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Old 2012-02-27, 15:54   Link #2121
Vena
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
About Mikono's stumble: I assume it's another of Zen's tricks, in the same way I'm sure he deliberately asked Andy to dig a hole where MIX would find it, and deliberately declined to inform MIX that that hole was OK. Gotta get them to the edge of love, right? His specific mechanism is unknown, but he is a magician, so he doesn't have to explain it, right?
Only to have it cockblocked by shushu? Fido gives the students favorable situations, not contrived accidents. I just found it odd and certainly not Fudos MO considering the discrete difference between how he worked Andy and MIX into their situation vs. what happened with Mikono.

Keikaku doori... for Mikono.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:03   Link #2122
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This is quite a good episode. I was waiting for Andy's chance! I love their puns on holes and filling them up! It is a great combination; Andy and Mix. Amata and Mikono is all the way for me but, I feel kinda sad for Zessica
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:06   Link #2123
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Maybe that tripping from the stairs is reika's bad luck cursing mikono
Or may be they wanted to do a macross frontier scene reacting.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:07   Link #2124
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Originally Posted by Nochgo View Post
Oh come on! Andy STILL doesn't get to form a union. That name is special to me, so this is making me more irritated than usual.
And Zessica needs to be more forward!
He did get to form a Union though. Mikono's power as an Element allowed him to.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:10   Link #2125
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*sigh* Am I the only one here who actually likes both Amata and Mikono, thought that scene was cute and didn't suspect any ulterior motives on anyone's part? (I'm tired of badass macho man heroes and badass amazon heroines - cute, sweet girls banzai!) Oh well.

Just one thing, though.

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Originally Posted by Zuul View Post
How can you blame her when Amata never takes initiative. XD ... He's so uke, a rather conservative, not too forward girl has to take the lead everytime. tss tss
Actually - while he may not be very aggressive in pursuing her, he does pursue her (and she lets him). Mikono might have proposed the date but Amata called out to her first, and asked for her name (and gave her his). He hangs out with her, compliments her, tries to make her feel good about herself (whether he's doing all this on purpose or subconsciously, I dunno), runs after her, and even dropped a pretty passionate "bomb" on her ("our meeting was destiny")... so yeah, it's not like he's not doing anything to win her. It's actually rather realistic, you know, considering.

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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
kuromitsu: any ideas on "GNIS"? It seems it really was MITHRA GNIS and RADIUS GNIS (official site has official romanizations now) but nothing's turning up. MITHRA I certainly recognize, RADIUS I assume means what it looks like it means, but kinda breaks the Persian/Zoroastrian/etc. theme the MITHRA GNIS implied. And on that note, apparently Mithra was the deity of binding, contracts, and such, which was an angle I was previously unaware of.
Actually, after poking around a bit, it appears that "gis" is an actual word in some Asian branch Indo-European languages (Tibetan or Sanskrit? I mainly saw it in Buddhist texts) and it means "two." (I don't know how it's supposed to be pronounced, it's been a very long time since I've dealt with anything like this...) I don't know if this is the origin of the mechas' name, I see no particular dual elements in Altair's mechs. But given that the first series was a mish-mash of elements of various religions and philosophies (Fallen Angels* that reside in Atlandia, consume human prana and fight in Cherubims against a mecha named Aquarion trying to revive a Sephirot-like Tree of Life... yeah) I think even if the name comes from the word "gis" there's no real meaning behind it, it's just a way of upping the coolness factor. ^^;;

*Funny thing that gets lost in translation is that while the pronounciation is the same as "fallen angels" the "angel"/"tenshi" part is not written as the usual "messenger/servant of heaven" (天使) but more like "wings of heaven" (天翅) or something along those lines (I don't really know how to phrase it in English), so it's not really religious but more like... dunno, "winged beings in the sky"? or something like that. I've always wondered why they're "fallen"... I mean, even the Angels referred to themselves as "fallen." Maybe because they were dying out?
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:12   Link #2126
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This whole episode is a one huge ... DONUT.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:12   Link #2127
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
I'm the opposite- I think the Jack of Clubs fits Amata: he's an earnest friend, charming, athletic and popular student that serves a purpose. That's being his role so far: the loyal guy they relied on when they are in trouble (which is pretty much what the card encompasses). The only problem is that it has no connections to reincarnation or anything like that (unlike Kagura's, Mikono's, Zessica's and Shrade's cards). There must be a reason why Fudo used it twice on him (and we saw it flipped to show its him), but maybe those cards are related in the role of Aquarion power rather than the role in the plot. Diamonds are concrete, measurable power (like MIX's and Zessica's), emotional in a positive way and intangible would be Hearts (Mikono's), intellectual/thoughtful and emotional in a potentially negative way are Spades (Shrade's).
It's not that I don't think what you're saying fits him -- it does -- it's that those attributes are kinda boring and generic enough that they wouldn't seem reason enough to believe that they put much thought into the cards.

