainly do, but not all. Who's to say that "non-ideal humans" would shun the "ideal human"? Are professional athletes, beautiful models, incredibly smart scientists, and the overly wealthy unable to make friends with people who aren't like them?
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Old 2012-07-04, 15:46   Link #988
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Originally Posted by Paranoid Android View Post
Can't listen in because I am at work, but that seems like a conference between the press and the physicists? I can't stand when the media sends incompetent uneducated people to ask shallow questions and then distort everything scientists say. I hope this video recording isn't such =/

Higgs boson: discovery cost Stephen Hawking $100
http://www.thestar.com/news/world/ar...en-hawking-100
Kekeke
Maybe we should have a media licensing code where science journalists need to have a minimum degree in engineering to be granted a press pass to science conferences.

That or make them take a simple Physics questionnaire to get a press pass.
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Old 2012-07-04, 16:08   Link #989
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Originally Posted by csuree View Post
it is certain that in a world like this the unique traits would disappear....like composing music, art, and any inspirational, cultural, side of life would become dull. this reminds me of the movie "Equilibrium". it is a good example of how life would become if you mess with the natural flow of things.

and another question raised....how would an "ideal human" feel if they were born into this world. they would feel superior at first which would then turn into depression because who wants to be friends with a know-it all, who is beautiful/handsome, and never fails in life?
then they would become lonely, depressed, then angry. thinking about it in detail if this would happen to me i would use my "gifts" to create a world that will accept me as i am, and "voila" we have a dictator, who could be invincible, and thus starting war.

this might have went too far in details but i think i tried to realistically present the effects of such things.
As an artist I can tell you that there is no way art would disappear. Art evolves with culture and technology, not genes, no gene can dictate what one would be inspired by.

There are so many geniuses in music and yet none of them produce music that sounds the same. In fact, if people become more intelligent, they would become more creative and there would be a wider variety of art styles.

These genetically modified super art geniuses will come up with completely new mediums, genres, instruments, techniques, perspectives etc. that we normal humans can't think of.

These genetically modified geniuses may even cure cancer, aids, depression, aging, bring about cold fusion, wireless energy, interstellar travel etc. that we can't achieve now.

If they are going to be superior humans in intellect, how would we inferior humans be able to understand what they would think and feel. Even now, most people don't understand how 'normal' geniuses think.

There is no 'natural flow of things', just look at wolves, if humans didn't mess around with their genes with breeding, they would all just still be wolves. There wouldn't be dogs of thousands of breeds that we have now. After messing with dog genes for thousands of years, there is still no genetically ideal, perfect or superior dog. There are just more dogs with more specialised abilities.

God is not scientific and there is no god in science, modifying genes doesn't make anyone a god, if not humans would have been gods of dogs, cats and other pets for thousands of years.

Also @Paranoid Android: What is thestar.com? Seems like there is an extremely high level of ignorance on that site.
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Old 2012-07-04, 16:17   Link #990
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ohohoh i caused some stirr in the time-space continuum


for the record i like science very much.....at around 12 years old until high school i dreamt of becoming a scientist, who would discover a cheap sustainable energy-source which does not pollute....but entering high school this dream was shattered: everyone teased me my parents would say that your aspiration wouldn't bring money home.. how could you sustain a family with archeology, paleontology astronomy, geology, or nuclear physics.(these were my dreams to become).

another issue was that my parents are not rich so they couldn't afford to send me to a foreign country, where i could learn all these. and then came the cold shower. even though i was good in science at school (geography, chemistry, physics, biology and history) at math i was a ZERO. i hardly understood anything that went beyond the basics. even though i could get average grades about C+/- i wasn't good in math. which was almost a necessity for my aspirations.

