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Old 2011-06-30, 19:03   Link #61
Tarantula Lady
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I just went back to read the comments on the previous chapter, Ch. 453, and you guys all realize why Kubo had Ichigo freaking out so much, right? He had to make Ichigo's hatred of Tsukushima believable, enough such that he'd be willing to kill him in cold blood.

And about Ichigo showing "cowardice" by running from Tsukushima without putting up much of a fight, I'd say that shows him to be more than a one-dimensional character, in fact, something of a flawed anti-hero. Kubo has set up this change in Ichigo's character right from the beginning of this arc. The year and half that Ichigo spent without his supernatural powers put a serious dent in his self-esteem and soured his outlook on life to the extent that he wanted to escape from his family and friends. And running away also gives him added incentive to hate Tsukushima, and makes Ichigo's turn towards harsher attitudes more believable. I did find it ironic that all this time, Ichigo feared his inner hollow was threatening to turn him towards the dark side, but instead it is Ichigo's flawed human side which has led to this.

Addendum:
BTW, considering SS's ruthlessness, I would not be surprised at all if they tried to kill Ichigo if he recovered his powers. While Aizen was plotting against them, Ichigo was a strong ally, but now he is probably seen as a potential threat. And according to the events in TBTP, SS does not ignore potential threats, e.g. throws them in jail even if they haven't committed a crime. That provides a reasonable motive for Isshin to stop Ichigo's attempts to regain his powers.

Last edited by Tarantula Lady; 2011-06-30 at 20:00. Reason: grammar/addendum
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Old 2011-07-01, 02:32   Link #62
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LoP, if you really want to understand why we think Bleach has so little content then let me give you a challenge. Read this Bleach chapter again as if you're reading it for the first time. Then read the latest Naruto chapter. It doesn't matter if you don't understand it. You'll probably get the gist of it anyway. You don't even have to like it. Just read the chapter with the same amount of patience you'd give to a Bleach chapter. Eventually you'll be surprised to realise that you're only half way through and essentially read the same amount of content as a typical Bleach chapter.
funny, but i feel the same way when i read a one piece chapter and a naruto chapter. it takes me longer to finish the one piece chapter than the naruto one. especially during the height of the marineford war, one piece was somehow longer and more detailed than any of the naruto chapters i've read. but of course, if it takes me 10 minutes to read a one piece chapter and 5 minutes to finish naruto, it takes me 2 minutes to finish bleach.
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Old 2011-07-01, 10:52   Link #63
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Originally Posted by Tarantula Lady View Post

Addendum:
BTW, considering SS's ruthlessness, I would not be surprised at all if they tried to kill Ichigo if he recovered his powers. While Aizen was plotting against them, Ichigo was a strong ally, but now he is probably seen as a potential threat. And according to the events in TBTP, SS does not ignore potential threats, e.g. throws them in jail even if they haven't committed a crime. That provides a reasonable motive for Isshin to stop Ichigo's attempts to regain his powers.
That makes sense. If Isshin and Urahara want to prevent Ichigo from ever getting his powers back it would be for his own good. It's pretty evident that whatever they're planning is something Isshin is really reluctant to do but feels necessary, so sealing Ichigo's powers for good is the most likely thing. But it's unclear whether they realize what's going on with Tsukishima or not. They probably do.
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Old 2011-07-01, 13:18   Link #64
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Bottom line is Bleach needs a bad guy and Ichigo needs his shinigami powers. This is and always has been the main drive for the series. So I don't think they will attempt to seal Ichigo's powers, and if they do, then they will fail. By this reasoning, Kisuke and Isshin and Yoruichi are also "potential threats".