EG: yes, once they give Zen the card gimmick they need to pick a card per pilot, but other than Amata's card I don't think you need to know any cartomancy to figure out how cards got picked. Instead, you can assume some of them got picked for their "obvious" symbolisms (Mikono is ace of hearts because romance, Kagura is a joker because of mystery), and the rest got selected to avoid accidentally stoking the shipping flames (e.g.: don't give Amata the same suit as any of the main girls; don't give Mikono and Zessica different ranks...etc.).

Amata doesn't quite fit that "non-cartomancy logic" scheme, but maybe he does; it might simply be the case that they didn't want to make it seem preordained that he's "better" than Kagura, and thus gave him the Jack (instead of a joker or a higher-rank face card).

So yeah: he does seem to fit the meaning for that card, but cartomancy is fairly obscure stuff, and thus I'd be inclined to favor an explanation of his being the jack of spades that doesn't require knowledge of cartomancy). Hence why I thought you might be over-thinking it.

But the lancelot thing actually seems like potentially a really good fit for Amata's role in the story, especially if you're in the "Amata's the new guy and not part of the legend" camp. Regardless, perhaps Alisia is metaphorically our lady of the lake?
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:20   Link #2128
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
*sigh* Am I the only one here who actually likes both Amata and Mikono, thought that scene was cute and didn't suspect any ulterior motives on anyone's part? (I'm tired of badass macho man heroes and badass amazon heroines - cute, sweet girls banzai!) Oh well.

/waves hand?

Although I like Zessica more than Mikono as character, I don't (yet) ship her with Amata. Their scenes were funny, though. I'm not shipping anything strongly.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:25   Link #2129
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Sadly for Zessica, I have a feeling that she'll always be 'Girl #2' for Amata. If Mikono leaves 'on her own free will' [ie. Come with me(Kagura) or he(Amata) dies].

And just so we're clear, that's one of the worst things to happen to a guy. It's that 'Pride' thing - and it's the fastest way for a sweet and caring guy who wouldn't hurt a fly to turn into a demonic whirlwind of revenge - AFTER he gets over the rather nasty BSOD that's sure to come. XD

...getting back on point, Either Zessica is going to try too hard to 'replace' Mikono for Amata or she's going to snap him out of the BSOD to fight for her.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:26   Link #2130
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Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Either the animators were really hard pressed to figure out how to fit that scene in (I hate such scenes, characters should not be motivated to show affection for each other only after moments of complete accidents <- give me real development *shakes fist at sky*) or she did it on purpose!
It was weird and seemed forced, that's why it bothered me. Like something out of a silly rom-com anime (which I hate xD). These two need real development, not cutesy scenes that are weird totally agree.
Now, if she did it on purpose, she gets some respect, because it worked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
*sigh* Am I the only one here who actually likes both Amata and Mikono, thought that scene was cute and didn't suspect any ulterior motives on anyone's part? (I'm tired of badass macho man heroes and badass amazon heroines - cute, sweet girls banzai!) Oh well.
Yes
JK, but as far as I'm concerned I'd rather have a couple like Mix and Andy where at least one of them needs to grow as a character before anything would happen.
To me a couple that learns to love each other >>>>>> cutesy couple that fell for each other on first sight and then just works out what they feel for each other.
But I guess that's down to taste.