returning to the topic. genetic engineering: removing diseases and mutations could end the suffering of many people don't forget that. i brings us closer to being ideal but what i was referring to was to enhance genes so parents would have children who were smart beautiful and talented in many aspects of life. this was i referring to when i said "making everyone the same". in a world where everyone is a genius no one is ugly and everyone is talented ther would be no real meaning of music arts and creativity. i think this kind of society would become dull and monotone.

sorry about the "insulting the scientists of our world" part.... i did not mean any harm to them i know they are making their utmost in their domain and i highly respect them. <<deep bow>>.
i was just saying that coming in contact with an advanced civilization would speed up even more our development to lengths beyond our imagining. i am proud that our scientists discovered so many things( even the atomic bomb earns my respect) it needed tremendous effort from anyone.

i never met identical twins before (i hope i will meet 2 pretty girls one day - but that is for another topic ), but i met fraternal twins and know that everyone is different.. even me and my brother are the complete opposite personalities.

an about the ideal human developing superiority complex: i think it is presumable that if a so called meta-human realizes that he is stronger smarter and more better than anyone lese in his/her group it is causality that he will feel this way. he/she wil need to go through a traumatic exp to not become one so he/she could decide that , won't use his/her abilities against people. but because our modern world is rotten to its core and around 50% of the population is thinkin only of advancing their own goals even if someone is suffering near them i think that these meta-human will also be like that. not all of them but most of them. and you know when a species becomes more advanced than the predecessor it will eliminate somehow the less evolved one. (example cro-magnon vs neanderthals, you know who survived. and in the animal kingdom it is the same).
because us humans are basically operatimg by natural laws (combined with our social ones) it is a fact that in time the more advanced humans will somehow shake off the less evolved ones.

about professional athletes, models and famous people....they are surrounded by a mountain of people but has any one of them said that they are 100% happy or that they have a full-filling life. i know from good sources that the most beautiful of women are 80% of the time the loneliest ones too.. why because "I or we" the less confident boys are too afraid to approach them because we think that they have this aura that we can not penetrate them.
i had the chance to befriend a very pretty girl and she told me these things and that the majority of the female friends of hers are mostly jealous of her and things like this....
so when i did get the insight of this i could feel that she was lonely as much as i was.(off topic - i couldn't hook up with her! <other thread about my problem> )

me with my simple life not being popular and such can say that i am 85-90% happy even though i have my issues and aspirations to fulfill in the future.

i say these things cuz i went through a lot in my life(mainly bad things) and i know how i think and there was a time when i was scared of myself when i realized how this changed me into a being that was not me....but with help from a good female friend i found my way back from the dark side.
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Old 2012-07-04, 16:59   Link #991
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for the record i like science very much.....at around 12 years old until high school i dreamt of becoming a scientist, who would discover a cheap sustainable energy-source which does not pollute....but entering high school this dream was shattered: everyone teased me my parents would say that your aspiration wouldn't bring money home.. how could you sustain a family with archeology, paleontology astronomy, geology, or nuclear physics.(these were my dreams to become).
It's not the first time I've heard a story like that, and it makes me very upset. There's more to life than making tons of money. Rich scientists are more the exception than the norm, but who cares? If your dream is to advance humanity and turn science fiction into reality, what does it matter whether you make $40K a year instead of $400K?

You don't need to be a genius to be in science, either. There are countless scientists who don't know their math, their statistics, and who don't even understand the core principles behind the techniques that they're using. I've worked with many of them, and while I strive to understand everything that I do to the fullest, I'm sure that some would group me into that category too. Still, these people work hard and they can still produce good data. Even if they're not the ones to come up with the breakthrough, their data can push someone else to make the necessary connections.

