AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-05-26, 01:29   Link #2301
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
This may be the first time when I felt that my lack of knowledge on mahjong was a significant hindrance to me in enjoying a Saki episode.

With most Saki mahjong episodes, there's a certain sense of flow, or the strategy is simple enough (i.e. "Don't let Saki get Kans") that I can follow and sort of "feel" the match even though I know little about mahjong. But in this episode, it's hard for me to pick out any rhyme or reason for which player is dominating from one hand to the next. Well, I know that this "Key" based power seems to trump all for hands its in play for, but other than that, it almost seems random to me which character trumps which in any given hand.


With the final episode of Achiga-hen, the mahjong superpowers at play are often so intricate, so finely detailed, and combining in ways so complex and/or specific, that I found it very hard to follow the match. I just didn't feel any flow to the match at all.


I also have some misgivings about how the match ended:

1. So much for big, bad Shiraitodai. Awai is indeed the second coming of Touka Ryuumonbuchi (it's funny how Awai's voice, appearance, and playing style, even remind me of Touka). Vince McMahon would be facepalming hard over this handling of the big, bad "monster heel" Shiraitodai. Having the mighty Shiraitodai get defeated before the finals makes them seem far less of an imposing threat to Kiyosumi. The whole Miyanaga vs. Miyanaga plot now takes a backseat to Nodoka vs. her former friends. A friendly rivalry is nice and all, but it doesn't have the great, raw intensity to it of siblings at war, one leading plucky underdogs vs. the other leading the fearsome two-time defending champs. That's a much more compelling narrative than underdog vs. underdog, imo. Very questionable plot shift here, imo.

2. I'm not sure how I feel about Shizuno's new power here. I always saw her as a "badass normal", who's success comes through a refusal to give in no matter what. I found that a very nice characterization for her.


But there are some positives here. All of the special moves are accompanied by glorious flashy "attack" animation and/or very nice BGM. The seiyu work is strong, and the characters are largely interesting, well-developed, and likeable.

Still, I wasn't all that fond of this episode on the whole. In fairness, much of that is due to my own lack of knowledge about mahjong, so some of it is my own fault in a sense.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 01:31   Link #2302
Scarletknive
Meister
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Pssh. It was flat out obvious anyways.
Not for those who did not read the main manga... and only looks at the preview shown in the last episode of the Saki anime (Dated some years ago.).
__________________
Scarletknive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 01:33   Link #2303
Archaeon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Pssh. It was flat out obvious anyways.
how is it obvious when i never read the original saki manga both the kiyosumi and achiga

anyone here feel bad for shindouji and senriyama?

i'm going to miss toki-ryuuka and himeko-mairu

i want saki ova on shindouji,senriyama,shiraitodai like how the normal life there look like

now, waiting for kiyosumi, the real main characters to crush everyone

Last edited by Archaeon; 2013-05-26 at 01:44.
Archaeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 02:03   Link #2304
Scarletknive
Meister
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
how is it obvious when i never read the original saki manga both the kiyosumi and achiga

anyone here feel bad for shindouji and senriyama?

i'm going to miss toki-ryuuka and himeko-mairu

i want saki ova on shindouji,senriyama,shiraitodai like how the normal life there look like

now, waiting for kiyosumi, the real main characters to crush everyone
You are not the only one who will feel bad for them... (I do... that point difference...)

You can always rewatch if you have free time. (I am not free due to exams but when I do, I will check NicoNico Douga for videos.)

We all want to have an OVA... But...
__________________
Scarletknive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 02:54   Link #2305
Archaeon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
I LOL when Awai apologize to Teru.

is the friend that subara mention that kiyosumi taco?they know each other?
Archaeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 03:27   Link #2306
Scarletknive
Meister
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
I LOL when Awai apologize to Teru.

