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Old 2012-07-23, 11:58   Link #1281
sikvod00
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By the way, as much as the current Yui rubbed me the wrong way (even if she's right), I would really hate her if it wasn't for those first two episodes. Seeing every one of your friends and teammates get killed--some in the most disturbing ways--and your country nearly destroyed would turn anyone into a hard ass. That's actually very important characterization. Still doesn't stop people from calling her a bitch, but oh, well.

EDIT:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tk3997 View Post
I'd say he knows plenty unless we stupidly assume US training includes NO information about the alien swarm ravaging the earth and killing billions. Not having seen them first hand isn't really that much of a determent given how rock stupid they are. Honestly the BETA are so retarded good simulation should be pretty much the same as facing them in combat. They're not innovative, they're not adaptive, they're not clever.
If the BETA are that stupid, what does that say about humanity considering they're on the brink of extinction thanks to them? You're severely underestimating them just to prove that Yuuya doesn't need the experience. What was the point of showing how savage and destructive they were in the first 2 episodes? From what I can gather about the simulations, they're the minimum requirements necessary to fight and understand the BETA; but the chances of you surviving are still low even if you ace the simulation. However if you struggle the way Yuuya did, you're toast.
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Old 2012-07-23, 12:09   Link #1282
kk2extreme
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Most Americans are racist in ep 4...
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Old 2012-07-23, 12:11   Link #1283
Sheba
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Originally Posted by kk2extreme View Post
Most Americans are racist in ep 4...
It goes both ways tho.
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Old 2012-07-23, 12:11   Link #1284
sikvod00
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There was literally a total of 4-5 Americans on screen for that scene, though. That doesn't prove anything.
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Old 2012-07-23, 12:16   Link #1285
novalysis
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At heart here is the huge culture clash. It's clear that Yuuya's raised in completely different Culture Norms, trained in completely different tactics and equipment, and in a different Military environment and Culture. It's horrendously naive for Yui to presume that an Ethnic Japanse raised in an American culture would behave as a Japanese, unless somehow, some racist BS Racial Genetic Ideology still runs rampant in Japan in the world of Muv Luv Alternative.

At the same time, I still wonder why Yuuya declared outright to Yui that she was a Japanese Doll at the end of episode 3, before the chain of provocations in this episode.

As for the performance of the BETAS, do note that the vast majority of casualties in the Second episode were from the Laser Class BETAS. Without them, most of the squad would have survived, saved for the few morons celebrating after scoring a few kills. So, I chalk the performance of the BETAS Despite their Tactical inferiority to their superior technology - in the deployment of their lasers- that's the most obvious manifestation.

Indeed, take away those lasers, give the humans anti-laser force-fields, amp up the mobility and durability of the surface fighters, give humanity energy weapons of their own, and I'd suspect even a vastly outnumbered human army should be able to inflict massive defeats on BETA Armies. In short, if the BETA had landed just a century later....

Close the Tech gap, and the BETAs suddenly no longer seem so great a threat.

There is indeed a Culture clash of mentalities here.

Could this be chalked down in part to the fact that Yui technically is still a young woman, and in a peaceful world would definitely still be an undergraduate at this stage of life? A more mature woman or man for that matter would have handled the situation much, much better. Yui is a young woman whose character has been severely warped by the circumstances of Alternative. She's not the most mature of persons, to say the least- though her immaturity is far more subtle than that of Tarisa's hyena like behavior.
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Old 2012-07-23, 12:18   Link #1286
Triple_R
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I'll admit that if not for the first two episodes, my thinking would be closer to Tk3997's. I'm pretty sure I'd be loathing Yui if not for those first two episodes. Those first two episodes show that there's a nicer side to her, which has been thoroughly buried due to the tragedies she's lived through.

Yui really is being very unprofessional and unreasonable here. Yuuya hasn't actually done anything to deserve the endless tongue-lashings she's given him. The guy is doing his job. Sure, he mouthed off to her once, but Yui has just chosen to absolutely ride the hell out of him because of it, which is a disproportional response to say the least. I find it funny in a sitcom "over-the-top running joke" way, but it's certainly not realistic.