None of this is directed specifically at you, csuree. There is an anti-science sentiment in America at the moment, and I'm really remarking on my frustrations with that. Your comments just give me a good excuse to go off on it

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returning to the topic. genetic engineering: removing diseases and mutations could end the suffering of many people don't forget that. i brings us closer to being ideal but what i was referring to was to enhance genes so parents would have children who were smart beautiful and talented in many aspects of life. this was i referring to when i said "making everyone the same". in a world where everyone is a genius no one is ugly and everyone is talented ther would be no real meaning of music arts and creativity. i think this kind of society would become dull and monotone.
This discussion is actually more philosophical than scientific. What is "smart"? What is "beautiful"? There is no single definition. There are different types of intelligence, and there are different types of beauty. Even within those types, many are open to interpretation. For example, if we both scoured the internet and came up with a photo of the most beautiful woman we could find, I guarantee we would have chosen different people. More to the point, the woman you chose might not even be attractive to me in the slightest, and the woman I chose might not be attractive to you. Thus, you have nothing to fear regarding diversity!

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i never met identical twins before (i hope i will meet 2 pretty girls one day - but that is for another topic )


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an about the ideal human developing superiority complex: i think it is presumable that if a so called meta-human realizes that he is stronger smarter and more better than anyone lese in his/her group it is causality that he will feel this way. he/she wil need to go through a traumatic exp to not become one so he/she could decide that , won't use his/her abilities against people. but because our modern world is rotten to its core and around 50% of the population is thinkin only of advancing their own goals even if someone is suffering near them i think that these meta-human will also be like that. not all of them but most of them.
Are you superimposing your own thought process here, or just applying the perceived attitudes of people around you? What makes you so sure that a superiority complex would form? While many people are very self-centered, plenty can advance their own goals and still help others at the same time. It's not all-or-nothing.

As to using abilities against people, I ask you again to consider superstar athletes, the incredibly intelligent, and other very talented people. These people may not be engineered, but they have something that many other people don't have. It was random, but they're performing on a level that would probably match genetic engineering. Why aren't these people out to bring humanity to an end? Why are they using their talents for productive purposes?

There's no right answer to that question, actually. The point is that they're being productive, yet they're arguably superior to the majority of people in at least one way. Why wouldn't an engineered human be the same?

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and you know when a species becomes more advanced than the predecessor it will eliminate somehow the less evolved one. (example cro-magnon vs neanderthals, you know who survived. and in the animal kingdom it is the same).
You're referring to evolution and competition. Modern human society has pretty much removed those factors. It's not a concern.

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because us humans are basically operatimg by natural laws (combined with our social ones) it is a fact that in time the more advanced humans will somehow shake off the less evolved ones.
It's not a fact at all. We like to talk about evolution as being a process toward perfection, but it's really just a process that selects members who are best adapted to a current environment.

I'll tell you what the course of evolution chooses in our society: those who have the most children. In developed countries, the trend is that the people who are more affluent - those who have higher education, better-paying jobs, and so on - have less children. Those who are on the opposite end of the spectrum tend to have far more children. I'm going to guess that you would not call the poor and uneducated "evolved' compared with the wealthy and educated!

But again I'll say that evolution is really not a factor in modern society, thanks to medicine and civil engineering. Genetic defects and other disease conditions that would have been snuffed out very quickly in nature can survive and even reproduce within our society. We're no longer on an evolutionary course dictated by nature. Anyone saying otherwise is probably leading up to some racist ideology, and desires to claim superiority over another group of people.

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about professional athletes, models and famous people....they are surrounded by a mountain of people but has any one of them said that they are 100% happy or that they have a full-filling life. i know from good sources that the most beautiful of women are 80% of the time the loneliest ones too..
I didn't ask if they were happy. You initially made the statement that nobody would want to befriend someone who was superior to them in every way. Well, just because we don't have genetically engineered humans now doesn't mean that we're all equal. Some people are superior or inferior to others in certain aspects of life. Is it not true that a person who is inferior to one person in many aspects can still be their friend and get along with them?
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Old 2012-07-04, 17:00   Link #992
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Boffins pull off room-temp quantum computing with home-grown gems:

"Harvard tech boffins have come up with a way to create a qubit in a solid-state
system at room temperature that can store information for nearly two seconds, an
increase of around six orders of magnitude over the lifespan of earlier systems.

