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Old 2012-07-16, 10:05   Link #921
Destined_Fate
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I see, so that explains why he calls her a Japanese Doll.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
Episode 3 was unimpressive. The animation seems to be getting even worse, it's laughably bad now. And Tarisa gives a horrible first impression. That bratty, childish personality doesn't fit the setting at all. At least Chizuru and Kei from the VNs acted a bit like soldiers despite having several personality problems. Tarisa acts like she started cadet training yesterday.

And why are the pilots able to talk to their opponents during mock battles? I remember one aspect about the mock battles in the VNs, and it was that the participants couldn't talk to their opponents. Makes sense, because it's not like the BETA will have a casual chat with you before they ambush you. But in this episode, everyone was casually throwing jokes and jabs at their opponents in the middle of fighting! Seriously, what's with that banter? It was nice to see a mock battle animated but it was ruined by all that unfunny banter.
Tarisa seems to have a superiority complex and since she's small.... Yeah. Besides, I'm sure she has a tragic past or some reason for why she acts the way she does. Considering she's a citizen of a dead government, thanks to the BETA, she didn't have a nomal childhood and since she managed to survive the 8 minutes of death and become a skilled pilot she must have a lot of pressure placed on her to perform.

Also, since she's a skilled pilot she must have went through a lot of comrades that have died over the years so she could easily be going with "Can't rely on anyone and gotta do eveything myself" mentality. Which she has the skills to do so since she's still alive and a skilled pilot. VG even tells Tarisa that she needs to learn to stop relying on just herself and to work with her teammates.

As for the talking, I'm suere that's an anime thing. It would be borng just having them brood and talk to just themselves in the battle. Besides, this is an introduction episode for a lot of characters, having them talk helped give viewers an idea who they are.
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Old 2012-07-16, 10:35   Link #922
grevierr
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Its just dramatic portraying of what the public/directors think fighter jocks act like in a dog-fight aka Top Gun.
IRL, pilots would afflict a calm and low tone of voice, like they are ordering a beer on a nice day at the beach, even when they are down one engine and have 50 cal holes in their cockpit.

"54 Charlie to control, reporting 10 on fuel, 1 engine still on, and looking out the left window I see a lovely view of sky where my wing tip used to be. I am RTB, suggest having a first aid kit on stand by. Don't mind the whistling, thats just air coming through the open window."

And of course having a calm ops controller helps keeps the pilot calm in troubling situations too. No one likes hearing "oh shit" when they are trying to land a burning plane. It lets them down.
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Old 2012-07-16, 10:50   Link #923
kari-no-sugata
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Originally Posted by serenade_beta View Post
"You Japanese Doll~!" <--Mm... A bit hard to tell whether you're complimenting or otherwise, if you just read it as a line instead of context
Yeah, I wondered about this too...

I dont know much about this series beyond what I've read here, but I presume the US is a democracy still in this setting? And Japan in this setting is fully imperial (ie zero democracy) right? Makes me wonder what happened in WW2 (assuming it occurred). From what others have said here, there's a lot of political manoeuvrings going on within the imperial families - I guess outsiders would find that tiresome and self-destructive. Maybe "Top Gun" (and most Americans) view the Japanese people in a similar way to how the Japanese people were viewed during WW2 - crazy fanatically devoted to the emperor etc.

Probably doesn't help that about the first words out of Yui's mouth to him bring up "imperial Japan" (even though this international project is supposed to be a world-wide effort to save mankind)

So maybe him calling her a "Japanese Robot" would be closer to the implication here?

Given how frozen her expression is around him, maybe he should start calling her "yuki-onna" instead though?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
At 18.25 of ep.3, that's only one time Yui had reaction to Toya combat.....Is that the point where she thought he disappointed her??

Did she think something like...in real combat with BETA, if he fly that high, he will get shot by laser-class??? or it was something else???
Toya? I think you mean Yuuya...

