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Old 2012-07-16, 22:55   Link #961
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Wild Goose: I was been debating doing so, because it is a spinoff after all, and given how all Fate/series stories have pages, well... Though, I thought it would be better for someone more familiar with the franchise to do it.
Well, it can't hurt to try, and then spur more people to come out of the woodwork.

TV Tropes page is now available.

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Originally Posted by orion View Post
US Navy and Marines... badasses by rep.
Air Force...no badass rep.
There's a reason it's called the Chair Force. Note the Ault Report: USAF decided their losses were due to tech and decided to install guns and make better missiles. Navy decided that training was the issue and established Top Gun. Navy kills in Nam go from 3:1 to 13:1. Air Force kills drop.

Quote:
I'm holding out for the girl not pointing a gun to her head in the OP.
The power of love will defrost her. Also she's not pointing her gun at her head, it's being pointed at the ceiling, while she rests her head against it.

Or, well, if there's no love, there's always angryse-

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Originally Posted by DoomRavager View Post
@Wild Goose: By the way, that was the F-15E Strike Eagle, not the C Eagle.

Also he was previously a test pilot for the F-22, but got shipped off for socking a teammate. So maybe not navy then? Since there wasn't a naval F-22.

But Top Gun... maybe he transferred between service branches somehow, or maybe the TOPGUN program expanded from the Navy alone.
Aha. That always bugged me with the TSF Eagle, because I can identify the IRL Eagle and Strike Eagle by sight. Garh -_-

Expansion of Top Gun from Navy to all US TSF pilots would probably be the best explanation, I agree.
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Old 2012-07-16, 22:56   Link #962
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Well, sorta, because Yuuya is apparently Navy, and US Navy doesn't salute indoors.
Truthfully, if the writers of this series (a) were aware of this, and (b) included it on purpose as a semi-plot point governing Yuuya and Yui's initial interactions, I will consider TE one of my favorite series ever, regardless of what happens for the rest of the show.
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Old 2012-07-16, 22:56   Link #963
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by encia View Post
Manpower issue can be mitigated by robots/drones.
While the world seems to have the tech to create the TSFs we've seen, it's important to note that they're just humanoid fighter planes. There's no evidence that their tech level capable of creating semi-autonomous machines, even limited-AI machines like drones.
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Old 2012-07-16, 23:10   Link #964
Wild Goose
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Originally Posted by DezoPenguin View Post
Truthfully, if the writers of this series (a) were aware of this, and (b) included it on purpose as a semi-plot point governing Yuuya and Yui's initial interactions, I will consider TE one of my favorite series ever, regardless of what happens for the rest of the show.
I can't really expect that much, given that they zigzag on where Yuuya hails from, though the Muv-Luv wiki says he's US Army.

Then again, Army doesn't salute in combat zones, which you could argue Yukon Base may qualify as. Generally though, IIRC the Americans aren't as salute-happy as the Japanese.

Also, now we know where Tsuzuki stole the Numbers catsuits from - the bodysuits of the Scarlet Sisters.
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Old 2012-07-16, 23:10   Link #965
orion
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Originally Posted by encia View Post
Manpower issue can be mitigated by robots/drones.

As for "how long it takes for a human to be born and turned into a pilot" question, there are real life "child soliders" for cannon fodder/red shirts. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_use_of_children

But even then that's years....They don't have 11-15 years to wait plus artificial wombs to mass produce children. Not a part of the universe that the show is in or we'd have seen some of it by now as they'd have to defend those locations from attack also.

Adult males went first except for prob leaving one in a family if they're in the US as that's one of our rules. Then goes females. Then the teens are chosen and that's why you're seeing 14 yo female pilots in the first ep.
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Old 2012-07-16, 23:24   Link #966
encia
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
While the world seems to have the tech to create the TSFs we've seen, it's important to note that they're just humanoid fighter planes. There's no evidence that their tech level capable of creating semi-autonomous machines, even limited-AI machines like drones.
MLA's Earth may not have Google.

From
http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/...ecognises-cats
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_driverless_car

Google is working on "Skynet" and self driving cars.
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Old 2012-07-16, 23:28   Link #967
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Regarding the rate of replacement for the population in the setting... With how things are going, I'm kind of surprised things haven't gone quite like how it is in Cthulhu Tech, where morals have relaxed to the point where people don't even blink anymore when middle-to-high school age kids, you know. This is doubly surprising, given the franchise's roots as an eroge.

