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Old 2012-05-22, 14:58   Link #781
night_sentinel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2
So, after the long discussion, after many thought threw in, lets conclude the reasons behind 1-pin discarded that... it was Yasufuku's mistake due to the lack of experience / mistake in reading the game flow.
From what I can gather, the right discard for Yasufuku is the 9 pin. But, playing the 1-pin isn't the most stupidest move since to Yasufuku's knowledge its safe due to a player discarding it before and well Ryuuka's 4 pin discard.

This is a bit farfetched but what are the chances that Ryuuka discarded that 4-pin intentionally to help/test Achiga. Its shown that Ryuuka was rooting for Achiga for a bit and Senriyama likes them more than their other opponents in the quarter finals.

I don't really have anything to base it on except that Ryuuka's sole pin discard was her 4-pin and before drawing it she observed that Shizuno hasn't given up yet. I don't think Ryuuka's tile is shown in the anime or in the manga...

Of course its probably more likely that its just coincidence....

Last edited by night_sentinel; 2012-05-22 at 15:12.
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Old 2012-05-22, 17:22   Link #782
RegalStar
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It's coincidence probably. I think Senriyama's stance in the entire matter was just "so she's in tenpai. Who cares. It's not like I'll lose first place even if I deal into a yakuman", so she probably just tsumo-kiri'd a useless tile.

Basically the moral of the story (to mahjong-playing folks) is: keep placement in mind when deciding how to move, and when you need to defend, don't do it half-heartedly.
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Old 2012-05-22, 17:39   Link #783
Sumeragi
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What I hope to see in the future:

Spoiler for The Ultimate Match:
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Old 2012-05-22, 17:40   Link #784
Triple_R
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A very knowledgeable Saki fan told me that the manga really hasn't shed much light on what's caused the Saki/Teru sister estrangement, and so asked me to put forward my two theories on what caused it.

So I decided that I'd go ahead and do it here.


Theory 1: This one is fairly obvious. A snap idea that I think any Detective looking into this family situation would think of himself/herself. "The family split in half, right? Saki lives with her father, Teru left with her mother. Saki and Teru took different sides of a heated dispute between their parents, and Teru resents her sister for that."

If this Theory is correct, then how sympathetic Teru is will be tied to how sympathetic Saki's mom is (as opposed to how sympathetic Saki's dad is).

This theory might be what the narrative goes with if they just want something quick and easy and understandable/reasonably sympathetic for both sides. But Theory 2 is the one that fits the mahjong-focus of the show better.


Theory 2: Recall how Saki said she started intentionally aiming for "plus/minus zero" scores because her family would get mad when she won mahjong matches.

Well, perhaps the main family member who got mad was Teru. Teru passionately loved mahjong, and disliked how Saki seemed to be defeating her by pure luck (imagine Teru being Nodoka-esque in how these vaguely supernatural mahjong-superpowers come off to her). Plus perhaps Teru felt some shame in losing to the "younger sister".

So Teru started training hard at mahjong so that she'd start winning matches. Just when Teru felt she had trained well-enough to win legit... Saki decides to start doing the "plus/minus zero" thing, intentionally losing matches. Teru becomes very irritated and annoyed at this (again, similar to how Nodoka responded to Saki once intentionally losing to Tacos to make Tacos feel better).

Teru probably had an argument with Saki over it. Saki probably explained that she didn't like hurting her sister by winning these matches (the heartfelt truth, but a reason that would only annoy Teru even more).

Teru responded in anger. She probably eventually said something like "No sister of mine would intentionally lose at mahjong!"

But Saki kept doing it... so true to her word, Teru stopped considering Saki her sister.

Saki never broke the bad habit of "plus/minus zero" scores before her and Teru became separated, and Teru never forgave her for it.

However, Teru became more determined than ever to become the world's best mahjong player to overcome this annoying history within her own family when it came to mahjong.

Personally, I think this would make Teru somewhat sympathetic. And what I like about this theory is that...

1) It's very mahjong-centric, fitting with the broader narrative itself.

2) If Saki was to play seriously against Teru and win, then that would logically overcome exactly why Teru became estranged from Saki in the first place. It would also make more sense out of why Saki wants so badly to play her sister at mahjong, and believes mahjong can bring them back together. Saki thinks that if she plays her sister seriously that this can be Saki's way of apologizing to her sister for throwing all those matches when they played together as a family.


