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Old 2012-07-03, 22:43   Link #461
Cosmic Eagle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimapan View Post
The ugly: Despair eveywhere. Already the first episode is dripping with despair. It seems this series is meant for psychopaths who enjoy seeing everyone die while fighting hopeless battles, and who get off on "mankind close to extinction"-schemes. Sick.

Overall: Except for the suits, quite a disappointment. Perhaps I'll watch some more just for the suits, but as I'm not one who gets off at seeing people die, it might be better if I don't.
Go troll elsewhere....

Besides, what makes someone who watches for pure sexual fanservice any better?

Wait...I don't understand your rationale?....same thing bothways.
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Old 2012-07-03, 22:50   Link #462
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Go troll elsewhere....
This isn't directed at you in particular but at everyone. Please keep in mind the number one rule: Do Not Feed The Trolls.

I do think people are entitled to their opinion, though trying to "call people out" who might enjoy the show was not a good idea. That said, it's getting a lot more attention than its worth because people won't let it go.
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Old 2012-07-03, 22:59   Link #463
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I wonder, whether the same audience that loved Madoka Magica for it's grim darkness might actually watch Muv-Luv, even if it is indeed, unashamedly grim, grim, grim and depressing from the first episode alone.
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Old 2012-07-03, 23:01   Link #464
grevierr
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In the Grim Darkness of Muv Luv, there is only NOM.
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Old 2012-07-03, 23:03   Link #465
novalysis
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Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
In the Grim Darkness of Muv Luv, there is only NOM.
I wish I could nominate this as a meme.
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Old 2012-07-03, 23:23   Link #466
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
I wonder, whether the same audience that loved Madoka Magica for it's grim darkness might actually watch Muv-Luv, even if it is indeed, unashamedly grim, grim, grim and depressing from the first episode alone.
The dawn is always brightest after the darkest of nights! Mwahahahahaha!
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Old 2012-07-03, 23:44   Link #467
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Actually, when one thinks about it, some of the issues make some sense on further reflection... provided that you are 1) Asian, 2) live in Asia and thus understand the Asian mindset.

Why give the TSFs to the girls? Because, as has been said in the beginning of the episode, all the boys are already on the frontlines. Note also that this is Imperial Japan - the Shogunate apparently never fell, or at least if World War 2 did happen in this timeline, postwar the Chrysanthemum Throne has regained its power.

Note also that the TSFs they're using are the Gekishin, which is the licensed Japanese production model of the F-4 Phantom, and the frontline fighter is the Type-82 Zuikaku, aka F-15 Eagle. They're not using the newest, best mecha - they're using old, practically useless, obselete units. Which actually makes sense, since there's no point in giving a high performance fighter to a trainee pilot.

At the same time though, it also explains why there are still tanks and self-propelled artillery: It's easier to train tank and artillery crews than pilots, who are notoriously expensive (a US Navy figure bandied about a decade ago claimed that one Naval Aviator would cost 2 million US Dollars for training alone).

The setting of Muv Luv is one of a crapsack world. Even more so than Gundam, people are born to die in this world. The whole point of the series, arguably, is not the skin tight practically transparent bodysuits with nothing worn underneath (which both teases the viewer with vapor wear, in addition to the human eye's habit of finding long, sleek shapes naturally pleasing) or the mecha, but about an entire race deciding that they will not go quietly into the night.

Sometimes, you have to make a last stand because it's your only option. There's nothing really inherently wrong with that. The vast majority of Medal of Honor citations have been for last stands.

While I don't like cute girls dying, and frankly I have low hopes for Yui's squad (a bunch of newbie pilots in obsolete TSFs with zero combat time and practically zero training - not even reaching the 200th hour*) - it'd be like sending a flight of nuggets up against two squadrons of F-22s - what does catch my interest in this story is humanity's last stand. And so I watch, because there's something visceral about the last stand that calls out to others.

Also, one problem with this prologue, set in 1998, is that the promo releases say that Yui will be transferred to Alaska in 2001. So no matter what, she's surviving this. That kinda removes some tension, IMO.