So, either this Tsukishima will unpop as the big bad guy, or Aizen will return. Which wouldn't at all be surprising considering his insane strength and the fact that KT decided to let him be imprisoned rather then kill him. Nobody ever said anything about Aizen being immortal, yet when he sat there in Central 46 they quickly added that as a sidenote.
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Old 2011-07-01, 17:30   Link #65
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Aizen will return. Which wouldn't at all be surprising considering his insane strength and the fact that KT decided to let him be imprisoned rather then kill him. Nobody ever said anything about Aizen being immortal, yet when he sat there in Central 46 they quickly added that as a sidenote.
He's immortal because he and the hougyoku are still one-and-the-same entity. And since the hougyoku is still both indestructible and still under Aizen's control, Aizen's not going anywhere until someone figures out how to break down that orb for good.
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Old 2011-07-01, 17:37   Link #66
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Surely the Hougyoku wouldn't protect someone from their head being lopped off?
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Old 2011-07-01, 17:44   Link #67
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Surely the Hougyoku wouldn't protect someone from their head being lopped off?
The hougyoku was able to completely reconstruct Aizen's body after Gin's bankai destroyed it. Case in point, if killing Aizen was as easy as decapitating him, I think Central 46 would've done it. (Who knows, maybe they already tried a bunch of different methods of execution sometime during the 10 days between the end of the war and his trial). So for now, he really is immortal IMO.
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Old 2011-07-01, 20:32   Link #68
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^ you mean Aizen "IS" the hougyoku now? then why does the Central 46 just given a time period for his imprisonment? (oh crap, i forgot that particular year...)

You said he's immortal, then why not imprison or seal him FOREVER!?! (like Kouga in zanpaktou arc).....what if Aizen reach that time period that he still breathing? are these Central 46 going to free him?

ps: sorry, its out of topic but i can't help to ask it.......
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Old 2011-07-01, 21:44   Link #69
sayde
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^ you mean Aizen "IS" the hougyoku now? then why does the Central 46 just given a time period for his imprisonment? (oh crap, i forgot that particular year...)

You said he's immortal, then why not imprison or seal him FOREVER!?! (like Kouga in zanpaktou arc).....what if Aizen reach that time period that he still breathing? are these Central 46 going to free him?
I doubt even Kubo has fully thought about this. So as long as I'm free to speculate, I could only assume that situations like this are extremely rare. This may even be the very first time in central 46's history where they've been forced to pass sentence on someone who literally can't die. That being the case, if their governments laws are loosely based on those commonly found in countries throughout our own real world, then it may very well be possible that their laws prohibit indefinite life sentences as they may feel it violates human rights (or in their case, "spiritual being" rights). And while I'm sure most would argue that Aizen's crimes could warrant an exeption to the rule, it's not within central 46's behavior to bend the laws no matter what. They seem as uptight, rigid, and strict as you can get. If they were to try to implement indefinite life sentences, that might involve an entire lengthy process that would require them to amend other laws first.

In any case, we really don't know all of central 46's laws. It may be possible that they could find loopholes to tack on as many years onto Aizen's sentence as they want as his sentence grows closer to an end, thus creating a sort-of pseudo-indefinite life sentence (if that makes any sense ). Though it probably won't matter since the hougyoku will likely reduce Aizen's sentence from 20,000 years to 20 months at most. lol
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Old 2011-07-01, 23:49   Link #70
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Well they need to bring Aizen back. We haven't even seen his bankai!!
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Old 2011-07-02, 02:10   Link #71
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Originally Posted by sayde View Post
I doubt even Kubo has fully thought about this. So as long as I'm free to speculate, I could only assume that situations like this are extremely rare. This may even be the very first time in central 46's history where they've been forced to pass sentence on someone who literally can't die. That being the case, if their governments laws are loosely based on those commonly found in countries throughout our own real world, then it may very well be possible that their laws prohibit indefinite life sentences as they may feel it violates human rights (or in their case, "spiritual being" rights). And while I'm sure most would argue that Aizen's crimes could warrant an exeption to the rule, it's not within central 46's behavior to bend the laws no matter what. They seem as uptight, rigid, and strict as you can get. If they were to try to implement indefinite life sentences, that might involve an entire lengthy process that would require them to amend other laws first.