is the friend that subara mention that kiyosumi taco?they know each other?
I think the answer to that question will have to wait till 2014...
__________________
Scarletknive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 03:39   Link #2307
Archaeon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
where's the manga now?are they still at first player or second of semi? i really hope next season zenkoku cover both the quarter and semi seeing how i already got spoil on the quarter result, waiting for a year for something i already know the result is a bit of torture

overall,i enjoy achiga except for the spoiler in side b result

some of my favorite moments are when kuro win over teru,arata closing gap on shiraitodai,mairu ignore cheap win and go for baiman tsumo and finally when achiga first met saki

however, non of them will be as epic as saki victory over koromo in episode 19 first season
Archaeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 04:41   Link #2308
Scarletknive
Meister
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
where's the manga now?are they still at first player or second of semi? i really hope next season zenkoku cover both the quarter and semi seeing how i already got spoil on the quarter result, waiting for a year for something i already know the result is a bit of torture

overall,i enjoy achiga except for the spoiler in side b result

some of my favorite moments are when kuro win over teru,arata closing gap on shiraitodai,mairu ignore cheap win and go for baiman tsumo and finally when achiga first met saki

however, non of them will be as epic as saki victory over koromo in episode 19 first season
Go to the manga thread (Link below.) if you want.

http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...91#post4697191

The spoiler is a no-choice. (The story cannot backtrack, and without it, I think it will feel weird.)
__________________
Scarletknive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 04:55   Link #2309
night_sentinel
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Earth
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
where's the manga now?are they still at first player or second of semi? i really hope next season zenkoku cover both the quarter and semi seeing how i already got spoil on the quarter result, waiting for a year for something i already know the result is a bit of torture

overall,i enjoy achiga except for the spoiler in side b result

some of my favorite moments are when kuro win over teru,arata closing gap on shiraitodai,mairu ignore cheap win and go for baiman tsumo and finally when achiga first met saki

however, non of them will be as epic as saki victory over koromo in episode 19 first season
Scarletknive, I think we can safely reveal where the manga is currently at without spoiling anything. It is, after all, just how much the story has progressed.

For those who want to know, the main manga is at the Vanguard or the First match of the Semi-final. Yes. I know, the story is a bit slow. But, in defense of Ritz she did get hospitalized and she was writing Achiga-hen as well, so maybe the story will pick up now.

And yeah. I agree Saki vs. Koromo vs. Yumi vs. Kana is a very hard to top as a match. Still, even if Achiga has no match that can top it, its still a nice ride. At the very least, it helped with the pangs of waiting that the main manga is putting me through.
night_sentinel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 06:27   Link #2310
Myssa Rei
Moderate Haruhiist
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Metro Manila, Philippines
Age: 33
Send a message via ICQ to Myssa Rei Send a message via Yahoo to Myssa Rei
Since it's over, I have to mention something that was plainly obvious to manga-readers immediately: Ryuuka's heatvision was an anime-only addition.

More than a few think that it's a GOOD change though, as it gives her the chance to shine independent of her girlfriend's superpower contribution. Compared to the manga, where Ryuuka is TOTALLY dependent on Toki's futuresight.
__________________
Myssa Rei is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 06:55   Link #2311
Archaeon
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by night_sentinel View Post
Scarletknive, I think we can safely reveal where the manga is currently at without spoiling anything. It is, after all, just how much the story has progressed.

For those who want to know, the main manga is at the Vanguard or the First match of the Semi-final. Yes. I know, the story is a bit slow. But, in defense of Ritz she did get hospitalized and she was writing Achiga-hen as well, so maybe the story will pick up now.

And yeah. I agree Saki vs. Koromo vs. Yumi vs. Kana is a very hard to top as a match. Still, even if Achiga has no match that can top it, its still a nice ride. At the very least, it helped with the pangs of waiting that the main manga is putting me through.
i didn't know ritz is female. got picture of her?
Archaeon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 07:33   Link #2312
Benigmatica
Deadpan Rambler
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Send a message via Yahoo to Benigmatica
Spoiler for Episode 16:
__________________
Benigmatica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 07:50   Link #2313
einhorn303
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Age: 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Since it's over, I have to mention something that was plainly obvious to manga-readers immediately: Ryuuka's heatvision was an anime-only addition.