...if promo releases and summaries which state that the main meat of the story takes place in 2001 and feature the main character are considered spoilers, I'll find a hat and eat it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
In the Grim Darkness of Muv Luv, there is only NOM.
Huh. That's actually pretty catchy... and accurate. Wish I'd thought of that.

Edit: On an aside, who's voicing Yui's uncle? He sounds a lot like Taxi Nakata, but I can't be totally sure... also, the Admiral commanding the 6th fleet is wearing navy shades at night. Oh well, that's one way to show he's a hardass man with a will of iron, I suppose.
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Old 2012-07-03, 23:55   Link #468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
Presumably, the point of animating Total Eclipse is, among other things, to bring new paying customers to the franchise. From what I understand in this thread, it's reasonably self-contained, and therefore can be done in one series without having the watcher come in with a bunch of Muv-Luv franchise knowledge. If the show suddenly starts demanding people like me, who've never played the VNs, know things about what's going on in order to enjoy it...then it's not doing its job. So far, I don't feel lost or out of place, but it's one of the things that is going to determine the quality of the show for me going forward.
It helps that there are stories with similar backgrounds (alien invasion, humanity under siege), though they still need to work on showing instead of just telling.

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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Actually, when one thinks about it, some of the issues make some sense on further reflection... provided that you are 1) Asian, 2) live in Asia and thus understand the Asian mindset.
A bit nitpick, but you might want to narrow that down to a more specific region since I'm (south east) Asian, I live in Asia, and yet I have no idea how their anime mindset could be called Asian.
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Old 2012-07-03, 23:59   Link #469
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Just saw the first episodes and Iím new to the franchise too. Itís so far so good I guess. I like that the characters here act more logically and more down to earth than other mecha series like say, Aquarion Evol or Guilty Crown. The grim atmosphere is also a nice change after I get diabetes from watching Shining Hearts: Bread of Happiness and the colorful Gundam AGE .

Ok, Iím sold.
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Old 2012-07-04, 00:01   Link #470
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Where are the Innovators when you need them the most?
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Old 2012-07-04, 00:08   Link #471
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Originally Posted by Marcus H. View Post
Where are the Innovators when you need them the most?
Setsuna is the last of them and he's still playing cards with the aliens along with Marina .

Or, since the setting here is in 90s and 2000s, those Innovators don't exist yet .
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Old 2012-07-04, 00:18   Link #472
Silvance
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
I wish I could nominate this as a meme.
Don't we already have "Chomp"? I guess we could use another one for the TSFs.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Note also that this is Imperial Japan - the Shogunate apparently never fell, or at least if World War 2 did happen in this timeline, postwar the Chrysanthemum Throne has regained its power.

the Type-82 Zuikaku, aka F-15 Eagle.
Ah, yes. I was wondering what was missing, episode 1 failed to bring up that up.

Zuikaku is actually a modified F4J, and not F-15 Eagle. It'd be the Kagerou if that is the case...

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Where are the Innovators when you need them the most?
... I dunno? Somewhere cold?

Last edited by Silvance; 2012-07-04 at 00:44.
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Old 2012-07-04, 00:50   Link #473
Utsuro no Hako
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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
The dawn is always brightest after the darkest of nights! Mwahahahahaha!
No, sorry, that's just the glow of residual radiation which is going to cause your teeth to fall out and your bowels to bleed as you die a slow and painful death.

It is pretty, though.
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Old 2012-07-04, 00:58   Link #474
grevierr
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Originally Posted by Silvance View Post
Don't we already have "Chomp"? I guess we could use another one for the TSFs.
Definition of NOM http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/nom%2Bnom

It just... fits better...

Glad to see others like it. Used it a few times for laughs with those who did the VNs and WH40k.
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Old 2012-07-04, 01:20   Link #475
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by Silvance View Post
Ah, yes. I was wondering what was missing, episode 1 failed to bring up that up.

Zuikaku is actually a modified F4J, and not F-15 Eagle. It'd be the Kagerou if that is the case...
*facepalms* You're absolutely right. Argh, this is what happens when you grow old and gray-haired, and subsist on 4 hours of sleep daily!