Problem solved. Except for one tiny issue: to do it, the researchers had to use
diamonds. (The gems were lab-grown, so they didn't have to use the world's finite
supply of naturally occurring diamonds – but still, building a computer out of
diamonds is surely not going to be easy, is it?)

"We have a qubit at room temperature that we can measure with very high
efficiency and fidelity. We can encode data in it, and we can store it for a relatively
long time," professor of physics Mikhail Lukin (pictured on the left) said in a canned
statement."

See:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/07...m_temperature/
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Old 2012-07-05, 10:58   Link #993
csuree
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ledgem View Post
It's not the first time I've heard a story like that, and it makes me very upset. There's more to life than making tons of money. Rich scientists are more the exception than the norm, but who cares? If your dream is to advance humanity and turn science fiction into reality, what does it matter whether you make $40K a year instead of $400K?

You don't need to be a genius to be in science, either. There are countless scientists who don't know their math, their statistics, and who don't even understand the core principles behind the techniques that they're using. I've worked with many of them, and while I strive to understand everything that I do to the fullest, I'm sure that some would group me into that category too. Still, these people work hard and they can still produce good data. Even if they're not the ones to come up with the breakthrough, their data can push someone else to make the necessary connections.

None of this is directed specifically at you, csuree. There is an anti-science sentiment in America at the moment, and I'm really remarking on my frustrations with that. Your comments just give me a good excuse to go off on it

i know it wasn't directed towards me and you are right currently the world is in "anti-science mode" and somehow this makes me sad too. i still know i'm young and i have in mind starting a new college next year to re-profile myself. i now have a bachelors degree in electrical engineering, i wrote my final paper about superconductors and particle accelerators. i extensively analized the superconducting magnets used in the LHC and its sensors (ATLAS, CMS, LHC-b) and found it very entertaining. this was a project that i loved to work on.
although i hate electrical engineering i'm working in the field as an engineer now but next year i would like to start automotive enginering cause that is something that i also like. and have a chance to get out from this sh!tty country.

for my aspiration that i wrote about earlier they are so exotic that i would have to travel to a different country to study in these fields and my current financial state does not allow it

(sorry for aspiring for money but i'm making like 4.5-5k $ per year - this is Romania the land of limited opportunities.) so i'm really in a pinch.
i would like to try and make a safe future for my family(when i will have one), but these salaries do not allow it.

so i will take the risk of learning automotive engineering and do my best to work for a good well-known company. and after that i would like to join a research group so i can make something of my childhood dreams come true, even if it will be small i will make it happen in time.

Ledgem i would also like to talk to you a bit more you sound like a good fella, i'd like to know in what field are you working right now, and things like these. it is a rare opportunity for me to talk to someone who does not look at me like this when i start talking about my interests and hobbies, so i'd like to make the most out of it.

thanks in advance.
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Old 2012-07-05, 11:33   Link #994
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America may still be hanging on to their beliefs and having some anti-science coming from creationists, it is not the same for the rest of the world.

While religion is still hanging around, there is no doubt that science is greater than ever before. There is no other time in history where people are more scientifically educated and had better scientific progress.
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Old 2012-07-05, 11:43   Link #995
JMvS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csuree View Post
i know it wasn't directed towards me and you are right currently the world is in "anti-science mode" and somehow this makes me sad too. i still know i'm young and i have in mind starting a new college next year to re-profile myself. i now have a bachelors degree in electrical engineering, i wrote my final paper about superconductors and particle accelerators. i extensively analized the superconducting magnets used in the LHC and its sensors (ATLAS, CMS, LHC-b) and found it very entertaining. this was a project that i loved to work on.
although i hate electrical engineering i'm working in the field as an engineer now but next year i would like to start automotive enginering cause that is something that i also like. and have a chance to get out from this sh!tty country.

for my aspiration that i wrote about earlier they are so exotic that i would have to travel to a different country to study in these fields and my current financial state does not allow it

(sorry for aspiring for money but i'm making like 4.5-5k $ per year - this is Romania the land of limited opportunities.) so i'm really in a pinch.
i would like to try and make a safe future for my family(when i will have one), but these salaries do not allow it.

so i will take the risk of learning automotive engineering and do my best to work for a good well-known company. and after that i would like to join a research group so i can make something of my childhood dreams come true, even if it will be small i will make it happen in time.