More than a few think that it's a GOOD change though, as it gives her the chance to shine independent of her girlfriend's superpower contribution. Compared to the manga, where Ryuuka is TOTALLY dependent on Toki's futuresight.
The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is: why not use it from the start?
__________________
Avatar: Helma Lennartz from Strike Witches, art by Shimada Humikane (島田 フミカネ).
einhorn303 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 08:13   Link #2314
Scarletknive
Meister
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by einhorn303 View Post
The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is: why not use it from the start?
Because the ability is a double edged sword since Toki "said" she should not overdo it, which lead to a possibility that using it from the start to the end will put a big strain on her... (This is fairly new to manga readers and anime watchers as it is the only skill that is used in only 1 episode, where you might not get the reason.)
__________________
Scarletknive is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 13:13   Link #2315
King-Slayer
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaeon View Post
i didn't know ritz is female. got picture of her?
Nobody has a real picture of her. There are those Ritz doujins though made by a friend.

Anyhow I know it spoiled the b semi's but for someone who follows both I just enjoyed getting a sneak preview of it animated and it leads me to believe that the Zenkoku will also add the semis. Oh yes and I thought Awai's VA was super cute when she apologized to Teru.
King-Slayer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 15:08   Link #2316
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scarletknive View Post
Because the ability is a double edged sword since Toki "said" she should not overdo it, which lead to a possibility that using it from the start to the end will put a big strain on her... (This is fairly new to manga readers and anime watchers as it is the only skill that is used in only 1 episode, where you might not get the reason.)
I do like the addition of Ryuuka's power in the end but it is clearly something shoved in and improvised after the fact with little thought towards real consistency. Prior to discovering her Toki-connection power in the previous episode, Ryuuka was portrayed at a complete loss without doing anything at all. Strain or not, if Ryuuka hypothetically wasn't willing to use her ability at that point it's as good as if she didn't have it at all (which, of course, she didn't until this episode).

The one good thing about the addition of the ability is that it gives us some basis for reconstructing Ryuuka's respectability and strength as an independent mahjong player. It hardly changes a thing as for her performance/portrayal within the match itself, though.

Anyway, my beef with the Captain's match is that generally, mahjong in Saki is portrayed as an interplay between skill and abilities, where badass normals well-versed in the technical/traditional basis of mahjong face off against monsters, and actually manage to hold their ground (if rarely prevail). The combination of the determination shown by the badass normal players as well as the character development or genuine strength of the supernatural ones in the face of such unexpected resistance combines to make all parties likeable and sympathetic. However, in this match, technical skill or strategic thinking were rarely shown, with most of the rare instances actually backfiring, leaving the overall effect nothing but a carnival of dumb hax.

The way the match basically went like this: Himeko was given an autowin ability which was limited to the rounds which Mairu successful reserved. Ryuuka was given an autowin ability which had a limited number of uses. Meanwhile Awai was given an autowin ability which, while weaker than the others, she could spam at will. Outside of those autowin abilities, all of those players, including Shizu, were pretty much portrayed as being able to do nothing at all.

The entire first 4/5ths of the match could basically be summed up as nothing but those three spamming those autowins. Then, Shizu was given an authorial plothax ability which was able to cancel out the autowin abilities to varying degrees (in particular Awai's). However, rather than the resulting playing field being open enough to give any of the other players a chance to show their actual skills, the development came late enough to be in effect only really for two rounds. Furthermore, in the space of those two rounds, rather than going out of their way to show Shizu demonstrating any actual skill or tactical thinking, the overall effect was "lol intuition" and "everybody else's abilities cancelled -> Shizu's autowin".

Basically, after the whole ordeal of the match you come out with none of the players looking good, and most of them actually looking like shit. So much for Awai's reputation and monster status, right? With all of their individual efforts coming to nothing or backfiring, Ryuuka and Himeko appeared, for all intents and purposes, completely dependent on their partners' skills. And finally Shizu doing nothing the whole match, winning three measly hands worth ~14000 points, coming out negative, and still somehow coming out first due to plothax.


Anyway, Ryuuka's ability helps a tiny bit. She really was the worst treated in the original version, and the addition at least reflects an awareness of some of the issues with how the match was executed. Still, though, it was definitely a disappointment and doesn't stand a chance of competing against the Saki franchise's best (including some of what's going on in the mainline manga right now; I have to say, if we get that far (and I do think we will), Zenkoku-hen will kick ass).
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 30/5 :: Hanayamata 30/5 :: Locodol 80/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 21:36   Link #2317
Master_Yoma
Nekokota Festival
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lost in the Fairy Forest
Very nice ending and Takakamo sounding perverted at end was just the best
__________________
Master_Yoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-26, 23:07   Link #2318
kniteowl
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Can some clarify the Kazoue Yakuman for me this episode?