This is due to Marika's awesome tight space suit and the bodysuits these girls are wearing. That's why.

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Originally Posted by Utsuro no Hako View Post
No, sorry, that's just the glow of residual radiation which is going to cause your teeth to fall out and your bowels to bleed as you die a slow and painful death.

It is pretty, though.
Well, the Mojave Desert's a pretty cool place to live [/Fallout]
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Old 2012-07-04, 01:38   Link #476
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Thanks to 0utf0xZer0, I just watched this. Pretty good first episode, and it's nice to see an anime show of this starkly serious sci-fi style for a change. Lovely character designs and personalities. Excellent setup episode for what looks to be an intense last stand.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shimapan View Post
Watched the first episode without prior knowledge of Muv-Luv.

The good: absolutely lovely body suits
Yeah, those body suits are very well-designed.


Quote:

The bad: Bland and uninspiring background. Aliens attack the earth for the n-th time, and the creators don't even try to come up with a reason, the aliens attack just because they're bored or something.
Well, it could just be basic annexation and cleaning out the planet of its local sapient lifeforms to make room for that annexation. Just straight-up "resource grab" writ large. It's pragmatic enough (totally unethical, of course, but that's often the point with aliens - they often don't have ethics anything like humans do). I'll go with this default position unless the aliens' motivation is ever clearly explained.


Quote:
We don't get to see the aliens either (not that it would make things better).
I honestly liked that. Adds a certain ominous tension to everything that makes it more of an "edge of your seat" experience. The imagination swirls with what these big, bad aliens might look like precisely because we haven't seen them yet.


Quote:
In short, it's just an poor excuse to have mecha fights.
What better excuse for mecha fights can you have than saving the entire human race? You do realize that no less an anime than Gurren Lagann was basically rooted on this very premise, right?

I'll admit it's not the most original concept around (kind of like a megalomanical bad guy that wants to take over the world) but at least it's really clear-cut, easy to accept, and quite serious (again, kind of like a megalomanical bad guy that wants to take over the world - there's a reason this is cliche; it's because it's very easy to get and its inherently dramatic).


Quote:
The ugly: Despair eveywhere. Already the first episode is dripping with despair. It seems this series is meant for psychopaths who enjoy seeing everyone die while fighting hopeless battles, and who get off on "mankind close to extinction"-schemes. Sick.
I certainly wouldn't want every show to be dripping in despair, but in a medium with loads of healing anime and "cute girls doing cute things" shows, it's nice to have something different like this anime every now and then.

Also, some of the fun of a show like this is the sci-fi "What if?" element to it. Kind of like the classic sci-fi film The Planet of the Apes. It can be interesting to see characters try to overcome serious (and nowhere in real life) threats to humanity as a whole.
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Old 2012-07-04, 01:48   Link #477
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At this point, they have not announced the Blu-Rays/DVDs, which are typically your best clue as to a show's length if it's not formally announced beforehand. But the fact that this is being produced by a new company, ixtl, that is basically an offshoot of ‚ge itself, supports the theory that they probably won't jump into a two-cour production right off the bat, even with Satelight's help. In addition, summer is one of the less-common times to launch two-cour shows, which would usually come in either Spring or Fall.

So I'm not aware of any firm proof. But, I think that one-cour is a safe assumption given the combination of factors at play.
Thanks for the info. So under the safe assumption that this'll have one cour, either the story will be very fast-paced, or not all of the novels will be covered. I kinda hope it's the former.

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I certainly wouldn't want every show to be dripping in despair, but in a medium with loads of healing anime and "cute girls doing cute things" shows, it's nice to have something different like this anime every now and then.
The irony behind this statement is hilarious, considering the general mood and subject matter of of Muv-Luv Extra, which is many people's first impression of Muv-Luv.
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Old 2012-07-04, 02:54   Link #478
novalysis
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Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
Thanks for the info. So under the safe assumption that this'll have one cour, either the story will be very fast-paced, or not all of the novels will be covered. I kinda hope it's the former.