That said, there rarely are badass heroines, even these days. I'm tired of badass heroes and damsel in distress girls myself


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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Sadly for Zessica, I have a feeling that she'll always be 'Girl #2' for Amata. If Mikono leaves 'on her own free will' [ie. Come with me(Kagura) or he(Amata) dies].
Sheryl Nome wants to have a word with you xD It's too early to assume Zessica would just be a replacement and Amata would then whine about Mikono's loss.
Although of course, AmataxMikono is so likely/loved-up still that I can't argue that it won't happen or isn't the likely outcome right now.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:30   Link #2131
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Originally Posted by Thess View Post
Why would Zessica do that? She only realizes she likes Amata a bit. She seems she'll be more withdrawn than anything. That's why she didn't interfere or bother Mikono and Amata this episode. She'll only 'take' Amata if Mikono doesn't want him.
there was my theory that she is a sleeper agent for the abductors or more likely Mikage who wouldn't be afraid to use even women for his own ends. She's older than Jin so it could be possible she was born on Altair (maybe one of the last women) but was taken by Mikage for whatever he is planning so they never knew about her.

It can possibly be hinted through the ending with her opposite reflection in the mirror. She isn't aware like how the dark half has her eyes closed while the white half is looking away.

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Originally Posted by SkullFaerie View Post
Sheryl Nome wants to have a word with you xD It's too early to assume Zessica would just be a replacement and Amata would then whine about Mikono's loss.
Although of course, AmataxMikono is so likely/loved-up still that I can't argue that it won't happen or isn't the likely outcome right now.
Sheryl Nome was always a legit option for Alto. Alto didn't shower Ranka with the kind of attention that Amata showers Mikono with. Amata easily knows that he loves Mikono but Alto never gave any indication he loved Ranka.

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Originally Posted by Tempest35 View Post
Sadly for Zessica, I have a feeling that she'll always be 'Girl #2' for Amata. If Mikono leaves 'on her own free will' [ie. Come with me(Kagura) or he(Amata) dies].
more likely Mikage would use his mind messing ability on Mikono till she has no problem just up and leaving all her friends and family. She feels she needs to apologize to Kagura, no indication has been made to her wanting to run away with him.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:31   Link #2132
Krytonis
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Well, I found some AMAZING photos!

Spoiler for Zessica:
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:35   Link #2133
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I do like Amata and I do like Mikono. But I don't like them as a main pairing.

They are very alike, have good communication. Basically they are the perfect real life couple.
They wouldn't bother me as a side pair.

But they lack conflict to actually be interesting to me, given the enormous numbers of scenes they get.

It's not an horrendous pair, but it lacks something I guess.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:40   Link #2134
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by Zuul View Post
But they lack conflict to actually be interesting to me, given the enormous numbers of scenes they get.
"Enormous number of scenes" - you're joking, right? ^^;;

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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
It's not that I don't think what you're saying fits him -- it does -- it's that those attributes are kinda boring and generic enough that they wouldn't seem reason enough to believe that they put much thought into the cards.
Wait, you're saying they're just using the cards and various symbolism to give a sort of flair to scenes, without any deep meaning in particular? No no, this can't be true.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:41   Link #2135
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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
*sigh* Am I the only one here who actually likes both Amata and Mikono (I'm tired of badass macho man heroes and badass amazon heroines - cute, sweet girls banzai!) Oh well.
I'm with you on this, though I'd be afraid to underestimate Zen.

Based on your findings I did my own poking around and think you're right. It *appears* that the word for 2 in Tibetan is variously romanized as *gnis* or *gnyis* (the latter seems more common), and thus seems to show up in lots of Buddhist terminology (e.g. probably in any talk of dualism). You can see some examples of it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_truths_doctrine or here: http://aro-books-worldwide.org/share...two_01_eng.php

As a pedantic aside Tibetan is considered to be in the Sino-Tibetan family, and isn't Indo-European like Sanskrit, but because of the Buddhist angle with those two languages there's a lot of shared vocabulary and there's been a lot of comparative linguistics.

So yeah: the show's pretty clearly a mishmash of ideas and terms pulled together to sound cool, and this "gnis" term seems unlikely to be all that meaningful. That aside about the "tenchi" they're using is cool, but those meaning-pronunciation "puns" never really translate.


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Originally Posted by kuromitsu View Post
Wait, you're saying they're just using the cards and various symbolism to give a sort of flair to scenes, without any deep meaning in particular? No no, that can't be true.
オッカムの剃刀が禁止です!
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:44   Link #2136
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post

So yeah: he does seem to fit the meaning for that card, but cartomancy is fairly obscure stuff, and thus I'd be inclined to favor an explanation of his being the jack of spades that doesn't require knowledge of cartomancy). Hence why I thought you might be over-thinking it.

