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Old 2011-11-01, 22:11   Link #4441
Eater of All
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldlight View Post
I believe what you're trying to say is that popularity is a major factor for series domination, and that I agree with you on that, but it isn't the only factor necessary for a series to become as dominant as Madoka has become.

My point is, Madoka's domination isn't all completely about popularity, it's a mix of popularity, moe and a dash of some other external factors (e.g. luck of the draw, anti-voting, assassinations). Look at Bakemonogatari and Angel Beats! from last year, those are arguably very popular shows and yet their strongest characters fell in surprise upsets to relatively dark horse characters from less popular shows.
Yep, that's what I'm trying to say. And the popularity factor works at several angles too: there will, of course, be series devotees who support the series with little regards to character (the proportion of this group increases with the decrease of general voters, which is why many here have turned to criticizing the IP-bans), there will be a stronger faction capable of employing more tactics (not necessarily a "bad" thing, but nonetheless it helps), there will be ill-informed voters who only know/vote the popular series and not the less popular series, etc.

And the popularity factor isn't even the only source of resentment from Madoka domination. Overfunk has been arguing that series domination creates predictability. Intraseries matches are usually very predictable. There are arguments that series domination stifles competition, and that all characters of a series draw from the same base, and therefore fighting each one is almost equivalent to fighting the same one.

To clarify, I do acknowledge though that there are people who vote based on character, and not from any of the aforementioned effects. Just trying to summarize why I (and probably others) don't like this Madoka domination very much.
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Old 2011-11-01, 22:22   Link #4442
Kyuu
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I'll be very curious about next year's results, as there is already a large, varied field of characters to choose from. More so than this year's edition. And it hasn't even reached the midway point of the "fiscal calendar" (July-June).
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Old 2011-11-01, 22:43   Link #4443
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Yes. Loli-Ilya will win this time.
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Old 2011-11-01, 23:46   Link #4444
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I just realized this, but I don't remember a class roll like we've usually get prior to the block finals.

Food for thought.
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Old 2011-11-02, 05:59   Link #4445
ahelo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
I prefer Series Domination over Character Domination.
Are you serious?

JSaimoe is Snipe Moe, Character Domination almost always fail (unless the people are on their side aka. Azunyan). Last year people expected a Kanade, Mikoto and Hinagiku domination and none of the three even made Top 8. In turn though that's what make Character Domination in Saimoe fun; unlike Series Domination.

Series Domination is dullness. Its fun to see series domination fail (K-ON in '09, Saki in '09 and '10, HnG in every year its in) but do you seriously have fun seeing who wins between Mami and Madoka? I'll refer you to Saimoe 2008, a year turning out to be even better than this year. CLANNAD had way too many representatives for its own good, killing variety. Lucky Star ended up sucking the finals with its inter-twin-competition. Sure I like a lot of CLANNAD characters and Lucky Star Characters; hell I love all 5 Puella Magis. But entertainment is killed; which is something I don't like.

I didn't really wanna see Kyouko obliterating Kyouko, or Ika trying her hardest only to fail in the hands of Mami. If I were to decide the places of the Top 8, I'd put all Puella Magis in one side so they can have their own intra-series til the finals. But that's just me.

Also don't confuse JSaimoe with ISML. JSaimoe doesn't appreciate character domination as much as ISML does.
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Old 2011-11-02, 06:45   Link #4446
zato_1one
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Many people just love to see dominance series get crushed. That's a fact because haters gonna hate.

I have to admit. It's very fun to see people butthurt really hard.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TnAdct1 View Post
You hit the nail on the head as to another big problem with this tournament: the whole "Japan only" aspect that the tournament is having. Had other countries been allowed to take part in this tournament, then, even if Madoka Magica still has at least one person in the quarter-finals, the results would likely be much different (for one thing, the KyoAni titles would have done much better than what actually happened in the tournament). Of course, that could also mean more support for the unerdogs of the tournament, Strike Witches.
Huh? Without the IP Ban do you even think the like of Strike Witch can come this far? More underdog support? Yes, may be, but it's useless anyway because it will have even more support for powerhouse series too.
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Old 2011-11-02, 07:25   Link #4447
Liddo-kun
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Quote:
Madoka is an overrated show anyway, and its terrible fanbase is reflective of that.
@antigone

I'm a fan of both Madoka and Ika.
Will vote only Madoka (if I'm not I.P banned), not everyone from PMMM.