Tk3997 is also completely right about the BETA. Their only strengths are power and sheer numbers. Granted, those are pretty nice strengths, but the BETA seem to have no more smarts than an army of bugs. They definitely can be outwitted.
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Old 2012-07-23, 12:20   Link #1287
kari-no-sugata
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We're now 2 eps into this new arc.... but, anyone know what Yui's actual role/job/position is here? It seems to be more of an advisory or planning role, but unless I missed it, it's not been stated officially anywhere yet. We see her looking at a schematic design for a 'radiation cannon' in ep 4 but no idea if she's involved with the design or just reviewing it.

Maybe it's just a minor thing and not some huge spoiler. Everyone else was introduced properly... why not Yui? (Well, her name, rank and origin was introduced but not her role)

On a side note, the characters in the Argos squad are basically the test pilots for the "XJF" project, and not anything else right? AFAIK the XFJ project is a joint US/Japan thing under the UN to use US technology to improve Japan's "type-94" (aka Shiranui, which we saw walk out at the end of ep 4) - I imagine the US side wanted a US pilot to be the main test pilot? So this "Active" TSF that gets highlighted in ep 3 is actually not part of their development/test work and something they just happen to have (maybe some previous project?).
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Old 2012-07-23, 12:48   Link #1288
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post

Could this be chalked down in part to the fact that Yui technically is still a young woman, and in a peaceful world would definitely still be an undergraduate at this stage of life? A more mature woman or man for that matter would have handled the situation much, much better. Yui is a young woman whose character has been severely warped by the circumstances of Alternative. She's not the most mature of persons, to say the least- though her immaturity is far more subtle than that of Tarisa's hyena like behavior.
Ah, no. She is an officer first. A product of being a child soldier. Her maturity level is suppose to be more.
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Old 2012-07-23, 12:50   Link #1289
Trajan
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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I'll admit that if not for the first two episodes, my thinking would be closer to Tk3997's. I'm pretty sure I'd be loathing Yui if not for those first two episodes. Those first two episodes show that there's a nicer side to her, which has been thoroughly buried due to the tragedies she's lived through.
As you say, I think the first two episodes were meant to show us a softer side of Yui. But I also think they were also meant to give us an explanation for why Yui is such a hardass.

Yui is someone who has seen the horrors of war with BETA in an up close and personal way; she has also seen the inferiority of Japanese TSFs when going up against BETA. So for her, this XFJ project is monumentally important for the defense of Japan. However, its not a native Japanese project, but the Japanese going to the U.S. and essentially saying "please show us how to make our TSFs as good as yours." For a nationalist like Yui, this has to be a bit humiliating.

I think the reason she is so hard on Yuuya is a combination of three things: (a) he has never faced BETA in combat and so Yui believes Yuuya doesn't take the threat seriously and won't work as hard as needed to make the project a success (all the other test pilots have faced BETA); (b) he represents the United States, and I noted above, it has to be humiliating to rely on outside help to defend your country, especially when such help takes the form of a "half-breed"; and (c) Yui actually recognizes that Yuuya is a great pilot who will only get better, which goes against her belief that a half-breed could be a great pilot.

I think that's the intent anyways, but I don't think its been executed well so far.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kari-no-sugata View Post
On a side note, the characters in the Argos squad are basically the test pilots for the "XJF" project, and not anything else right? AFAIK the XFJ project is a joint US/Japan thing under the UN to use US technology to improve Japan's "type-94" (aka Shiranui, which we saw walk out at the end of ep 4) - I imagine the US side wanted a US pilot to be the main test pilot? So this "Active" TSF that gets highlighted in ep 3 is actually not part of their development/test work and something they just happen to have (maybe some previous project?).
This is perhaps the most frustrating thing for me about this series. It's a series about test pilots, but 4 episodes in, and they haven't done a thing that a test pilot would do. It's obviously possible to tell a story about test pilots in an interesting manner (see The Right Stuff), but this is not that story. (Also, I think the personalities of the XJF pilots would make them terrible test pilots, but whatevs . . .)
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Old 2012-07-23, 12:56   Link #1290
asdffdsa
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It's true. She should just kick his ass. But never fear. It seems the ass whooping is coming next episode. ^__^
I wouldn't be so gullible in accepting, for instance, Yui's claim that he's no better than a Japanese trainee if I were you. Without spoiling anything, I'll just say that in my opinion this was perhaps Yui's unbridled nationalism talking.