But the lancelot thing actually seems like potentially a really good fit for Amata's role in the story, especially if you're in the "Amata's the new guy and not part of the legend" camp. Regardless, perhaps Alisia is metaphorically our lady of the lake?
If we would look at cards very simply then:
Jack - Youth (Male or Female)
Queen - Mature Female
King - Mature Male
Ace - New Beginnings
Joker - Wild Card - unexpected and uncontrolled

In one episode(I think 14ep) in the first series Fudo was playing with cards too: Jack or King of Spades was Sirius, Jack or King of Clubs was Apollonius, Queen of Hearts was Silvia. So they just gave for Amata Clubs because they gave the same card for the first series protagonist. Kagura - Wild Child - Wild Card. According to Kagura Shrade is Sirius - Spades. Since heroine in the first series was Hearts - Mikono is Hearts too.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:46   Link #2137
Faerie
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
Sheryl Nome was always a legit option for Alto. Alto didn't shower Ranka with the kind of attention that Amata showers Mikono with. Amata easily knows that he loves Mikono but Alto never gave any indication he loved Ranka.
Amata is also a very different character compared to Alto so the comparison is less than perfect and I only meant it with regards to Zessica necessarily playing second fiddle in case Mikono leaves. That should be a deal-breaker, not result in permanent heartbreak. And we can't assume at this point that Zessica would just play second fiddle. It all would depend on how it pans out, and it's too early to judge- same as it was too early to judge around this time in MF. IIRC, Alto WAS supposed to end up with Ranka initially, so the indications that he at least liked and deeply cared for her were always there even after that changed.


Oh and "technically", Amata and Mikono can't be considered in love yet, it's still "only" attraction but getting there
That said, I'm not arguing against the likelihood of AmataxMikono, it's the anticipated outcome right now

Quote:
Originally Posted by Koominator View Post
Well, I found some AMAZING photos!

Spoiler for Zessica:
I'm not delusional, I swear, but seeing this picture again, it spontaneously reminds me of this .

I feel like we're being trolled in 12000 different ways.

Last edited by Faerie; 2012-02-27 at 16:50. Reason: GAAAHHH formatting xD
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:47   Link #2138
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In the end still nothing will happen. They will say goodbyes. I hope its the girls who die this time while the guys are told to wait another 12000 years. The pairing of apollonius and celiane is never meant to be. They love each other but they always put the universe in danger.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:52   Link #2139
Thess
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Originally Posted by SkullFaerie View Post
Sheryl Nome wants to have a word with you xD It's too early to assume Zessica would just be a replacement and Amata would then whine about Mikono's loss.
Although of course, AmataxMikono is so likely/loved-up still that I can't argue that it won't happen or isn't the likely outcome right now.
More like Misa of Vaan if you want an hypothetical comparison of the 'second one'. Alto wasn't into Ranka to make the comparison valid. He was into paper planes until Sheryl made him see flying is better if he's not alone.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:56   Link #2140
kuromitsu
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
As a pedantic aside Tibetan is considered to be in the Sino-Tibetan family, and isn't Indo-European like Sanskrit, but because of the Buddhist angle with those two languages there's a lot of shared vocabulary and there's been a lot of comparative linguistics.
As I said - it's been a long, long time. (Hm, but I could've sworn it was Indo-European. I wonder why.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
So yeah: the show's pretty clearly a mishmash of ideas and terms pulled together to sound cool, and this "gnis" term seems unlikely to be all that meaningful. That aside about the "tenchi" they're using is cool, but those meaning-pronunciation "puns" never really translate.
That's what I think, too - it's all just a way to make the show even more fabulous. Regarding the Angels, though, the "fallen" part always made me wonder.

Quote:
Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
オッカムの剃刀オッカムの剃刀が禁止です!
*snerk*

I mean, I know it's fun to speculate, it's just that... this is Aquarion. ^^;; I've been watching anime for quite a long time but if you asked me how many shows I've seen that were drenched in symbolism that actually made sense... Utena is the only one that comes into mind. Definitely not Aquarion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkullFaerie View Post
I feel like we're being trolled in 12000 different ways.
Not really - people are just building up expectations based on no concrete evidence, and then they feel surprised and disappointed when it doesn't turn out the way they wanted/thought it would. ^^;; And then they blame the writer/director.
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