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Old 2012-07-09, 15:54   Link #621
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
btw this is a adapted from a vn game right? its odd because I'm not familiar with the game so I can't be sure but their is no male lead? isn't it usually that you control the mc lead? is the girl the lead or something?
Total Eclipse is a novel series that was spun-off from the game. But, the first two episodes of the anime were basically a prologue, so you should expect the real story to begin in the next episode. (And, as you might expect, new characters will be introduced.) So the answers to your questions are coming.

(Though I'm still not sure what this fixation on having a male lead is, but that's a conversation we had in another thread recently... )
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Old 2012-07-09, 16:15   Link #622
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
(Though I'm still not sure what this fixation on having a male lead is, but that's a conversation we had in another thread recently... )
But its a VN game. You usually control the MC (lead guy) as your character though I'm not familiar with otome game because I haven't played it yet. You control the girl in that game right while this is a what a galgame or erogame which you control the guy.

I think its rather odd to not have a character you control in a game or a rather a perspective on how you see things with because usually you read the lines from a third party view or as the character himself.
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Old 2012-07-09, 17:00   Link #623
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Originally Posted by grevierr View Post
Just got my Koto Takemikazuchi Yui Delux ver... With Tank BETA! I opened it up and got a code 991!

Spoiler for pic:
WHOA~ Nice pose with the 00R. Not to mention, it's in Storm Vanguard load out. <3
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I don't think that it is the weapon, but the TSF itself, with better reaction time, resistance etc. What the girls had been handling was the red shirt mech. It's like in eve online, where the difference between T1 and T2 ships can be quite big.
Correct. The Takemikazuchi is vastly more maneuverable, with high-performance sensors, better reaction time, and thrust output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by grylsyjaeger View Post
That Takemikazuchi *censored*
Not safe so I made my reply in the game thread instead.


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Originally Posted by MrTerrorist View Post
That was brutal. Except for Yui, all of her squadmates died. I kinda wish to see those F-14s TSF since i wonder how their world's F-14 fare against our own.
I know, right? I wanted to see the Tomcats in action too. ;_;

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Originally Posted by GenjiChan View Post
A question about the Takemikazuchi. Its the blue mecha that appeared that weilds a sword right?
Yes. That's the sword of the east, Takemikazuchi. As for the pilot, see above.


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Originally Posted by Kunagisa View Post
Too bad the series is not really discussed much here compare to some other places so I prob won't be following this thread much, but at least the pre-orders are looking pretty darn good.
Let me know if you found a good site because I will go there too.

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Originally Posted by Kyral View Post
I was a little dissapointed how they portrayed the Laser Class in this episode.

This typical sci-fi piu piu firing was strange. In the novel they fire a constant beam that instantly hits it's target, but TSF armor holds about 1-2 seconds befor the machine explodes, so pilots have a little time to get the hell out of the BETAs field of view.
Ah, yes. One of the things I was disappointed with in the anime. The poor portrayal of the lasers was rather horrendous.


Guys, in case you all missed it, the Japanese imperial army mostly used F-4J Gekishin and Type-82 Zuikaku during the siege of kyoto. Both are first generation machines which are REALLY outdated especially the first one. They're slow, clunky, and not really effective against the BETA once they're very close unless the pilot is VERY skilled like the eastern germans. The Zuikaku is a bit better than the F4 though but that doesn't change it's a first generation TSF. So why bother using it? The imperial army already made so much of them and the unit is easy to maintain. Oh, and it takes time for the Eishi to adjust to new machines, and that costs money as well. I'm not sure how many Type-94s there are at this time, but we only saw one in episode 2 and that was the Type-94-1C.

I'm actually fascinated to see how bad the F-4 is. Some guys could've dodged in time, but the F-4 was so slow. It makes me think if the results would've been the same if they had better units instead of that walking coffin... Probably they could've lived longer... There was also a Gekishin who parried a Grappler's attack and countered by shooting the thing in point-blank range. The Eishi must have been really skilled to do it with an outdated unit.

What's the problem with stationary turrets? It's the stationary part. Why not use artillery fire? Well, that depends how many laser class there are. Why not use long range bombardment or nuclear warheads? Again, say hi to Lux-chan and Magnus Lux-kun.

If only we had a subform... A thread dedicated for tactics, technologies, and military protocols for each country would definitely benefit the secondaries in this thread.