In any case, we really don't know all of central 46's laws. It may be possible that they could find loopholes to tack on as many years onto Aizen's sentence as they want as his sentence grows closer to an end, thus creating a sort-of pseudo-indefinite life sentence (if that makes any sense ). Though it probably won't matter since the hougyoku will likely reduce Aizen's sentence from 20,000 years to 20 months at most. lol

Hmm....it seems that is the only explanation in that matter........it is really a rare case since the only cases i'm aware are those like shinigami who had fused to his zanpaktou which was sealed, shinigami who give his spiritual power to a human will be executed, shinigami who stole an ancient artifact will be accused of treason, shinigami who didn't follow ss rules will be accused under rebellion and all.......

....who will have thought that in the history of ss, someone will attempt to kill a highest bodies of authority in their institution ...and this time , the new central 46 will have to give their sentence to someone who just turn into immortal which was too ironic since they don't have the right to give any punishment...... i mean, it's like "they just a mere soul, they can die but they're giving punishment to someone who is even can compare to God and/that will NEVER die "

....so i'm imagining right now that if Aizen break to his jail, I have a feeling that this time he will be successful in creating the King's key, opening the royal gate, defeating all Royal Guards and murdering the Soul King since were talking about here IMMORTALITY...


ok......on topic

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Originally Posted by Tarantula Lady View Post
I just went back to read the comments on the previous chapter, Ch. 453, and you guys all realize why Kubo had Ichigo freaking out so much, right? He had to make Ichigo's hatred of Tsukushima believable, enough such that he'd be willing to kill him in cold blood.

And about Ichigo showing "cowardice" by running from Tsukushima without putting up much of a fight, I'd say that shows him to be more than a one-dimensional character, in fact, something of a flawed anti-hero. Kubo has set up this change in Ichigo's character right from the beginning of this arc. The year and half that Ichigo spent without his supernatural powers put a serious dent in his self-esteem and soured his outlook on life to the extent that he wanted to escape from his family and friends. And running away also gives him added incentive to hate Tsukushima, and makes Ichigo's turn towards harsher attitudes more believable. I did find it ironic that all this time, Ichigo feared his inner hollow was threatening to turn him towards the dark side, but instead it is Ichigo's flawed human side which has led to this.
I absolutely agree with this.

It is very different right now....his family and friends were in fact not YET in danger state, i mean Tsukishima did not cut or killed anyone of them..... BUT what comes first to Ichigo's mind IS TO KILL him.....Yammy throw Inoue to the death and cut Chad's right arm. Grimmjow put a hole in Rukia and almost got killed in front of his eyes ....but Ichigo didn't mind to kill them, he just want to teach them a lesson that if you hurt my friends, i'm going to beat you all no matter what!.....

he hates Tsukishima so much that the first thing comes to his mind is to kill him...........I remember Aizen words back then that "a fighting spirit without hatred is like an eagle without wings" but we all know that Ichigo was able to defeat Aizen without hatred....................does this mean that Tsukishima will never be defeated by Ichigo because he hates him so much?......thus, this makes me feel that Tsukishima is a dangerous opponent for Ichigo since he know so much about Ichigo's behavior and how to pushed him to his edge.....
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Old 2011-07-02, 10:54   Link #72
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I also want such character development for Ichigo, but I think it will still turn out to be " You hurt my friends with your illusions of past, I'm gonna defeat you!" and defeats him in a way that Tsukishima doesn't die but his past illusions disappear.

If Ichigo kills him, that would be really nice though
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Old 2011-07-02, 22:07   Link #73
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Tsukishima is a a**, and well I'm okay with the storyline unlike what it seems almost everyone else has something to hate about it.
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Old 2011-07-03, 01:26   Link #74
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I think this arc so far is fairly interesting because it has a different feel to it than the previous ones with the whole mystery surrounding this arc's villain.
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Old 2011-07-03, 21:08   Link #75
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Tsukishima is a a**, and well I'm okay with the storyline unlike what it seems almost everyone else has something to hate about it.
oh im loving this arc, it moves somewhat slow at times, but overall its new,fresh, good.

it seriously feels like they rebooted the manga and this is a whole new manga but with the same main characters just with new powers and views. I approve of this arc.
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Old 2011-07-03, 21:42   Link #76
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oh im loving this arc, it moves somewhat slow at times, but overall its new,fresh, good.