Would have preferred to see Madoka in a J-Saimoe environment similar to the one in 2006 and 2007, when there's less I.P bans and votes easily go to 1000+. It would be a greater achievement for her if she emerge as champ in that kind of environment.

Spoiler for Memories of Saimoe 2007:


But it can't be helped. J-Saimoe has a smaller voting population now.
Well, if Madoka wins this whole thing I guess a win is still a win.

Last edited by Liddo-kun; 2011-11-02 at 08:32.
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Old 2011-11-02, 08:35   Link #4448
hinakatbklyn
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It looks like there may be enough fakes on Kyouko's side for Erica to win the match..... but with 30 minutes still remaining, Kyouko still has time to increase her lead. For once, I want to see a PMMM keep her lead (only Kyouko)
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Old 2011-11-02, 08:46   Link #4449
Coldlight
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Reinforcements have arrived. Kyouko's ending rush has begun.
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Old 2011-11-02, 08:55   Link #4450
Demi.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zato_1one View Post


Huh? Without the IP Ban do you even think the like of Strike Witch can come this far? More underdog support? Yes, may be, but it's useless anyway because it will have even more support for powerhouse series too.
The foreign voters always gave the underdogs a helping hand. Unlike ISML, the foreign voters that Japan banned seemed very knowledgeable of obscure anime. Looking back, Japan always had incredible bias towards one or two series every year in Saimoe. Mainly because Saimoe is nothing more than a series faction war to them...Although what is considered the underdog in Japan may not be considered one in other countries...but I digress.
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Old 2011-11-02, 08:58   Link #4451
Triple_R
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahelo View Post
Are you serious?
Yes, I'm serious.


Quote:

JSaimoe is Snipe Moe, Character Domination almost always fail (unless the people are on their side aka. Azunyan). Last year people expected a Kanade, Mikoto and Hinagiku domination and none of the three even made Top 8. In turn though that's what make Character Domination in Saimoe fun; unlike Series Domination.
But that's not true Character Domination. That's Character Domination averted. It's an entirely different feel. True Character Domination is what we're seeing right now in ISML with Kanade. With precious few exceptions, Kanade's matches aren't even remotely close, whereas Kyouko vs. Kuroneko, Madoka vs. Sayaka, and Mami vs. Ika were at least all close matches.

Three closes matches and one upset in the quarterfinals. In my view, that's a very good quarterfinals.

I could perhaps see Series Domination being a real problem if the resistance to that weren't even able to make it interesting (like most Kanade matches ), but at least Kuroneko and Ika did in fact make things interesting.


Quote:

Series Domination is dullness.
Series Domination may makes things more predictable, but I don't see how that's significantly different than Character Domination.


Quote:
Its fun to see series domination fail (K-ON in '09, Saki in '09 and '10, HnG in every year its in)
Not necessarily if you're a fan of that series. Also, seeing series domination fail year and year after year can itself become predictable and "ho hum" over time, in my opinion.

Now, for a change, we have a series that actually is dominating. Possibly for the first time ever (I don't know the full history of Saimoe, so I don't know if what Madoka Magica is pulling off this year is totally unprecedented), we're seeing true Series Domination. Simply to see a show succeed at something that other shows failed at time after time after time is interesting to me.


Quote:
but do you seriously have fun seeing who wins between Mami and Madoka?
I have fun knowing that I like both girls, and no matter who wins, I'll be happy with the outcome. Is it wrong to find no-lose scenarios pleasant?


Quote:
I'll refer you to Saimoe 2008, a year turning out to be even better than this year. CLANNAD had way too many representatives for its own good, killing variety.
Why is it bad for Clannad to have a lot of representatives? Doesn't that simply reflect well on the show, and how its held in esteem by moe fans?

As for "killing variety", I just found this site. Looks like plenty of variety of character types and anime shows represented to me.


Quote:
Lucky Star ended up sucking the finals with its inter-twin-competition. Sure I like a lot of CLANNAD characters and Lucky Star Characters; hell I love all 5 Puella Magis.
If you love all 5 Puella Magis, why not be happy for the success of four of them?


If the 5 Peulla Magis were in five different shows, would you find them any less moe?

If not, then the fact that they're in the same series should be inconsequential to you, except perhaps making their victories even more pleasing if you happen to also love the series that they're in.

If so, then you're basically saying that being in a certain series ups a character's moe value, which would obviously legitimize at least some degree of series favoritism.


Quote:
But entertainment is killed; which is something I don't like.
Why should entertainment be killed for you if girls you love are winning in a moe competition?