Last edited by Silvance; 2012-07-09 at 22:19. Reason: edited. Got carried away. I apologize. m(_ _)m
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Old 2012-07-09, 17:07   Link #624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvance View Post
Yes. That's the sword of the east, Takemikazuchi. As for the pilot, see above.
So we have are just suspicions?
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Old 2012-07-09, 17:12   Link #625
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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
First of all, it was established in the first episode that the mechs should fly as low as possible to the ground, to avoid Laser Class, but they only decide to do so after several of them get blown up. Even if the Lasers "widened their arc" or whatever, you'd think they would anticipate something like that, and fly as low as possible from the get-go.
they can't anticipate the change of the arc until at least a few lasers are fired, in which case it's not anticipating but reacting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
Next, the Instructor goes all hero and crap, "holding them off" when they apparently lacked any form of long-range BETA in the group. It seemed completely unnecessary for him to stay behind (standing completely still no less) and get chopped to pieces. Why not, um... Fly away? You know, with jets and stuff?
someone had to distract the betas to give the other people a chance to run away, running along the girls was nto an option as all of them would have gotten killed instead of just one person.


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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
Next comes the derpy idiots who decided it was a fine idea to have a stare-down contest with a stampede of Destroyer Class BETA. Sure, some of them jumped away, but only after they WERE RIGHT ON THEM. Why not fly, hm? Or at least, fly away when they got too close. Instead they decide to basically stand there and let them crush them, for some odd reason.
they can't fly because lasers.

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Originally Posted by Asuras View Post
Overall this episode was filled with bad decisions, and I feel like they extended the "Too Dumb to Live" trope to just about everyone. I still like the premise and the series, nevertheless.
I used to frequen gantz forums, where a lot fo people would critique the combatants tactics, that was fun and this brings bakc memories.
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Old 2012-07-09, 17:54   Link #626
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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
But its a VN game. You usually control the MC (lead guy) as your character though I'm not familiar with otome game because I haven't played it yet. You control the girl in that game right while this is a what a galgame or erogame which you control the guy.

I think its rather odd to not have a character you control in a game or a rather a perspective on how you see things with because usually you read the lines from a third party view or as the character himself.
But that's what I was saying: it isn't a game. It's a series of novels.

And besides that, the anime doesn't necessarily have to be narrated in a protagonist's first-person perspective in order to make sense either. There are lots of other ways to narrate the story here (as seen in the first two episodes).
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Old 2012-07-09, 18:12   Link #627
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
But that's what I was saying: it isn't a game. It's a series of novels.

And besides that, the anime doesn't necessarily have to be narrated in a protagonist's first-person perspective in order to make sense either. There are lots of other ways to narrate the story here (as seen in the first two episodes).
relentlessflame when will it be time for this thread to become part of a sub-forum for the Muv-Luv series?
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Old 2012-07-09, 18:25   Link #628
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Originally Posted by Xezexal View Post
relentlessflame when will it be time for this thread to become part of a sub-forum for the Muv-Luv series?
We will see how it goes. Some information about how we decide about sub-forums is available here. At this time, we are observing the threads to determine where sub-forums would be most useful. For now, I'd just ask that people try to keep all novel and game related information out of this thread. Some of the posts above make me a bit uncomfortable because there is a lot more information there than they talked about in the anime yet. If we need to create a special thread (in the game section? novel section?) to get some of this information into it's own topic and out of the anime thread, I'd be potentially okay with that. But if it's just going to be that game players and novel readers can't keep their mouths shut about spoilers in this thread... well that's not a good sub-forum justification.
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Old 2012-07-09, 18:51   Link #629
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Besides all of the stationary turrets and PEW PEW, there was another part of episode 2 which challenged my suspension of disbelief.

So Yui is surrounded by a lot of Soldier-class and Tank-class BETA, both types of which can easily detect the presence of humans, but they take several minutes before they start attacking her. Hell, it's almost like they don't notice her until the other girl is chewed up. These are freaking anti-infantry and anti-personnel BETA, they aren't zombies.

Also, why didn't Yui or glasses girl use their armored exoskeletons after evacuating their TSFs? Those things are useful, and I was hoping to see them finally get put to use, but the writers wasted that opportunity.

Images
exoskeleton explanation
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
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Last edited by Tempester; 2012-07-09 at 19:03.
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Old 2012-07-09, 18:58   Link #630
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It's a series with alien bugs, mecha, and skin-tight pilot suits, and you're worried about suspension of disbelief?