it seriously feels like they rebooted the manga and this is a whole new manga but with the same main characters just with new powers and views. I approve of this arc.
Nice to know that you like it, its a nice fresh start for bleach. I wonder if they plan to show what happened to Hucho Mundo after all that happen.
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Old 2011-07-03, 23:41   Link #77
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They better. They can't just throw character like Grimmjow and Neliel in the trashcan.
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Old 2011-07-06, 04:37   Link #78
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LoP, if you really want to understand why we think Bleach has so little content then let me give you a challenge. Read this Bleach chapter again as if you're reading it for the first time. Then read the latest Naruto chapter. It doesn't matter if you don't understand it. You'll probably get the gist of it anyway. You don't even have to like it. Just read the chapter with the same amount of patience you'd give to a Bleach chapter. Eventually you'll be surprised to realise that you're only half way through and essentially read the same amount of content as a typical Bleach chapter.
I have red a few Naruto chapters here and there...

Kubo and Kishi are two different storytellers, I really don't think you can compare their writing styles. It all depends on which one you prefer. In my opinion Bleach chapters have a LOT of content. The difference is, in Bleach you actually have to "think" about said content. Unlike Naruto, which requires no thinking at all (No offense to Naruto fans It's just how I feel)
Bleach is character driven, and so Kubo spends as much of his time developing his characters as does the story
The truth is, I find Naruto too childish for my tastes and it doesn't hold my attention. Naruto is just some Ninja's, it bores me to tears. I find that Bleach is more mature and comparable to a Seinen. With Naruto is blatantly obvious it's for the "chirren" (Children) Kishi needs to explain every thing. It's like when you're in elementary school, and the information is simplified and explained in great detail and then when you get into college, it's not simplified anymore, and you have to truly use your noodle. Naruto is like the former, and Bleach is like the latter imo.

I personally think that most fans problems with Bleach is, they find everyone but Ichigo fascinating and so they're dissatisfied when he's the main focus of a chapter. Whenever the chapter is about Ichigo, they gripe about all the "forgotten characters" or not seeing the characters they're most interested in, like Isshin and Urahara, or the mystery Shinigami and generally wish he would disappear. Whenever he's the feature, they start to complain that the story is going nowhere because it's only about Ichigo

This chapter had a lot of content...in my opinion most, if not ALL the chapters have a lot of content. It's just no matter what Kubo does the fans complain. I am not saying it's not okay for you guys to be unhappy. I am just saying that all the senseless, bashing and whining about the chapters, makes it hard for me to enjoy Bleach discussions like I used to. Hell people complain because they don't know what's going on or they complain about cliffhangers as if Kubo is supposed to tell you everything in one chapter. When he does tell you a lot, then fans complain about him wasting pages with unnecessary dialogue or explainations. It's a matter of what you like. I think that Bleach chapters have a lot of content and I don't see him "dragging it out" like a lot of other fans do.

You'll never get me to say, that Naruto is better than Bleach, that Kishi is better writer than Kubo...NEVER! (I'd rather get shot in the head before I ever utter such a LIE)

As for "taking away Ichigo's future" I doubt Isshin and Urahara mean to try something that will keep Ichigo from restoring his powers.

"Stick your reiatsu in here" besides the sexual connotation, it sounds like they're giving him some juice. ..not trying to take anything away
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Old 2011-07-06, 05:25   Link #79
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my friend stopped reading bleach cause he thought it was feeling too fillerish, he wants the lowdown of whats happened. im trying to explain about tsukishima's power. all ive got it "ichigo has been seriosly mindfucked by this guy." could some1 help me explain it?
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Old 2011-07-06, 08:41   Link #80
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
In my opinion Bleach chapters have a LOT of content. The difference is, in Bleach you actually have to "think" about said content.

Bleach is character driven, and so Kubo spends as much of his time developing his characters as does the story
Let me stop you right there.

HAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!

Shit... and here I thought BLEACH fans had lost their humour. That's the funniest thing I've read in these forums all year. Thanks for brightening my day, man. Needed it after marking 300 exams.
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