The irony behind this statement is hilarious, considering the general mood and subject matter of of Muv-Luv Extra, which is many people's first impression of Muv-Luv.
Doesn't that irony extends to every anime viewer who has not read Muv-Luv, or indeed, even heard of the entire franchise. which I take it is the majority of the viewerbase right now? For viewers like me, Total Eclipse is our first exposure to the series.

That being said, after reading up a little of the back-story, I dare say being sentenced to the world of Muv-Luv Alternative for a few years might be one of the most amusing, if also incredibly sadistic possible punishments haters of the Generic Harem Protagonist Syndrome might want to recommend for bland male leads. Should this anime prove popular enough. there's a possibility of fanfiction threads being made dedicated to such Crossover projects.

Also, I think if Muv-Luv Extra was animated, instead of a Sidestory of a Sequel to an AU of a Generic Harem Visual Novel, it'll be getting exactly the same reaction as Medaka Box got last season, and Muv-Luv fans moaning that with the BD pre-orders it's getting, we'd never get to watch the really good meat of the Franchise. Sounds familiar? That's what manga readers said about Medaka Box recently, TGWOK just awhile further back, and I imagine Negima during it's disastrous double adaptation unfaithfulness.

From what I've been reading, both here, and through quick googling, it seems that the main problem with an anime adaptation of Muv-Luv is that it shares the same issue with some genre shifting manga stories with botched adaptations, of which Negima was one particularly bad offender, among several. That of genre shift. And when the pre-genre shift material could easily consume an entire Cour (if not more), that's a real killer. Madoka Magica, for comparison took three episodes for a genre shift, and before that, it was getting rained hard for being boring and generic. I think the main lesson is that if you want to adapt such stories with genre shifts after considerable pre-genre shift material, it might be best to start at a spot long after the genre shift as a first anime project, if you want to test the waters. I actually applaud the decision makers behind this anime for starting In Media Res, so to speak.

Should Eclipse sell well enough, I think we might see a full adaptation of the entire Muv-Luv Universe, since well, Eclipse is a Side Story after all. But of course, it's Mecha, and Mecha normally sells quite well. So, I imagine it's also in part a commercial decision. Start with Extra, and Muv-Luv will bomb - this is a given, since there's no other anime adaptation whose source material leapt from Lightheated to Dark has ever succeeded commercially, unless the genre shift was executed within three episodes.

My theory is that they are testing the waters here, and if Eclipse sells well, they'd move on to adapting the entire VN series, from Extra to Unlimited to Alternative in Anime form, or if they are that creative, merging Extra as Counter-point Flashbacks to Unlimited and Alternative. Since Eclipse already informs audiences of what to expect, a Muv Luv Extra adaptation might be a rarity- an actual Pre-genre shift story that's regarded as a masterful counterpoint to the rest of the Muv Luv franchise, which every other story with big genre shifts have tried to do (leap from Harem/Comedy/Cutsie Moe Slice of Life to something more serious), and has mostly failed, with the exception of Madoka (from Cutsie Moe Generic Mahou Shoujo 12359 to the Evangelion of Magical Girls), though even more experienced viewers of anime might be able to point some other examples.

Finally, I wish for Total Eclipse and the Muv Luv of Alternative to be to Muv Luv Extra what the Nanoha Franchise was to Triangle Hearts, beyond the VN Medium alone. Since CR is licensing it, I imagine that Muv Luv Eclipse is going to the first time that most of the English Speaking audience is going to be exposed to this franchise.

Last edited by novalysis; 2012-07-04 at 03:29.
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Old 2012-07-04, 03:28   Link #479
FRS
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Having watched the 1st episode i found the setting interesting and i liked the mecha design.

It will certainly end in a downer, but that doesnt bother me.
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Old 2012-07-04, 06:00   Link #480
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I too am totally unfamiliar with the franchise. I don't think the first episode was particularly dark or tragic. It could easily end up that way, but was nothing like Ga-Rei Zero for example.

My first experience with genre shifting anime was Mai-Hime. That series didn't shift until the second season, although there were definite hints in the first.
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