Ledgem i would also like to talk to you a bit more you sound like a good fella, i'd like to know in what field are you working right now, and things like these. it is a rare opportunity for me to talk to someone who does not look at me like this when i start talking about my interests and hobbies, so i'd like to make the most out of it.

thanks in advance.
If you happen to have some basics in French as many Romanians I know, I'd encourage you to look for opportunities in Switzerland.
Even without a mastery of French, I've known a few of your fellow countrymen doing internships in EPFL, our top engineering school.
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Old 2012-07-05, 15:05   Link #996
csuree
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMvS View Post
If you happen to have some basics in French as many Romanians I know, I'd encourage you to look for opportunities in Switzerland.
Even without a mastery of French, I've known a few of your fellow countrymen doing internships in EPFL, our top engineering school.
i'm sorry to disappoint you but even though i am a romanian citizen...i am of hungarian nationality, an i went to a hungarian language school in our hometown where we do not learn french. French is taught in the romanian language schools.
we learned a bit of german but that is too basic to be of any use.

i appreciate your help i'll look into it, but i won't get my hopes up. just yet... i still need to work if i want to go to another college. and the two of them are quite challenging. (XP: i worked when i was in college, in McDonald's and tried to keep my self in the top students list, but in the last year i lost my scholarship just barely....)

tonikaku (anyway) i will document myself on this one.

The main idea of my post was that i get a degree in automotive engineering here in my hometown, and then working in a foreign country...cause going to a foreign country learning and working there might be a little too much to handle..but we'll see about that.
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Old 2012-07-05, 18:15   Link #997
JMvS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csuree View Post
i'm sorry to disappoint you but even though i am a romanian citizen...i am of hungarian nationality, an i went to a hungarian language school in our hometown where we do not learn french. French is taught in the romanian language schools.
we learned a bit of german but that is too basic to be of any use.

i appreciate your help i'll look into it, but i won't get my hopes up. just yet... i still need to work if i want to go to another college. and the two of them are quite challenging. (XP: i worked when i was in college, in McDonald's and tried to keep my self in the top students list, but in the last year i lost my scholarship just barely....)

tonikaku (anyway) i will document myself on this one.

The main idea of my post was that i get a degree in automotive engineering here in my hometown, and then working in a foreign country...cause going to a foreign country learning and working there might be a little too much to handle..but we'll see about that.
I'd recommend you also look at ETHZ, the N°1 engineering school in the German speaking part of the country. Internship there would be as valuable.

Interns remunerations are significantly higher here than pretty much anywhere else, as are employees wages.
While academics and some large firms will use English, as our industry is dominated by small and medium sized companies, some proficiency in at least one of the main official languages, German or French, is often required.
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Old 2012-07-05, 19:37   Link #998
Ledgem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csuree View Post
Ledgem i would also like to talk to you a bit more you sound like a good fella, i'd like to know in what field are you working right now, and things like these. it is a rare opportunity for me to talk to someone who does not look at me like this when i start talking about my interests and hobbies, so i'd like to make the most out of it.

thanks in advance.
As of now I am still a student, studying to become a doctor. Before medical school, I was in graduate school working on immunology research. My end goal is to become a research physician (one who sees patients while still engaging in scientific research). As of now my ties to research are still stronger than are my ties to clinical medicine (social and business connections, knowledge abilities). It's a very long road. For the summer I am back in a research lab, teaching others about the joys of flow cytometry...