So those are my two theories. Any thoughts, my fellow Saki fans?
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Old 2012-05-22, 17:49   Link #785
Sumeragi
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I say it's a mixture of the two.
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Old 2012-05-22, 18:04   Link #786
Kyuu
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
What I hope to see in the future:

Spoiler for The Ultimate Match:
So... Saki done in Legend of Koizumi style. Needs moar Rising Suns!
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Old 2012-05-22, 19:24   Link #787
Scarletknive
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marina2 View Post
That was before she changed her aim for winning hand for two times.

Not sure if other players at table beside Ryuuka noticed that while they were playing but if Yasufuku did notice this, she might thought Shizu couldn't be in tenpai for other winning hand and dared to discard that 1-pin.

Changing the aim for winning hand for many times + Seven pairs hand are uncommon anyway.

So, after the long discussion, after many thought threw in, lets conclude the reasons behind 1-pin discarded that... it was Yasufuku's mistake due to the lack of experience / mistake in reading the game flow.
Explanation: Look at the tile on the pond above. Now then, you never see Shizuno changed her wait. So lets assume I am Yasufuku having the 1 pin. The 1 pin and 4 pin are out already. Using suji, all of them does not have 2 pin or 3 pin, hence I will throw the 1 pin. Also, Shizuno did not riichi, making the opponent thought that she is not in tenpai yet.(Which makes Betaori a useless defense skill.) 7 pairs is a hard wait since you are basically waiting on a single wait. Shizuno is the one who cause the game flow going haywire.(If you remember she is on a 7 pair wait on a sole 1 pin.), yet when her left throws 1 pin nothing happens. But when her other side throws 1 pin, ron happens. And she did not change her hand at all...)

Now, if you use Kyuu's SS as an example of this case, the 1 pin was out a lot of times, which rules out one possibility of him waiting on a 2 sided wait or single wait. Also, furiten happens if you riichi and did not ron off the player who throw your winning tile, which rules off the wait on 2 pin 3 pin, but that also leaves a possibility of a closed wait.(3 pin 5 pin closed wait on 4 pin.) The guy used suji to check Kyuu's hand, but apparently he did not use it wisely as he IS waiting on a closed wait.( As I predicted correctly.)

Shizuno is one of those who will use suji to a useful use...(Opponent will confuse. )


Lesson: Believe in suji, and you gonna get owned...(well, occasionally.), but still believe in suji if its riichi. Betaori is also good against riichi.
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Last edited by Scarletknive; 2012-05-22 at 20:08.
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Old 2012-05-22, 21:03   Link #788
Myssa Rei
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
*snips*
While this is more of a manga thing than anything, the fact that we'll be seeing Teru in-show a few weeks makes in a little relevant.

In a mahjong-centric narrative, the second instance might make more sense, except for the fact that every time Saki talks about her sister in both the first anime and the manga (with reference to her playing style) suggests the opposite, that Teru was dominating even then (see every time Saki encounters a "monster", where she reacts "It's like that time with my sister!").

Indeed, some of the folk in the manga thread think that Saki's playing style, and her outlook with regards to the moves of her opponents (she OVER-estimates, rather than under-estimates, as seen with when she she goes against Yumi), was shaped by being constantly pitted against Teru.
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Old 2012-05-22, 21:25   Link #789
Kyuu
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I remember trying to read this some months ago. I didn't understand squat.

http://osamuko.com/2009/02/18/umaike...aori-and-suji/

It took that example I gave to finally realize: "Holy crap. I can use this 'suji' knowledge as an offensive weapon." Of course, when there's an offense, there's a defense to respond to it; and that defense is mapped out right in that guide.
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Old 2012-05-22, 21:32   Link #790
Kyuu
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I remember trying to read this some months ago. I didn't understand squat.

http://osamuko.com/2009/02/18/umaike...aori-and-suji/

It took that example I gave to finally realize: "Holy crap. I can use this 'suji' knowledge as an offensive weapon." Of course, when there's an offense, there's a defense to respond to it; and that defense is mapped out right in that guide.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
While this is more of a manga thing than anything, the fact that we'll be seeing Teru in-show a few weeks makes in a little relevant.

In a mahjong-centric narrative, the second instance might make more sense, except for the fact that every time Saki talks about her sister in both the first anime and the manga (with reference to her playing style) suggests the opposite, that Teru was dominating even then (see every time Saki encounters a "monster", where she reacts "It's like that time with my sister!").