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Old 2012-07-09, 19:05   Link #631
Asuras
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maximilianjenus View Post
they can't anticipate the change of the arc until at least a few lasers are fired, in which case it's not anticipating but reacting.





someone had to distract the betas to give the other people a chance to run away, running along the girls was nto an option as all of them would have gotten killed instead of just one person.




they can't fly because lasers.



I used to frequen gantz forums, where a lot fo people would critique the combatants tactics, that was fun and this brings bakc memories.
The fact that they can change their arc would have you assuming they would at any time, right? >.>

Okay I get that one. I must've missed the part where he said he was holding them off for normal people to get away too.

But they sure can fly right over them, right? The lasers can't get them there.
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Old 2012-07-09, 19:32   Link #632
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
It's a series with alien bugs, mecha, and skin-tight pilot suits, and you're worried about suspension of disbelief?

Muv-Luv is not a paragon of realism and hard science in the slightest, but it did a good job of creating a world with a set of rules, technology, and aliens that is impressively consistent.

The existence and powers of the BETA may not be biologically possible, but it's an established in-universe fact that Soldier-class and Tank-class BETA will go after humans if they get the chance. For what seemed to be a hundred of them to just stand around doing nothing for a few minutes in the presence of an unprotected human is strange.

The soldiers in Muv-Luv are trained, just like any soldier, to make the best out of their situation and maximize their chance of survival when in a pinch. Equipping your powered exoskeleton before evacuating your TSF not only follows that code, it is basic knowledge that even cadets know about, and Yui had already graduated from being a cadet at the time.
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Old 2012-07-09, 19:33   Link #633
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
It's a series with alien bugs, mecha, and skin-tight pilot suits, and you're worried about suspension of disbelief?

Tempester has a valid point. Why not use resources that's available to you when it seems like the situation requires it?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
Besides all of the stationary turrets and PEW PEW, there was another part of episode 2 which challenged my suspension of disbelief.

So Yui is surrounded by a lot of Soldier-class and Tank-class BETA, both types of which can easily detect the presence of humans, but they take several minutes before they start attacking her. Hell, it's almost like they don't notice her until the other girl is chewed up. These are freaking anti-infantry and anti-personnel BETA, they aren't zombies.

Also, why didn't Yui or glasses girl use their armored exoskeletons after evacuating their TSFs? Those things are useful, and I was hoping to see them finally get put to use, but the writers wasted that opportunity.

Images
exoskeleton explanation
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
Do you remember the greatest weakness of the exoskeleton?

"Moving through spaces smaller than one meter, such as trenches, for long periods of time. Even worse are when stealth advances are required"


Well if that is not enough, here's a horribly thought out convenient excuse, let's consider that Izumi may have been out cold when she was dragged out of her cockpit, thus not having the chance to use the exoskeleton in time. For Yui... this one is hard... Technical difficulties perhaps or just forgot that simple fact or did not pay attention much into her lectures.

As for the BETA, I don't understand either why the soldier class ignored her and just focused on eating their long desired meal for the day. The tank class? Dunno, maybe they wanted to finish the appetizer before going for the main dish? Poorly thought out scene to be honest when you consider the traits of those BETA strains.

I'm not sure if Kouki is to blame since he doesn't dictate what to do in the anime. Ishigaki is the one who makes the final call. haha. It'd be funny if he forgot about those things.

Last edited by Silvance; 2012-07-09 at 19:49.
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Old 2012-07-09, 19:40   Link #634
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Do you remember the greatest weakness of the exoskeleton?

"Moving through spaces smaller than one meter, such as trenches, for long periods of time. Even worse are when stealth advances are required"
Ah, thanks for the tip.

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Originally Posted by Silvance View Post
Well if that is not enough, here's a horribly thought out convenient excuse, let's consider that Izumi may have been out cold when she was dragged out of her cockpit, thus not having the chance to use the exoskeleton in time.
Well, that could work, but I doubt the writers had that in mind considering what Yui did.
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Old 2012-07-09, 19:43   Link #635
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Ah, thanks for the tip.

Well, that could work, but I doubt the writers had that in mind considering what Yui did.
No problem. That was a very good question that you raised. D:

Well, if the soldier class and tank class attacked her immediately, the Takemikazuchi won't be on time to save her? Maybe that's what they had in mind? lol.
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Old 2012-07-09, 19:49   Link #636
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If only we had a subform... A thread dedicated for tactics, technologies, and military protocols for each country would definitely benefit the secondaries in this thread.
Secondaries? Have you been lurking on /m/ too? O.o
In any case, the folks from /m/ are also criticizing certain "lapses in judgment" and their inability to use military tech available at that time. It might awaken the military geek in the Muv-Luv fan, and can also explain how those overpowered BETAs work.
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Old 2012-07-09, 19:54   Link #637
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Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
Besides all of the stationary turrets and PEW PEW, there was another part of episode 2 which challenged my suspension of disbelief.