After you see her reaction the scene cuts to a graph. Can't read it all but it says "height limit" at least. He clearly flew higher than his opponent.

At a guess: Yuuya sees the height limit as "safe until you reach that height" while Yui probably sees it as "certain death above this line, high risk just below".

Going by the map showing areas the BETA have taken over, Alaska's not that far from the front lines, so I guess Yuuya will get some real battle experience soon...
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Old 2012-07-16, 11:45   Link #924
Miraluka
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According to the tweets by a staff of game developer age, the director of Muv-Luv Alternative: Total Eclipse was changed from Inagaki Takayuki to Ando Masaomi (the episode director of "Fairy Tail") because the production staff had put so much resources onto the first two episodes and Inagaki had got overloaded with tasks. The staff said the studio has been in a mess as you might notice from the quality of the third episode. Although the credit for the director was changed from the episode 3, Ando took over Inagaki's job from episode 10. Inagaki is now concentrating on making the scripts and the storyboards.
Source: http://twilog.org/maf2koinu

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Originally Posted by Destined_Fate View Post
Yeah... Death Flags are pretty high. I'm expecting that VG guy to die. Maybe saving the young tomboy girl though I don't think she'll survive either. Oh, and Yuuya's friend. That guy is screaming "Kill me" just so Yuuya has a dead friend to deal with.
Well those are just the typical characters that gets killed trough the series . So people don't expect much from said characters to begin with, but at the same time that is also a problem because some will feel like wasting time on "pointless deathflag characters" and their enjoyment decreases .
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Old 2012-07-16, 13:00   Link #925
Triple_R
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That's quite a massive tonal shift between the first two episodes and this third one.

It's like going from watching some very bleak/gory sci-fi/horror/action-thriller to watching, well, Top Gun.


Top Gun seems like a pretty solid male lead. I have no major issues with him. Most of the cast have a breezy "devil-may-care" style to them which is somewhat amusing.

Tarisa initially annoyed the heck out of me, but then she actually entered "so bad it's good" territory for me. In other words, she's such an insanely over-the-top screaming tsundere that it's like she's an intentional parody of the character type itself.

In spite of what I wrote earlier about tonal shift, I can see why they started with Yui in her early days for the first two episodes. If Episode 3 was the first episode of Muv-Luv Alternative: TE, Yui would have left a pretty bad first impression on me. But by getting to see what she was like as a teenager, and by getting to see the horrors she lived through, it makes me much more instantly forgiving of her current bad attitude.


I didn't like Episode 3 as much as the first two, but it was a decently fun watch anyway.
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Old 2012-07-16, 13:08   Link #926
Tk3997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
Episode 3 was unimpressive. The animation seems to be getting even worse, it's laughably bad now.
Didn't notice much of a difference myself, had a few "quality" scenes (the blobs passing off as Eagles come to mind), but so did the others. I thought the part that mattered, the mech fight, was animated well enough to be interesting to watch which for me is all that really matters.

Quote:
And Tarisa gives a horrible first impression. That bratty, childish personality doesn't fit the setting at all. At least Chizuru and Kei from the VNs acted a bit like soldiers despite having several personality problems. Tarisa acts like she started cadet training yesterday.
I sometimes rather wonder what exactly people think being a soldier implies. What it doesn’t imply is brainwashing or the magical removal of sometimes objectionable personality traits. Service members can in fact be unpleasant dicks and often particularly so when others are messing with “their turf”. If you’ve read any military history you’ll find examples of petty squabbles that will boggle the mind. I’ve also heard it compared to high school if not worse with cliques, hazing, and ass kissing galore.

It's actually arguably most common in war time as if an asshole does his job well... Well people are inclined to not really care if he's an asshole. So yeah maybe it ain't endearing, but acting like it's unrealistic to the setting or the result of some deep seated trauma is a bit daft IMO. News flash as in the civvie world some people in the military are just irritable and obstinate.