That honestly seems a bit weird to me.

Is unpredictability really the only joy that some people get out of a moe competition?

You don't get joy simply out of seeing girls you love do well?

Besides, and as I argued before, if averting domination is how things typically go down in Saimoe, then successful domination is atypical and hence, in a way, refreshing.

In my opinion, at least.
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Last edited by Triple_R; 2011-11-02 at 09:24.
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:06   Link #4452
frustra
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Arrow

Kyouko won.
http://mig380.chez-alice.fr/up0/file/u1_004751.txt
http://mig380.chez-alice.fr/up0/file/u1_004752.txt

Sf1
1 509 Sakura Kyouko @ Puella Magi Madoka ☆ Magica
2 334 Erica Hartmann @ Strike Witches 2
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Last edited by frustra; 2011-11-02 at 09:08. Reason: confirmed.
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:06   Link #4453
Hachiko
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Confirmed! Graphic forthcoming.

Here it is:

Spoiler for SF1 graphic:


Onward to the match that will really determine who takes the crown.
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:10   Link #4454
Team Rocket Elite
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Yesterday's Result:

Erica Hartmann - 304
Sakura Kyouko - 509

A Puella Magi winner is not guaranteed. All three remaining characters are from Madoka Magica. I suppose Erica never really had a chance at beating Kyouko and doesn't get close to doing so. Kyouko will wait for the winner between Madoka and Mami in the final match of the tournament.

Today's match: Kaname Madoka vs Tomoe Mami

It's time for another Puella Magi to fall. There's not enough space for all of them to advance anymore. Fighting to meet Kyouko in the finals are Madoka and Mami. For the first four rounds, Madoka and Mami just stomped all over their opponents. In Round 5, Madoka struggled a bit with defeating a fellow Puella Magi. Mami also had some trouble with Ika Musume. Madoka hasn't really had very high vote totals but she hasn't really needed high vote totals either. Mami has always had tons of votes. Madoka should have been a clear favourite over Sayaka but let Sayaka get pretty close anyways. Madoka's position in the Madoka hierarchy isn't as high over Mami as it was over Sayaka. If she does like she did against Sayaka, I think Mami has a real chance to win here.

Vote: Tomoe Mami
Prediction: Tomoe Mami
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:14   Link #4455
Demi.
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And thus Saimoe is finally over. Good riddance.
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:19   Link #4456
abc0716
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Unhappy

Ouch, it's like rubbing salt on the wound.

And now this year's tournament officially becomes the second Dark Age on AST history.
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:20   Link #4457
Triple_R
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Congrats to Kyouko!
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:25   Link #4458
RJ TAYLER
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Game Over Player Two!

Well the Black Devil falls just one hurdle too high for her to soar. The White Devil reigns supreme after all. Just a couple of 'intra-club' fixtures on the list to go now, thankfully.

Today's match is for the ANNE BOLEYN Trophy btw!

I will leave you with this thought, as this is my fiftieth post in this year's tournament, remember the old axiom of "This year's rooster is next year's feather duster" well the PMMM gang just got a hell of a target painted on their backs for next year {where I expect them all to do as well as K-On! did this year}.

Roll on 2012, I hope the draw is not as skewed for you.

SAIMOE: WHERE TOO MUCH BUTTHURT IS NEVER ENOUGH
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:25   Link #4459
Hachiko
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My Odds Today...

11/03: Semi Final 2

Madoka Kaname @ Puella Magi Madoka Magica: <<鹿目まどか@魔法少女まどか☆マギカ>> 5-1
Mami Tomoe @ Puella Magi Madoka Magica: <<巴マミ@魔法少女まどか☆マギカ>> EVEN

BoBA Predicts: Mami <=100
Over/Under: 750
Over


As much as it pains me to say this...I blame Charlotte for triggering the meme that influences the 2ch voters with their decision.
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Old 2011-11-02, 09:29   Link #4460
stormtrooper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ TAYLER View Post
I will leave you with this thought, as this is my fiftieth post in this year's tournament, remember the old axiom of "This year's rooster is next year's feather duster" well the PMMM gang just got a hell of a target painted on their backs for next year {where I expect them all to do as well as K-On! did this year}.

Roll on 2012, I hope the draw is not as skewed for you.

SAIMOE: WHERE TOO MUCH BUTTHURT IS NEVER ENOUGH
All eyes are on them since they are the only ones left. Look out how they will be treated next year.
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