Edit: Tsk, even as a non-franchise fan trying her best to catch up on its info, there's so much I can't even say even off-hand. Subforum where?!?
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Old 2012-07-16, 23:38   Link #968
orion
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Regarding the rate of replacement for the population in the setting... With how things are going, I'm kind of surprised things haven't gone quite like how it is in Cthulhu Tech, where morals have relaxed to the point where people don't even blink anymore when middle-to-high school age kids, you know. This is doubly surprising, given the franchise's roots as an eroge.

Edit: Tsk, even as a non-franchise fan trying her best to catch up on its info, there's so much I can't even say even off-hand. Subforum where?!?
Well Japan does have laws now....
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Old 2012-07-16, 23:49   Link #969
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Heck, I'm surprised why there isn't some sort of system in place to ensure the continued viability of the remaining population. Other sci-fi stories have it -- for example, in 40k the Cadians, who pretty much have close to 100% mobilization, are actually given mandatory time to, you know, "get busy!" with lot-drawn partners.

The bottom line is, there have to be kids being born to (eventually) replace all these adults or late-teenagers who're being fed into the meat grinder.
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Old 2012-07-16, 23:49   Link #970
encia
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Well Japan does have laws now....
Well, real life Japan has birth rate problem. http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/05...panese-people/
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Old 2012-07-17, 00:04   Link #971
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Is there anything that indicates that Yuuya is actually from a Top Gun program rather than that being just a nickname VG came up with?
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Old 2012-07-17, 00:08   Link #972
Myssa Rei
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Area 51 was name-dropped as the premiere R&D center, so one assumes that Yuuya is at least a test pilot. Whether he's actually part of the so-called Top Gun program though remains unclear.
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Old 2012-07-17, 00:12   Link #973
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Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Heck, I'm surprised why there isn't some sort of system in place to ensure the continued viability of the remaining population. Other sci-fi stories have it -- for example, in 40k the Cadians, who pretty much have close to 100% mobilization, are actually given mandatory time to, you know, "get busy!" with lot-drawn partners.

The bottom line is, there have to be kids being born to (eventually) replace all these adults or late-teenagers who're being fed into the meat grinder.
I don't know.

I keep reading arguments like this on this thread (and similar ones), but I'm not sure if it's as simple as people are making it out to be.

You can't really have teenage girls that are both pregnant and actively fighting in wars. Well, you can, but it's not exactly advisable.

If your 16 to 36 male population is "tapped out" on the front-lines, and now you need to turn to a different demographic to try to hold off the BETA hordes, who do you turn to next?

If it's not teenage girls, then what... Adult women? Old men?

Let's just assume that adult women are the ones handling important non-frontline roles (and there's historical precedent for this in real world WW 2, where during that war women took on a lot of manufacturing jobs). Somebody has to be handling this, after all.

Ok, so once your 16 to 36 male population is "tapped out", you have a choice between throwing girls like Yui Takamura against the BETA, or some older guy in his 50s who may be barely fit to even pilot these mechas.


In any event, it's not like humanity has just stopped having babies period. Remember that scene in Episode 2? The one where Yui saw a woman with a newly born baby?

So who knows? Maybe governments are giving a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" encouragement to their service personal to procreate when they're not on the frontlines.
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Old 2012-07-17, 00:31   Link #974
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Considering how the first two episodes went, all this is done just so we get into a false sense of security. And when you least expect it... BAM! Anime turns again to "very bleak/gory sci-fi/horror/action-thriller."
It already happened twice (Episode 1's slice-of-life followed by Episode 2's NOMFEST followed by Episode 3's less bloody interactions), and since this is supposedly a two-cour series, they should try to refrain from doing that cycle of mood changes too often. If they do another BETA battle next episode, people would notice the pattern and give out expectations accordingly.

i.e. It would get stale.
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Old 2012-07-17, 00:37   Link #975
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I sometimes rather wonder what exactly people think being a soldier implies. What it doesn’t imply is brainwashing or the magical removal of sometimes objectionable personality traits. Service members can in fact be unpleasant dicks and often particularly so when others are messing with “their turf”. If you’ve read any military history you’ll find examples of petty squabbles that will boggle the mind. I’ve also heard it compared to high school if not worse with cliques, hazing, and ass kissing galore.

