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Old 2012-07-23, 22:21   Link #1401
encia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post
And yet, when he comes with objective reasons as to why the mech is crap, not just "it's crap, what's wrong with it" but objective stuff like "the eng
ine has low power, is only effective at certain speeds and has trouble maintaining it" (which, by the way, is stuff that you can notice after one or two drives. Car shows do it all the time.) no objection is raised, and he is told to just deal with it. That is where the legitimacy is. Yui basically saying ""Yes, you're right. But our pilots can handle it, so what's the problem?"
Yuuya didn't counter the argument with Yui's teammates being dead i.e. "handling it? LOL they're dead!!!" Yuuya didn't read Yui's history file.

Last edited by encia; 2012-07-23 at 22:52.
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Old 2012-07-23, 22:36   Link #1402
creb
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This thread just confirms my belief that everyone should serve a mandatory term in their nation's military, for more reasons than I care to list.
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Old 2012-07-23, 22:41   Link #1403
encia
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Originally Posted by creb View Post
This thread just confirms my belief that everyone should serve a mandatory term in their nation's military, for more reasons than I care to list.
Well, Yui can order Yuuya to keep quiet, but She instead engages in a debate. Remember, this is a testing environment.
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Old 2012-07-23, 22:43   Link #1404
Netto Azure
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
Or this is all building up towards angrysex in which case okay, fine, whatever.
That would make all this TL;DR posting debates worth it actually.

Still for some reason I still lean towards backing Yuuya even though as you said they're both just being pot and kettle, so eh.
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Old 2012-07-23, 22:47   Link #1405
Marcus H.
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This thread just confirms my belief that everyone should serve a mandatory term in their nation's military, for more reasons than I care to list.
...Nah.

It's doesn't work that way in the Philippines. One whole year of Citizen's Army Training and it all becomes forgotten after that.
Besides, all it does was to expose who will abuse their power early on.
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:09   Link #1406
encia
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
The article didn't mention a DNA confirmation of parenthood. Besides, The Sun is a tabloid.
The normal hybrid process doesn't result with the said white baby. There's no mention of IVF...

http://zsobig.hubpages.com/hub/the-mystery-of-genetics

I also would like to add that skin color is believed to be determined by seven different genes. If a woman or a man is of a mixed race, their genes contain a mixture of black and white traits. When they come together, they will have a mixed-race baby.
But occassionally the egg or the sperm can contain genes coding for only one color. If two come together that contain the same color - for example an egg with white and a sperm with also white coding - the child will have a different skin color than their parents - in our example that would result in a white child of black parents


A DNA test would reduce ambiguity.

Last edited by encia; 2012-07-23 at 23:33.
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:48   Link #1407
Village Idiot
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mstrchef117 View Post
delete
Dude delete that before you get banned, its Alternative VN spoilers.
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:54   Link #1408
encia
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Originally Posted by Wild Goose View Post
That said, Yui is a pot while Yuuya is a kettle, and both of them are black. And need slapping with a tuna and a time out.

Or this is all building up towards angrysex in which case okay, fine, whatever.
Their vocal tongue lashings results in physical tongue lashings LOL....
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Old 2012-07-23, 23:55   Link #1409
Sylphic
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Originally Posted by Keroko View Post

Which he did. Very swiftly and efficiently. Although the presentation of his findings was lacking in subtlety, he pointed out not not just the problems the machine has, but also what is causing the problems. And the best part? He was right too. Not once were these problems denied. Indeed, the retaliations confirms their existence. Yes, Yui threw back at him that any Japanese knows how to overcome the mechs flaws, but again, being able to overcome the flaws of a vehicle does not change that the flaws are still present. Imagine how much more effective the Japanese defense could be if the pilots could focus less on fighting their own machine, and more on fighting the BETA.
You missed the point. Yui was correct, the machine is not broken, and it is effective in combat as was demonstrated in Kyoto by a bunch of trainees. What's wrong with it is that Yuuya refuses to learn how it was intended to be used.

That's like flying a harrier and complaining that it can't go supersonic so therefore it sucks, while completely overlooking its ability to hover or be used on smaller carriers for close air support.

For someone being called an ace, you would think they would try and learn whatever it is they are trying to fly rather than complain about it sucking and having no good points. Incidentally, he admits this on his own, but he is too proud to admit it to Yui, who takes his words at face value. In addition, his feedback for the upcoming test machine would be nearly useless if he can't test the machine in the way it was meant to be used.
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Old 2012-07-24, 00:19   Link #1410
encia
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Originally Posted by Sylphic View Post
You missed the point. Yui was correct, the machine is not broken, and it is effective in combat as was demonstrated in Kyoto by a bunch of trainees. What's wrong with it is that Yuuya refuses to learn how it was intended to be used.
Those bunch of cute trainees are also dead i.e. same result as Yuuya. The hardware needs to change. During WW2, the Japanese didn't quickly change thier Mitsubishi Zero's weaknesses, while USA adapted from F4F WildCat to F6F HellCat (in addition to Vought F4U Corsair and Lockheed P-38 Lightning).