So Yui is surrounded by a lot of Soldier-class and Tank-class BETA, both types of which can easily detect the presence of humans, but they take several minutes before they start attacking her. Hell, it's almost like they don't notice her until the other girl is chewed up. These are freaking anti-infantry and anti-personnel BETA, they aren't zombies.

Also, why didn't Yui or glasses girl use their armored exoskeletons after evacuating their TSFs? Those things are useful, and I was hoping to see them finally get put to use, but the writers wasted that opportunity.

Images
exoskeleton explanation
Sorry; dynamic content not loaded. Reload?
I was hoping for some drama with Yui so overcome with fear that she's torn between whether to fire and thus draw attention to herself or run. Agree that the portrayal of BETA has been fairly dumb and zombie-like, which adds to the sense that the TSFs being rather bad (especially with no fitting tactics displayed)

I also hope this series explores more aspects of the world setting and it's conflicts with characters - such as the clear 'caste' system, and its usefulness/influence in the war. I can detect a theme of honour code/sacrifice in this already, something I presume is deep in the Japanese psyche. One of the primary reason Japan collapsed through the latter half of the WW2 was due to their samurai code - and the resultant attrition to personnel vs the outcome oriented planning of their allied counterpart, where squadron based tactics quickly covered up initial shortcomings.
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Old 2012-07-09, 19:57   Link #638
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Do you think anyone is willing to localize Total Eclipse in the states? and yes I did want to see those 14s in action.
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Old 2012-07-09, 20:32   Link #639
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I watched the second episode and damn they all got owned.

They really need some better weapons.
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Old 2012-07-09, 23:47   Link #640
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Originally Posted by Silvance View Post
Tempester has a valid point. Why not use resources that's available to you when it seems like the situation requires it?

Do you remember the greatest weakness of the exoskeleton?

"Moving through spaces smaller than one meter, such as trenches, for long periods of time. Even worse are when stealth advances are required"


Well if that is not enough, here's a horribly thought out convenient excuse, let's consider that Izumi may have been out cold when she was dragged out of her cockpit, thus not having the chance to use the exoskeleton in time. For Yui... this one is hard... Technical difficulties perhaps or just forgot that simple fact or did not pay attention much into her lectures.
I read somewhere from the producer's twitter that the SMG and exoskeleton was cut for production reasons. I think your logic fits though. It might also be because the Exo was damaged in the impact. Just to add to the info, the Exo is also vulnerable to terrains with pits or shafts that the Exo can fall into and become trapped. The survival time with the exo is 8.3, and without is 14. So in an urban enviro, its best for just the armored suit alone.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Silvance View Post
Well, if the soldier class and tank class attacked her immediately, the Takemikazuchi won't be on time to save her? Maybe that's what they had in mind? lol.

As for the BETA, I don't understand either why the soldier class ignored her and just focused on eating their long desired meal for the day. The tank class? Dunno, maybe they wanted to finish the appetizer before going for the main dish? Poorly thought out scene to be honest when you consider the traits of those BETA strains.

I'm not sure if Kouki is to blame since he doesn't dictate what to do in the anime. Ishigaki is the one who makes the final call. haha. It'd be funny if he forgot about those things.
I'm going to go out on a limb to try and explain, let me know if it makes sense.

I think it was said somewhere that BETA don't see or hear, except for some soldier class. So screaming or wearing bright colors don't matter to them. So:

Firstly, how does the tank class sense its prey? Going by the sensor props on the head, and assuming its like the antenna on most insects and/or sense props like sharks. they might hunt either by bioelectricity and/or pheromone scent. So it could be that they were attracted by the blood and fear sense coming from the injured pilot, rather than one that is still whole.

Secondly, threat level. While Yui did shot them and made alot of noise, since she has not shown a higher level of threat and is not running away, she is at the same level as an unmoving pilot. So with above, the priority level would be to finish the more tasty one, then look for the other.

Then again, it might be due to production needs, as mentioned above...

Last edited by grevierr; 2012-07-10 at 00:56.
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