I would think that there are many things that you could do with a degree in electrical engineering - it's just a matter of finding the right opportunities. Since your English seems to be very good, have you considered any American universities? I've known engineers who received their Bachelor's degree in one field of engineering, and then received a PhD (or Master's) in another, less-related field of engineering. In my experience, many of the graduate students in science and engineering at American universities are from foreign countries (which saddens me, to see that so few Americans are even trying for these slots), so you don't have to worry about the programs not knowing how to process your application, or discriminating against you. If you go for a PhD in a field of science, you are paid while you take classes and perform your research; I don't know if this applies to engineering PhD's, as well, but it's worth looking into.
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Old 2012-07-05, 20:11   Link #999
mangamuscle
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Dark matter found!!!

Quote:
Now, after much searching and with a little luck, an international team of astrophysicists has discovered a dark matter filament connecting two clusters of galaxies about 2.7 billion light-years away.
Now the real question can be answered, is it tasty?
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Old 2012-07-09, 16:20   Link #1000
Vena
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Thought I'd throw this out there, just for correctness and because excitement seems to be skewing the details. The Higgs Boson has not been conclusively found. A boson seems to have been found in the 125-127 GeV range and it has, at this moment, unknown properties though the results seem consistent with what is expected with one of the several Higgs possibilities. It will be another several years of more tests, more data analysis, and more studies before we have conclusive data on whether this is indeed the Higgs or a coincidental impostor (which is still fine, as that would mean we found something cool and unexpected, and we'd have to see what its ramifications are/would be). The tests were to five sigma of statistical significance so you can bet your bottom dollar that at the very least *something* is there but what that is is still a bit of a toss up but favor the Higgs though the chances of other *things* is most certainly non-zero (though you have a better chance of winning the lottery while being finding a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow while getting impaled by a magical unicorn made of sheer asskickery ).

As for the ramifications... there are many for the Standard Model, good ones, but the Higgs isn't going to magically solve FTL limitations* and turning off *mass* to nullify gravity (which overlooks the fact that while turning off the Higgs mechanism for an elementary particle might be feasible, doing it for a quantum mechanical ensemble of holy-shit-10-to-the-32 particles, will probably be tricky...) isn't exactly going to be beneficial for airplanes (or much of anything).

*Think of the (supposed, likely unlikely) tachyon case. It has negative mass and thus must always move at a speed that is greater than the speed of light. If you magically gave it positive mass, it would have an issue in that its speed is still greater than c but its mass is now also greater than zero. All sorts of bad things happen, in particular because your momentum becomes larger than mc.

Whats more is that, as of current massless discoveries, anything massless must be traveling at the speed of light (negative mass tachyons MUST be above the speed of light to satisfy current physics) but the only forces that are applicable to such an object are refraction (force exerted ON a massless body) and radiation pressure (exerted BY a massless body) (and virtual particle exchange between elementary particles in the forms of certain bosons). Long story short: Not sure how you'd accelerate (let alone decelerate) since you're probably not going to be wanting to refract through matter (would be messy) to change your velocity. (Also, massless objects have predefined momentum (such as the photon, being massless, has a momentum but not one found through p = mv), so I have no idea what "turning off" mass would do to something composite (proton, people, planets, Persian kings). Would it instantly gain a predefined momentum (perhaps the momentum it had when it stopped having mass) or would it be forever stuck with zero momentum?... you may explode. )

Quote:
Originally Posted by mangamuscle View Post
Dark Matter is getting confusing for me. Every few months I see a new report purporting a discovery and then, latter, a new report baffling the pants off of everyone with a discovery that brings to question current dark matter understanding or previous dark matter results. (It was about a year ago when they had the report on two clusters which passed through each other without any of the expected dark matter effects (ie the center of mass was not where it should have been... at all).

Dark matter has been "found" for a while now, though. Wikipedia has an entire chart of observed support.
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