Spoiler for Ep4:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylphic View Post
That's like flying a harrier and complaining that it can't go supersonic so therefore it sucks, while completely overlooking its ability to hover or be used on smaller carriers for close air support.

For someone being called an ace, you would think they would try and learn whatever it is they are trying to fly rather than complain about it sucking and having no good points. Incidentally, he admits this on his own, but he is too proud to admit it to Yui, who takes his words at face value. In addition, his feedback for the upcoming test machine would be nearly useless if he can't test the machine in the way it was meant to be used.
A RL Harrier or RL F-35 VTOL can sustain hovering at 0 Km/h speed (as long there's fuel in the tank) i.e. can use helicopter gunship type combat. http://www.answers.com/topic/vertica...ff-and-landing

RL Harrier or RL F-35 VTOL could hover just on top of BETA Tank and under 100 meters and gun down a BETA Tank's rear end.

RL A-10 Thunderbolt with VTOL would be nice.

Last edited by encia; 2012-07-24 at 01:01.
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Old 2012-07-24, 00:22   Link #1411
Trajan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylphic View Post
You missed the point. Yui was correct, the machine is not broken, and it is effective in combat as was demonstrated in Kyoto by a bunch of trainees.
Didn't all but one of them die? Not sure how "effective" that makes it.
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Old 2012-07-24, 00:27   Link #1412
bigdeath
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Quote:
Originally Posted by creb View Post
This thread just confirms my belief that everyone should serve a mandatory term in their nation's military, for more reasons than I care to list.
I'd rather not, being an American that will likely damn me to die in some forgotten corner of the world in a pointless war that really does nothing whether we win or lose (if its even possible to tell which one the outcome is)

If only I could serve my country by working in the defense industry making millions in safety.

But I digress, back on topic:

I except our lead to fall in love with Yui in true Top Gun style. Its going to happen, just you wait and see. She'll make him into a proper Japanese man wiether he likes it or not (and she'll make him like it)
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Last edited by bigdeath; 2012-07-24 at 00:42.
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Old 2012-07-24, 00:30   Link #1413
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by encia View Post
The normal hybrid process doesn't result with the said white baby. There's no mention of IVF...

http://zsobig.hubpages.com/hub/the-mystery-of-genetics

I also would like to add that skin color is believed to be determined by seven different genes. If a woman or a man is of a mixed race, their genes contain a mixture of black and white traits. When they come together, they will have a mixed-race baby.
But occassionally the egg or the sperm can contain genes coding for only one color. If two come together that contain the same color - for example an egg with white and a sperm with also white coding - the child will have a different skin color than their parents - in our example that would result in a white child of black parents


A DNA test would reduce ambiguity.
Not normally happen, esp with blond hair. That is why I keep saying that a DNA test for parenthood would be a good thing. If something like that happened in the US, you would have to back it up with testing to confirm that those are both the parents. Not too many US males are that gullible nowadays. Or the baby could have been switched by mistake.

The Sun didn't offer to pay to test the kid and both parents either. They just ran the story.
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Last edited by orion; 2012-07-24 at 00:41.
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Old 2012-07-24, 00:42   Link #1414
DragoonKain3
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Bah, too much to follow in one general thread. I'm so lost with all the multiple topics of discussion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
I'd expect that Shippers will ship Yuuya and Yui very hard.
Well, outside of Mr. Playboy with Ms. Sweden (or Yuuya + Russian Imouto for the lolicon inclined), there really isn't anything else to ship so far.

I expect Russian Oneesan to come into the triangle though. Maybe not next episode (looks to be Yui-focused), but I can just see it soon after.
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Old 2012-07-24, 00:56   Link #1415
YF19EX
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sylphic View Post
You missed the point. Yui was correct, the machine is not broken, and it is effective in combat as was demonstrated in Kyoto by a bunch of trainees. What's wrong with it is that Yuuya refuses to learn how it was intended to be used.
The Machine is not broken, and can be used by the Japanese based on Japanese training and combat doctrine. And we have seen what that has proven.

Simple matter, is that machines improve and the combat doctrine changes with it. To stick to old and outdated methods of combat and fighting has doomed many military's to failure though out history. How many army's were still running calvary charges with the advent of the machine gun? Still plenty and looked what happen to them. Just no modern Military uses the F-4 in the world. They use 3rd and 4th gen fighters from Euro, Russian or American.

Weapon manipulation, increased efficiency and new methods of deployment should the the item of the day. (I'm starting to sound like Travis Haley) Not running some outdated machine clinging to some nationalistic and outdated way of fighting.

I will give that we have not see US Doctrine in battle against the BETA so their is no real comparison at this point. We have seen Japanese Doctrine and it does not fare so well. There are always new ways and new methods to be found when it comes to fighting. An edge should ways be expolited. If a 3rd or 4th gen TSF has those advantages, you would be stupid to rely on older outdate machinery unless your fighting with the Soviet of Quantity vs Quality. But in this case the BETA have the latter on anything else so Humanity has to focus should be the Quality of its pilots, training and Machinery.