It's actually arguably most common in war time as if an asshole does his job well... Well people are inclined to not really care if he's an asshole. So yeah maybe it ain't endearing, but acting like it's unrealistic to the setting or the result of some deep seated trauma is a bit daft IMO. News flash as in the civvie world some people in the military are just irritable and obstinate.
Tarisa's behavior felt more like that of a bratty little girl whose daddy didn't buy her ice cream than that of a jerk soldier.

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First off that "no talking" thing could easily just be totally up to a given units discretion.
As I recall, it was the entire Yokohama UN base's discretion. Yes, it's completely reasonable to believe that the practices are different in Alaska. Doesn't keep it from being annoying, though.

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Second from an out of universe perspective five minutes of characters grunting to themselves isn't exactly engaging, and having combatants speaking to each other is just a staple of fiction.

Seriously if this of all things "ruined" the fight for you I seriously don't know if this is the right genre for you given that stuff like this is such a staple.
Have you read the VNs? I don't know if you found or would find the mock battles in them interesting or not, but from my experience, they were quite engaging. There was a lot more than just "characters grunting to themselves," there was suspense as the pilots in a team relayed to each other about where the enemy was, their situation, and discussed what strategy to use next. That was far more interesting dialogue than the one-liners in this episode.
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Old 2012-07-17, 00:41   Link #976
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Originally Posted by Tempester View Post
Have you read the VNs? I don't know if you found or would find the mock battles in them interesting or not, but from my experience, they were quite engaging. There was a lot more than just "characters grunting to themselves," there was suspense as the pilots in a team relayed to each other about where the enemy was, their situation, and what strategy to use next. That was far more interesting dialogue than the one-liners in this episode.
Ever considered that's because VN's are primarily _novels_?

Anime doesn't need all that talking because you can actually see what's going on. In VNs you don't get nearly the level of animation (if you get any at all).
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Old 2012-07-17, 01:50   Link #977
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I hope we get more character flashback arcs that feature the war against the BETA more heavily.

Like, for example maybe Ibrahim becoming Hero of Rhodes, or some Alternative III stuff.
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Old 2012-07-17, 02:06   Link #978
Wild Goose
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All in all it was a decent ep and i don't really see anything majorly wrong with it that I could nitpick to death.

I DO, however, feel like writing Muv-Luv fanfics about the COSEAN forces trying to hold the line, and maybe a few Malaysian pilots piggybacking the Australian Hornet evaluation team...
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Old 2012-07-17, 02:32   Link #979
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Originally Posted by Quarkboy View Post
Ever considered that's because VN's are primarily _novels_?

Anime doesn't need all that talking because you can actually see what's going on. In VNs you don't get nearly the level of animation (if you get any at all).
This would be true for any other VN than MLA which runs on the legendary engine RugP. Everything moves and jumps around the scene, characters are positioned at different depts, and their words are lip-synced.
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Old 2012-07-17, 03:31   Link #980
encia
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I don't know.

I keep reading arguments like this on this thread (and similar ones), but I'm not sure if it's as simple as people are making it out to be.

You can't really have teenage girls that are both pregnant and actively fighting in wars. Well, you can, but it's not exactly advisable.

If your 16 to 36 male population is "tapped out" on the front-lines, and now you need to turn to a different demographic to try to hold off the BETA hordes, who do you turn to next?

If it's not teenage girls, then what... Adult women? Old men?

Let's just assume that adult women are the ones handling important non-frontline roles (and there's historical precedent for this in real world WW 2, where during that war women took on a lot of manufacturing jobs). Somebody has to be handling this, after all.

Ok, so once your 16 to 36 male population is "tapped out", you have a choice between throwing girls like Yui Takamura against the BETA, or some older guy in his 50s who may be barely fit to even pilot these mechas.


In any event, it's not like humanity has just stopped having babies period. Remember that scene in Episode 2? The one where Yui saw a woman with a newly born baby?

So who knows? Maybe governments are giving a "nudge, nudge, wink, wink" encouragement to their service personal to procreate when they're not on the frontlines.
In real life, "have one for mum, one for dad, and one for the country"- Peter Costello (ex Treasurer of Australia). http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/5040582.stm
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