Yuuya is an extremely good pilot, but the Japanese TSFs are completely different machines with a completely different approach (e.g. the idea that samurai swords > guns). In addition, both the training regimens he has undergone and the machines he has trained with have been designed for TSF vs. TSF combat. I'm not exactly sure why the training and engineering of the U.S. fits this theme. I mean, it almost seems like their plan is to nuke/g-bomb all BETA, cleaning up the remnants from a distance, and then as the dust settles from the war (assuming it ends) they'll be more than prepared for the resource conflicts that will ensue over whatever unirradiated/"un-g-bombed" land remains with their TSF vs. TSF investments.

Actually, being from the U.S. myself, that plan sounds quite American, haha.

Last edited by relentlessflame; 2012-07-23 at 19:58. Reason: remove unneeded spoiler
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Old 2012-07-23, 12:57   Link #1291
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trajan View Post
As you say, I think the first two episodes were meant to show us a softer side of Yui. But I also think they were also meant to give us an explanation for why Yui is such a hardass.

Yui is someone who has seen the horrors of war with BETA in an up close and personal way; she has also seen the inferiority of Japanese TSFs when going up against BETA. So for her, this XFJ project is monumentally important for the defense of Japan. However, its not a native Japanese project, but the Japanese going to the U.S. and essentially saying "please show us how to make our TSFs as good as yours." For a nationalist like Yui, this has to be a bit humiliating.

I think the reason she is so hard on Yuuya is a combination of three things: (a) he has never faced BETA in combat and so Yui believes Yuuya doesn't take the threat seriously and won't work as hard as needed to make the project a success (all the other test pilots have faced BETA); (b) he represents the United States, and I noted above, it has to be humiliating to rely on outside help to defend your country, especially when such help takes the form of a "half-breed"; and (c) Yui actually recognizes that Yuuya is a great pilot who will only get better, which goes against her belief that a half-breed could be a great pilot.
So in other words, she's a racist.
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Old 2012-07-23, 13:13   Link #1292
Trajan
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
So in other words, she's a racist.
I can understand how my previous post might make it seem like I believe that about Yui, but honestly, I'm not sure whether Yui sees Yuuya as Japanese or not-Japanese. On the one hand, some of her insults to Yuuya seem to come across as "you call yourself japanese?", implying that he isn't. But on the other hand, some of her insults come across as "as a japanese, you should be better than this."

I do think Yui is a nationalist and a classist, though. Perhaps her problem with Yuuya is more one of class than of race.

PS: Not that Yuuya is any better, he clearly hates Yui because of her race.

Last edited by Trajan; 2012-07-23 at 13:24. Reason: clarity
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Old 2012-07-23, 13:19   Link #1293
Miraluka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sikvod00 View Post
I assumed from the emoticons that Wilfriback knows Yui is going to destroy Yuuya, and he actually isn't looking forward to seeing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
You seriously think he can beat her? Even for an anime-only viewer like me it's pretty obvious she's gonna make him eat his own ass.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I expect him to get better and more skilled at some point, but I'm pretty sure right now he has no chance.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Oh well, if that's the case just ignore everything I said.

Guys, note that previously I edited 'fixing' Kazu-kun's quoted post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It's true. He should just kick her ass. But never fear. It seems the ass whooping is coming next episode. ^__^
Yuuya had a problems with the 'software' operatives devices but in the end the 'hardware' always will have the same funcions at the end.

So, if Yuuya was capable of beating TSF simulators despite they're mean to be impossible due its test stage I can see one thing coming from him...

Natural Talent, that means the moment he gets used to the machine he has to pilot, the theory that says experience is superior will be overthrown even if Yui is on her best TSF.

Talent vs Experience.

Thats what I see coming for the next episode.
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Old 2012-07-23, 13:19   Link #1294
Destined_Fate
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There's a difference between doing ones job and what Yuuya is doing. Yui is stuck(She even bails him out of trouble of his own doing despite asking something of the UN not being something one does at a whim because that requires a lot of clout and costs favors) with Yuuya and him being rude, disrespectful, and the such will put peoples lives at risk.