"That's how dad did it, that's how America does it! And its work pretty well for us so far". -T.S.

PS: Although YuixYuuya is probably in the mix. I like Stella better...
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Old 2012-07-24, 01:07   Link #1416
Angrypokstick
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Originally Posted by LystAP View Post
Really? Why were they fighting?
Probably should ask that in the game thread or the Mil tac-geo politic thread if you want the full answer.
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Old 2012-07-24, 01:39   Link #1417
encia
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Originally Posted by YF19EX View Post
The Machine is not broken, and can be used by the Japanese based on Japanese training and combat doctrine. And we have seen what that has proven.

Simple matter, is that machines improve and the combat doctrine changes with it. To stick to old and outdated methods of combat and fighting has doomed many military's to failure though out history. How many army's were still running calvary charges with the advent of the machine gun? Still plenty and looked what happen to them. Just no modern Military uses the F-4 in the world. They use 3rd and 4th gen fighters from Euro, Russian or American.
There are nations still operates F-4
http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-...625-20yai.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by YF19EX View Post
I will give that we have not see US Doctrine in battle against the BETA so their is no real comparison at this point. We have seen Japanese Doctrine and it does not fare so well. There are always new ways and new methods to be found when it comes to fighting. An edge should ways be expolited. If a 3rd or 4th gen TSF has those advantages, you would be stupid to rely on older outdate machinery unless your fighting with the Soviet of Quantity vs Quality. But in this case the BETA have the latter on anything else so Humanity has to focus should be the Quality of its pilots, training and Machinery.
On US Doctrine against the BETA, we have hints from Yuuya's rants.
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Old 2012-07-24, 01:44   Link #1418
FRS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keroko View Post

A the end of episode 3 I assume you mean the somewhat forced, but in no way impolite question asking her if she enjoyed watching the scene? I see no reason for that to warrant the insult it was given. A different wording as well as a proper explanation as to why she was disappointed and how to fix it would have done leagues to better the situation (we've seen in every other social interaction that Yuuyi is a reasonable enough person). But no, "I'm disappointed" was all that was given.

Yeah, if some random new boss comes up to me and tells me "I'm disappointed" in the most offensive tone possible (again, she constantly uses "kisama" when addressing him, which is far from a polite way of addressing someone) and walks of I'd be going "who the hell does that bitch think she is?" too.

Yui fired the first shot, then proceeds to harass him through every means without ever properly explaining why she pulls the crap she does (well, aside from the ever lovely "you're not Japanes enough") to further antagonize him.
Sorry but once again i am not seeing it in the same light as you, Yuuya went arent you impressed by our american superior skills and tech, he was not asking for an evaluation. Sure as i also said myself if Yui gaved more details it may have gone better but i doubt it.

It's the same when he was blaming the TSF spec, yes he is not used to it (even Yui concede the point) but the problem is his attitude, when i am driving a car which i am not used to, i am going to be extra carefull and take it slowly, his reaction ? full throttle full ahead.

I also have to disagree with you on Yuuya rationality, yea he's pretty rational except when you talk about japan or his origin.

So yea Yui is pushing his buttons hard but Yuuya is also busy baiting her, i am amazed as how Yuuya nearly got a free pass for this.
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Old 2012-07-24, 01:55   Link #1419
Enternal
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No. The trainees died because there were more BETAs than they expected. Plus the trainees were clueless (OMG THE BETAs EAT PEOPLE!! NOM NOM NOM). It's not entirely because the machine did not do well but the pilot themselves weren't in a very good situation. Stop saying "hey your comrades all die and therefore Yuuya's assessment is correct". Hell, the machine that came and save Yui. What machine was that from? Did you see how it just made lunch meat out of those BETAs? That's pretty awesome!

Also this isn't a problem between Yuuya and his boss at work. It's a problem between Yuuya and his superior officer in the MILITARY. Man, if the military was as lenient towards him as Yui was, I'm sure many people would be happy.

It's like you're a sniper that is surrounded by the enemy... and you die while blaming that the sniper rifer sucks and that it should have been fully automatic so you can blast those suckers. You were just in a bad situation. It's not the fault of the weapon.
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Old 2012-07-24, 02:24   Link #1420
SABER60069
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I don't think anyone thinks it's completely the machine's fault that the trainees died just that "They're handling it fine" is simply not a good argument considering the results, maybe it's not the machine's fault or maybe if you put a different machine in its place things would be different but the thing is we don't know

The only way the handling fine argument would work if they survived plus we only know what happened with Yui's team and not the whole overall situation.

And you talking about the Takemi? don't think it's exactly fair to compare that with the Fubuki.

Also is it just me who find it ridiculous that in order to pilot a mecha well you need to understand an entire culture just because it's made there?
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