Indeed, some of the folk in the manga thread think that Saki's playing style, and her outlook with regards to the moves of her opponents (she OVER-estimates, rather than under-estimates, as seen with when she she goes against Yumi), was shaped by being constantly pitted against Teru.
With the Miyanaga sisters... being... well... sisters. It is quite natural to consider how their play-styles go against each other.

In fact, I've kinda considered thinking about how Kuro and Yuu developed together. Kuro with her dora magnet, and Yuu being the heat seeker.

Anyways. Looking @ Triple's post, with the two "theories" labeled. Most definitely a combination of the two. Mix mahjong with a straining family relationship. Oh boy. Y'can imagine the kind of fights they've had - just on the mahjong table. The +/- 0 thing is most definitely Saki's statement saying: "OK, I've had it. I'm sick of fighting."

In the case of sibling fights, I have a history with my own sister; and now, I just try to make it a point not to fight anymore.

As for Saki's weaponized version of rinshan... I'm gonna go out on a limb by saying -- that's Saki's response to Teru's tendency to "go on a roll and win multiple hands in a row". Utilizing the dead wall, Saki would use that to stop Teru. On the flipside, Teru's ability to win multiple hands in a row -- that strikes fear into Saki and may actually cripple her ability.

In the end. You have Saki's power vs Teru's power; both at odds against each other.

And I doubt; we'll see this battle in the team tournament, huh?
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Old 2012-05-22, 21:34   Link #791
Sumeragi
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And I doubt; we'll see this battle in the team tournament, huh?
Uhm, Teru goes first, Saki goes last.
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Old 2012-05-22, 22:22   Link #792
Dr. Casey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Theories
Yes! I'm glad to see this be raised as the topic of discussion, because I've always been very curious to learn just why the mention of Saki's sister has such a powerful effect on her. There better be some deliciously bitter backstory between them to make Saki's mind break to the point of going yandere eyes after hearing that Miyanaga proclaimed to have no sister. I think that both those theories would be very very interesting if the story went down either of those routes, though considering that in the world of Saki everything revolves around mahjong, I'd say that something along the lines of number two is more likely. The Japanese Prime Minister was probably elected because of his skill at mahjong, God most likely created life because he was bored and wanted to watch people play mahjong, and the sisters being torn apart is surely because of mahjong as well.
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Old 2012-05-22, 22:41   Link #793
Kyuu
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Uhm, Teru goes first, Saki goes last.
Well. I demand a line-up change!
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Old 2012-05-22, 22:52   Link #794
Marina2
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Well. I demand a line-up change!
Unfortunately, that's impossible.

Considering the fact that announcers and characters in Saki universe always say something like "x played as .........last year but she plays as...... in this year", it indicates that player line-up cannot be changed in the middle of tournament.

Saki will have to deal with that Supernova girl from Shiratodai insted.
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Old 2012-05-22, 22:57   Link #795
Sumeragi
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Originally Posted by Kyuu View Post
Well. I demand a line-up change!
Don't worry, there's still the mother of all battles, the Individuals Finals.
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Old 2012-05-22, 22:58   Link #796
Requiem-x
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Originally Posted by Sumeragi View Post
Uhm, Teru goes first, Saki goes last.
To provide further info, and in case anyone forgot, Yuuki is the one who will face Teru.

@marina
And Shizu too, probably. I'd love to see Shizu break through Saki's Absolute Field Control with her sheer hot blooded-ness, or just normal rational thinking, whichever works. Our little exhibitionist definetly wouldn't give up Nodoka without a fight.
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Old 2012-05-22, 23:00   Link #797
Kyuu
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Don't worry, there's still the mother of all battles, the Individuals Finals.
Yes, yes. I am aware of these things -- as my total view of Saki season 1 re-watching counts well over 30 times. Already rewatched these Achiga eps over 5 times.
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Old 2012-05-22, 23:29   Link #798
Akarin
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Saki, Teru, Kyaputen, and Shizu on the Individual Finals.. Expect that to be an awesome finals.


Avatars:
. . . . .
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Old 2012-05-22, 23:35   Link #799
Mow Yun
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Originally Posted by gaiar31 View Post
Would water Koromo fit? (Haitei)(sp?) :P
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Old 2012-05-22, 23:47   Link #800
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Would water Koromo fit? (Haitei)(sp?) :P


No brakes on the rape train.




Last edited by Akarin; 2012-05-23 at 00:07.
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