Quote:
And why are the pilots able to talk to their opponents during mock battles? I remember one aspect about the mock battles in the VNs, and it was that the participants couldn't talk to their opponents. Makes sense, because it's not like the BETA will have a casual chat with you before they ambush you. But in this episode, everyone was casually throwing jokes and jabs at their opponents in the middle of fighting! Seriously, what's with that banter? It was nice to see a mock battle animated but it was ruined by all that unfunny banter.
This is nitpicky as hell, and coming from me that's says something! First off that "no talking" thing could easily just be totally up to a given units discretion. Second from an out of universe perspective five minutes of characters grunting to themselves isn't exactly engaging, and having combatants speaking to each other is just a staple of fiction. This also pretty obviously isn't any sort of super serious war game so much as routine skill maintenance and perhaps a bit of hazing on the new guy.

Seriously if this of all things "ruined" the fight for you I seriously don't know if this is the right genre for you given that stuff like this is such a staple.

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Originally Posted by tsunade666 View Post
^ he hasn't fought BETA yet? then he hasn't seen the battle field yet? and inexperienced pilot, that he is.
Not to short change combat, but... combat isn't everything by a long shot. Consider a newly graduated Delta Force operator verses these guys. Somehow I don't think their "battle experience" is going to help them much if they run up against the former. Not to say the pilots here are raging incompetents like that, but talent and training can pretty easily trump experience.

This also ignores that huge parts of a test pilot job have jack all to do with combat actually almost nothing in reality, as forming doctrine and tactics is NOT part of a flight test program. The most you get into in flight testing is verifying the weapons function as designed which isn't exactly something you need massive combat experience for. Flight testing is mostly about making sure a design is safe, performs up to specification, and that all it's systems are reliable and maintainable. Indeed a pilot with allot of flight time on different types of units and strong technical knowledge is far and away preferable to a pilot only versed in a single main type but with combat experience. Many test pilots are in fact functionally engineers often with full blown degrees in aeronautics.

So yeah long and short of it is he's absolutely qualified to see a new design through flight testing, writing combat doctrine for? Maybe not so much, but that's not a test pilots job. Thus when one looks at it with a bit of knowledge on the subject Yui comes off as a colossal bitch dismissive of a clearly skilled pilot well suited for the task he was assigned based on previous experience. Combat experience really has fuck all to do with it, so if that's her problem she's an idiot and a bitch.
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Old 2012-07-16, 14:42   Link #927
Polarpew
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honestly i dont see how they can win any engagement seeing how BETA's dont come 1 or 2 at a time rather, hundreds at a time with each of them perfectly capable of taking down a TSF. Whats the point of them being capable of aerial mockbattles when the laser class BETAs are just gonna shoot them down? How bout developing better weapons with better penetration and stopping power instead of increasing the speed of the TSFs, seeing how most of the time they will all be stuck defending a position. Im assuming nukes are nonexistent in this universe... make bigger bombs then jeez...

Honestly no point in getting attached to any of the characters seeing how they're all doomed to die eventually.
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Old 2012-07-16, 14:43   Link #928
DezoPenguin
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Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
So yeah long and short of it is he's absolutely qualified to see a new design through flight testing, writing combat doctrine for? Maybe not so much, but that's not a test pilots job. Thus when one looks at it with a bit of knowledge on the subject Yui comes off as a colossal bitch dismissive of a clearly skilled pilot well suited for the task he was assigned based on previous experience. Combat experience really has fuck all to do with it, so if that's her problem she's an idiot and a bitch.
To be fair to Yui, Yuuya didn't exactly come off well there, too:

Yuuya: So, you watched my fight? *smug grin* *strut* *preen*
Yui: *cutdown*
Yuuya: You Japanese doll!