It was a

Concealed Flush = 6 han
Concealed Large Straight = 2 Han
2 Red Dora = 2 han
Pin-fu = 1 Han
Concealed Tsumo = 1 Han


that's 12 Han out of 14 where were the other 2 han? They didn't show the Dora indicator in the anime episode but if it was any of the dots between 3 and 5 that would add it up I guess. Well I guess she also could've Riichi & ippatsu but they never show that either.
__________________
kniteowl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-27, 00:50   Link #2319
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by kniteowl View Post
Can some clarify the Kazoue Yakuman for me this episode?

It was a

Concealed Flush = 6 han
Concealed Large Straight = 2 Han
2 Red Dora = 2 han
Pin-fu = 1 Han
Concealed Tsumo = 1 Han


that's 12 Han out of 14 where were the other 2 han? They didn't show the Dora indicator in the anime episode but if it was any of the dots between 3 and 5 that would add it up I guess. Well I guess she also could've Riichi & ippatsu but they never show that either.
The dora was 4pin. I dunno when it might've been shown precisely in the anime but in the manga you can see the indicator a couple pages into the round.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 30/5 :: Hanayamata 30/5 :: Locodol 80/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-05-27, 02:39   Link #2320
Triple_R
Center Attraction
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Newfoundland, Canada
Age: 33
Send a message via AIM to Triple_R
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post

Basically, after the whole ordeal of the match you come out with none of the players looking good, and most of them actually looking like shit. So much for Awai's reputation and monster status, right?
It's not just Awai. It's the entire Shiraitodai mahjong team, with the obvious exception of Teru. Collectively, the other four members, were almost -100,000 points.

If this anime happened in the real world, this would be the news report the next day:


Shiraitodai Suffers Unprecedented Collapse!
Achiga New Favorite to Win it All?

In one of the most monumental collapses in the history of professional sports, let alone mahjong, the Shiraitodai Girls mahjong team somehow managed to blow a lead of over 115,000 points to just barely finish 2nd.

"I have never seen anything like it before." said former Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, "And believe me, I've seen some wild comebacks!"

Nonetheless, Koizumi had words of praise for Teru Miyanaga.

"In spite of her team's troubles, Teru was by far the most dominant player out there today." Koizumi stated, beaming with confidence, "I'm sure she'll make a fine Prime Minister one day."

If so, this lost might be a good learning experience for Miyanaga-san.

"I still believe in this team." Teru stated, while addressing the press, "I'm confident we will bounce back in the finals."

But nobody could feel more confident right now than the Achiga girls team.

"I'm very impressed and moved by what my girls achieved today." stated Coach Harue Akado, "They've worked so hard to get this far, and they all played very solid mahjong in every hand."

That may indeed be the secret to Achiga's success, and it may pave their road to victory in the finals. While Achiga has no elite players on the level of Teru Miyanaga, they also seem to have no weak links. Should Achiga go on to success in the finals, their solid team formation may become the model for future girls mahjong teams.

"They're a very well-constructed team." said noted mahjong star Nodoka Haramura, representing Kiyosumi in this year's nationals, "I went to school with many of them myself. I'm happy to see them do well, though I do have confidence in my own team's abilities to win, of course."

Kiyosumi is also considered one of the top contenders in this year's mahjong nationals. These Nationals' have certainly not been short of surprises!

But at this point, nobody would be surprised if Shiraitodai lost in the finals.

"Their aura of invincibility is gone." stated pro mahjong player Yasuko Fujita, "While Teru is still a frightening force to be reckoned with, the rest of her team looked very ordinary out there today. The key to defeating Shiraitodai is clear - Just survive Teru, and you have a chance."

That's what Shiraitodai's opponents will be aiming for in the finals. It will be interesting to see if they succeed or not.

------------------------------------------------------------


I hope people enjoyed reading this slightly satirical take on how the news media would be reporting on this match in the real world.
__________________
Triple_R is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
mahjong, nopan, seinen, sport, yuri

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:29.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.