Yui confronts him and asks him if something is the matter, Yuuya says no so she tells him to correct himself than since nothing is clearly the issue while purposely saying things to get Yuuya to show his true feelings since there is clearly an issue. So clearly Yuuya shares a lot of the blame here as well and acting very unprofessional to his superior.

As a person that was in the military for a while I understand exactly why Yui is acting the way she is and her actions aren't "Bitchy" or "unjustified" in the least. Sure she's a bit arrogant but so is Yuuya, the difference is that Yui hasn't let her personal feelings get in the way of doing her job while Yuuya could have cost the lives of not only his team but his own as well if they went against real BETA and instead of correcting himself he blames his own machine while insulting his superior.

I learned fast in Boot Camp that if you mess up that you never blame the tools handed to you. After all the guy next you used their tools just fine to succeed, so clearly it isn't the tools that failed but you that has failed. Thus the only path left to take is to either correct yourself or to give up before someone gets hurt.
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Old 2012-07-23, 13:33   Link #1295
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Wilfriback View Post
Talent vs Experience.
I don't see such duality at all. To begin with the experience is a must even of you have talent. Yuuya's inability to properly control the Japanese mech right now and his bad decisions during the simulation shows that very clearly.

On the other hand I don't think all Yui has going for her is experience. Back in the academy she was clearly a few notches above the other cadets. She might not be as talented as Yuuya since he's the MC and all that but I bet she can hold her ground against him even in his best condition.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2012-07-23 at 14:47.
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Old 2012-07-23, 13:36   Link #1296
Sheba
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Three years have passed since those two episodes, it's unlikely she have spent those years emoing in the corner and writing haiku about the loss of her friends and the extinction of humankind.

I am not sure what she have seen more but clearly, she is left a very bitter woman. And is need of some hugging from someone like Yuuya, even if it comes in the form of hate smex.
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Old 2012-07-23, 13:36   Link #1297
Miraluka
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Next episode implies the vs with Yui using her personalized TSF. Yuuya doesn't even has one.
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Old 2012-07-23, 13:51   Link #1298
FRS
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Having watched ep 4 i have to side with Yui, Yuuya deserve that trashing, he may have the talent but he does not seem to be willing to adapt to the situation and always push the blame around him:

At the end of ep 3 he trying to play the macho nationalistic card and got shoot down in flames but hey it's the japanese girl fault not his never.

In this episode he disrespect her in front of the squad, he tried to play the hero and got himself encircled but of course it's the fault of the mech, he doesnt even have the decency to thanks her when she bailed him out of the russian enclave and you are still wondering why as a superior officer Yui trashed him ?
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Old 2012-07-23, 13:55   Link #1299
orion
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Three years have passed since those two episodes, it's unlikely she have spent those years emoing in the corner and writing haiku about the loss of her friends and the extinction of humankind.

I am not sure what she have seen more but clearly, she is left a very bitter woman. And is need of some hugging from someone like Yuuya, even if it comes in the form of hate smex.
It's not obvous about anything concerning her 3 years after the event. Hopefully, they'll show it.
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Old 2012-07-23, 13:57   Link #1300
LeoXiao
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I wouldn't be so gullible in accepting, for instance, Yui's claim that he's no better than a Japanese trainee if I were you. Without spoiling anything, I'll just say that in my opinion this was perhaps Yui's unbridled nationalism talking.
I think that Yui was trying to get back at Yuuya somehow for his obvious and unfounded anti-Japanese attitude. It's not her style to just say "cut out the racist BS" (which she ought to do, tbh), so she uses some other avenues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by asdffdsa View Post
I'm not exactly sure why the training and engineering of the U.S. fits this theme. I mean, it almost seems like their plan is to nuke/g-bomb all BETA cleaning up the remnants from a distance, and then as the dust settles from the war (assuming it ends) they'll be more than prepared for the resource conflicts that will ensue over whatever unirradiated/"un-g-bombed" land remains with their TSF vs. TSF investments.

Actually, being from the U.S. myself, that plan sounds quite American, haha.
Superior firepower hell yeah!

Last edited by LeoXiao; 2014-01-13 at 11:24.
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