So let's see, Yuuya tries to make a first impression as a pompous male, Yui strikes back by being an unrelenting bitch, and Yuuya comes back with implied anti-Japanese racism. Glad that exchange wasn't our first introduction to either one of 'em. But it would have been a lot better if Yui had actually explained to Yuuya why she thought he was an idiot. Is she complaining about the exceeded height (the pre-mission briefing did say that this combat was supposed to take place in a BETA-occupied area, so that implies Laser Class in range) as kari-no-sugata suggested above? Or something else about the fight? Or just his showboating to her in the hall (i.e. his to-her lack of professionalism because she wants everyone around her to be deathly serious robots 100% of the time, 'cause hey, people with emotions can't accurately mercy-kill you while you're getting nommed)? Without knowing the reason behind her actions, we can't tell if she's justified or not.

...offhand, what was with the weird vocals for Cryska in the teaser sequence? Was the echo voice supposed to be for she and Inia speaking together, or something else?
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Old 2012-07-16, 14:47   Link #929
Triple_R
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I also wonder what these mock battles are meant to accomplish.

This style of combat is for training people for elites vs. elites: It's to prepare folks like Amuro Ray for the Char Aznables of the world. That's a completely different kettle of fish than elites vs. massive legions of powerful cannon fodder that don't particularly try hard to avoid your weapons fire.

If anything, you'd think they'd be training these soldiers in how to maximize kill counts when facing large numbers of enemies.

...But, it was still a fun watch, just a bit strange in context.
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Old 2012-07-16, 14:51   Link #930
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Welp, I've found my weekly dose of mecha. Something I haven't had in a long, long while (reasons posted in an earlier post). I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the ride.

Oh and...hellloooooooo Sweden!
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Old 2012-07-16, 15:04   Link #931
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
To be fair to Yui, Yuuya didn't exactly come off well there, too:

Yuuya: So, you watched my fight? *smug grin* *strut* *preen*
Yui: *cutdown*
Yuuya: You Japanese doll!

So let's see, Yuuya tries to make a first impression as a pompous male, Yui strikes back by being an unrelenting bitch, and Yuuya comes back with implied anti-Japanese racism.
Yuuya himself is half-Japanese though, as was mentioned earlier on this thread. I suspect that's what some of this animosity boils down to.

I don't think that Yuuya was being a pompous male just for the sake of being a pompous male.


"Did you enjoy seeing the latest in American combat manuverability, Lt.? I suppose the Empire's TSFs..." - Yuuya

Yuuya is basically getting into American vs. Japanese trash-talking. That, I think, is the point - Not just pure ego-stroking. I get the impression that Yuuya has a deep-seated resentment against the Japanese side of his heritage (think of how Spock from Star Trek tends to view the human side of his heritage). Perhaps at some level Yuuya wants to deny that part of himself, and be more of a pure "all-American", as he sees it. Trash-talking the Japanese to a Japanese superior might seem to Yuuya as the ultimate way to give vent to his feelings of resentments towards his Japanese side.


"I'm disappointed, Ensign Bridges. To think I have to entrust the future of the Empire to someone like you..." - Yui

Yui directly referencing the Japanese Empire is intentional. It's not just a randomly chosen generic insult. I think it might hint at her viewing Yuuya as a guy who's betrayed his Japanese half, and by extension the Japanese people. The message isn't just "You suck. I can't believe I'm relying on you to protect the Empire". The message is probably more like "You dirty traitor. Where were you when I watched Kyoto burn to the ground? To think that the Empire is relying on the likes of you."


IOW, this isn't really about a young hot shot pilot ego-stroking and a Lt. being overly harsh in trying to keep that ego from swelling too big. No, this runs much deeper than that, I think.
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Old 2012-07-16, 15:07   Link #932
AmeNoJaku
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I also wonder what these mock battles are meant to accomplish.

This style of combat is for training people for elites vs. elites: It's to prepare folks like Amuro Ray for the Char Aznables of the world. That's a completely different kettle of fish than elites vs. massive legions of powerful cannon fodder that don't particularly try hard to avoid your weapons fire.

If anything, you'd think they'd be training these soldiers in how to maximize kill counts when facing large numbers of enemies.
Elites, they are just inexperienced kids showing off... but otherwise that's my main problem with the whole setup... it makes no sense

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
...But, it was still a fun watch, just a bit strange in context.
... and unfortunately that's the only thing the first episode tells about the rest rest of the show...

... it's just another mecha
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Old 2012-07-16, 16:41   Link #933
SolarAquarion
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Originally Posted by Somnus View Post
Welp, I've found my weekly dose of mecha. Something I haven't had in a long, long while (reasons posted in an earlier post). I'm just going to sit back and enjoy the ride.

Oh and...hellloooooooo Sweden!
What earlier post?
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Old 2012-07-16, 16:42   Link #934
potchip
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Looks like many new comers are interested in the 'bleak' setting however are turned off by human's approach to the whole BETA situation, a bit like a lazy bum crying poor.

Meanwhile the fans of the franchise readily come up with band-aids to apply at various spots.
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Old 2012-07-16, 16:50   Link #935
maximilianjenus
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it's annoying because the human aproach to betas has been explained ad infinitum, how nukes, aerial strikes etc.. suck... but then we have to consider that we have people complaining why it was only girl in mechas in ep01 and even ep02 I think fighting against willfull ignorance or plain dumbness is more hopeless than fighting the BETA.
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Old 2012-07-16, 16:58   Link #936
SolarAquarion
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MLA:TE is number 2 on amazon presell list. You know what would be funny if after MLA:TE satelight animates the whole trilogy. Talk about a beautifully made harem anime (Extra).....
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Old 2012-07-16, 17:05   Link #937
Jan-Poo
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I personally think that sending teen girls to battle is hardly justifiable and the logic explained in the novels doesn't really work when you consider that the nation doesn't just need pilots but a lot of many different professionals to function. In primis people that work in factories to produce weapons, foods and other indispensable equipments.

If there was really such a shortage of manpower then it would be a lot wiser to make the young women squeeze babies as soon as possible and as much as possible. Of course that would entail making them work in "safe" environments preferable.

You could make an exception only for those who show an exceptional aptitude in combat and that could make a difference on the battlefield, certainly not girls who are likely to die in the first 8 minutes. And you certainly would rather prepare them well before sending them to the slaughter.

But anyway, name a mecha series that doesn't use some kind of barely acceptable plot device to justify teens piloting robots to fight wars where they are likely to die.
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Old 2012-07-16, 17:09   Link #938
Silvance
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Originally Posted by potchip View Post
Looks like many new comers are interested in the 'bleak' setting however are turned off by human's approach to the whole BETA situation, a bit like a lazy bum crying poor.

Meanwhile the fans of the franchise readily come up with band-aids to apply at various spots.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maximilianjenus View Post
it's annoying because the human aproach to betas has been explained ad infinitum, how nukes, aerial strikes etc.. suck... but then we have to consider that we have people complaining why it was only girl in mechas in ep01 and even ep02 I think fighting against willfull ignorance or plain dumbness is more hopeless than fighting the BETA.
I do agree that the newcomers to the franchise indeed raises questions that can be answered by just simply reading the novels; but not everyone has the time for such things, no? Besides, if they haven't read any visual novels before, and not used to reading bunch of texts, it may be difficult for them to get into the main trilogy considering they'll have to go through so much info dump before reaching Alternative. 10 hours for Extra, 10 hours for Unlimited, and 50+ hours for Alternative. If you think about it, they'll obviously pick the easiest choice, ask questions or point out things that just don't make any sense to them. Can't really blame them for it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xezexal View Post
MLA:TE is number 2 on amazon presell list. You know what would be funny if after MLA:TE satelight animates the whole trilogy. Talk about a beautifully made harem anime (Extra).....
With the current staff they have? I hope not. Still.... Animated Extra, huh? haha. I wonder how they'll take it... "Where are the mechs? Where's the gore? What's this cliche high school rom-com crap? This is not Muv-Luv!" or something along those lines...

j/k
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Old 2012-07-16, 17:16   Link #939
SolarAquarion
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Originally Posted by Silvance View Post
I do agree that the newcomers to the franchise indeed raises questions that can be answered by just simply reading the novels; but not everyone has the time for such things, no? Besides, if they haven't read any visual novels before, and not used to reading bunch of texts, it may be difficult for them to get into the main trilogy considering they'll have to go through so much info dump before reaching Alternative. 10 hours for Extra, 10 hours for Unlimited, and 50+ hours for Alternative. If you think about it, they'll obviously pick the easiest choice, ask questions or point out things that just don't make any sense to them. Can't really blame them for it.



With the current staff they have? I hope not. Still.... Animated Extra, huh? haha. I wonder how they'll take it... "Where are the mechs? Where's the gore? What's this cliche high school rom-com crap? This is not Muv-Luv!" or something along those lines...

j/k
http://www27392u.sakura.ne.jp/index_news.cgi

Top 10 Preordered anime this season: (No Sword Art Online due to the Amazon dispute)

1. Horizon 2
2. Total Eclipse
3. Tari Tari
4. Dog Days'
5. Humanity has Declined
6. Loose Lesbians
7. I can't H her
8. Joshiraku
9. Ambition of Nobuna
10. Kokoro Connect

At least the anime version of Muv Luv Extra would give them a interesting view on reality. For every world where everything is heaven, there is a world where you suffer in hell for the people you love.

I guess Japan wants the VN's to be animated?
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Old 2012-07-16, 17:21   Link #940
kari-no-sugata
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Yuuya himself is half-Japanese though, as was mentioned earlier on this thread. I suspect that's what some of this animosity boils down to.

I don't think that Yuuya was being a pompous male just for the sake of being a pompous male.
Note also that Yui actually starts the conversation with a pretty neutral phrase.

Right before Yuuya initially replies he makes an expression/reaction like "god, do I really have to endure this shit?"


Quote:
"Did you enjoy seeing the latest in American combat manuverability, Lt.? I suppose the Empire's TSFs..." - Yuuya
Small observation: he puts heavy emphasis when he says her rank. I'm no expert, but I'm guessing that officially she outranks him massively while probably being a lot younger too (someone said she's 17 or so - ie about same age as MC of Tari-tari). Anyone know Yuuya's age? I'm guessing he's early 20s.


Quote:
IOW, this isn't really about a young hot shot pilot ego-stroking and a Lt. being overly harsh in trying to keep that ego from swelling too big. No, this runs much deeper than that, I think.
Yuuya certainly shows a very different attitude specifically to Yui, and considering they never met before and he immediately notices that she's Japanese... well... clearly nationality is a sore point for him. Yui's said very little so have to guess more with her - I don't remember her discriminating based on military or social rank before in the past either. No idea if she has something against Americans in particular.

In the preview we hear Yui bluntly telling Yuuya that he's inexperienced. I presume Yui has a lot of background info on Yuuya (even prior to the mock battle) so her stated disappointment is probably mostly about how he piloted... though maybe his background is grating on her a bit too. Going by the end of ep 2, I would guess that Yui is intensely focused on R&D and trying to win - so for her, good pilots and good development programs are top priority.


Hmm, I wonder if the "top gun" reference is supposed to be hinting at potential relationships? Erratic hot shot + instructor babe. Might take more than a few lines of "you've lost that loving feeling" to break the ice though

Though given that we see Yui in a yellow pilot suit + a yellow TSF (a Takemikazuchi?) in the OP, I guess this instructor babe can do "practical training" too...


PS Anyone else prefer Yui's look here to her pilot suit look?
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