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Old 2012-03-19, 15:55   Link #2961
mayumi
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Each website can give a different description I guess.

DAISY: Innocence, loyal love, I'll never tell, purity, love that conquers all, beauty, simplicity.

More western sources
http://www.dgreetings.com/fragrance-...r-meaning.html

Last edited by mayumi; 2012-03-19 at 16:07.
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Old 2012-03-19, 15:56   Link #2962
Thess
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Originally Posted by mayumi View Post
Each website can give a different description I guess.

DAISY: Innocence, loyal love, I'll never tell, purity, love that conquers all, beauty, simplicity.
That's the meaning in the west. I'm using hanakotoba because lolanime.

Going by the western meanings. Gerbera daisies are additionally linked to cheerfulness as well, plus new beginnings (just like the ace of diamonds). Lily purity is more majestic and linked to chastity, while the daisy purity lies on an innocence associated with a fresh jovial simplicity (good fit for Mikono and Zessica).

Anyway, we can be reading a bit too much into it.
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Last edited by Thess; 2012-03-19 at 16:07.
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Old 2012-03-19, 16:51   Link #2963
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No clue about red anemone, sadly.
Well, I followed a link from wikipedia about hanakotoba and from what I found, you'd pretty much never-ever want to send anyone Japanese an Anemone, ever; what a hilariously negative flower it turns out to be.

I've done my best to translate, but there's a lot of meanings, and they're just words without any context. The central theme of the meanings seems to be about holding onto impossible (romantic) dreams...like when someone devotedly pines away for a lover they'll never have .

Who got the red anemone? Was it Kagura? Jin? Zessica? Please don't say Amata...

Here goes:
Spoiler for spoiled for length":
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Old 2012-03-19, 18:22   Link #2964
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Wasn't the point of this episode that destiny's etc can be overcome and you don't need to be bound by them hence the whole reincarnation business isn't proof of who anyone will end up with?
Who said that? I didn't get that out of this episode, since the series is based on "lovers" that are inexplicably bound by the red string of fate. So much they reincarnate every 12,000. It wouldn't make sense, bring it up in EVOL.

Besides you don't "overcome" you destiny. You can change it. You can even"make it" but you can't overcome it because it wouldn't be "destiny"

Do you mind if I ask you a question? I am correct in assuming you're an AmaKo Shipper right?

Do you think MikonoXAmata will be together whether or not he is the reincarnation?

because you believe they're Apollon and Sylvie and Kagura is a clone?

I am just curious, because I notice that "destined to be together" is always used negatively when it's Kagura's destiny. When it is being said that it's Amata's destiny to be with Mikono it's like *Cheshire Cat Grin* " ...Destiny. Haha destiny! hah! yeah! my boy HAS DESTINY on his side " *- turns and gives hi-fives to other shipmates. .. * It's cool.... just making an observation

The OS, and OVA's main theme was destined lovers who reunite every 12000 years and their love can destroy the world or save it and so far, Evol has played it straight....just like the other ones.
[QUOTE=Tenchi Hou Take;4060705
Doesn't that fly in the face of most of Kagura's hints anyway?[/QUOTE]


No it doesn't. Because ....
  1. Kagura emerged from water and was bathed in sunlight as did every other reincarnation of Apollo,
  2. He's a wolf
  3. They put emphasis on Apollo's declaration at the end of the OS " I will never forget your scent" ...Something that Amata has never ever mentioned.
  4. Kagura got a love love love love power-up with a power increase and used a move like Apollo. How come that is not as important as "Mugen Punch"?
  5. He brought out a huge pair of flaming wings, on his back no less...and he wasn't even in Aquarion
  6. He had a memory of himself with Sylvie. Something Amata hasn't done
  7. Caynne saw them getting married
  8. Mikono said she felt like she knew Kagura same as Amata
  9. She has been shown to have a connection to him. Something she hasn't done with Amata



I should be asking you that. Doesn't it "fly in the face of most of Amata's hints anyway?"



It does not make sense that Amata didn't awaken the Legendary Aquarion, because he wanted to protect Mikono. When he released the false Aquarion to protect Mikono so I doubt that he lacked the desire to protect her and if that's all Mykage needed to do to make Amata awaken Aquarion. He doesn't need Kagura to threaten Mikono. Doesn't make sense to me.....
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Old 2012-03-19, 18:37   Link #2965
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Who said that? I didn't get that out of this episode, since the series is based on "lovers" that are inexplicably bound by the red string of fate. So much they reincarnate every 12,000. It wouldn't make sense, bring it up in EVOL.

Besides you don't "overcome" you destiny. You can change it. You can even"make it" but you can't overcome it because it wouldn't be "destiny"

Do you mind if I ask you a question? I am correct in assuming you're an AmaKo Shipper right?

Do you think MikonoXAmata will be together whether or not he is the reincarnation?

because you believe they're Apollon and Sylvie and Kagura is a clone?

I am just curious, because I notice that "destined to be together" is always used negatively when it's Kagura's destiny. When it is being said that it's Amata's destiny to be with Mikono it's like *Cheshire Cat Grin* " ...Destiny. Haha destiny! hah! yeah! my boy HAS DESTINY on his side " *- turns and gives hi-fives to other shipmates. .. * It's cool.... just making an observation

The OS, and OVA's main theme was destined lovers who reunite every 12000 years and their love can destroy the world or save it and so far, Evol has played it straight....just like the other ones.



No it doesn't. Because ....
  1. Kagura emerged from water and was bathed in sunlight as did every other reincarnation of Apollo,
  2. He's a wolf
  3. They put emphasis on Apollo's declaration at the end of the OS " I will never forget your scent" ...Something that Amata has never ever mentioned.
  4. Kagura got a love love love love power-up with a power increase and used a move like Apollo. How come that is not as important as "Mugen Punch"?
  5. He brought out a huge pair of flaming wings, on his back no less...and he wasn't even in Aquarion
  6. He had a memory of himself with Sylvie. Something Amata hasn't done
  7. Caynne saw them getting married
  8. Mikono said she felt like she knew Kagura same as Amata
  9. She has been shown to have a connection to him. Something she hasn't done with Amata



I should be asking you that. Doesn't it "fly in the face of most of Amata's hints anyway?"



It does not make sense that Amata didn't awaken the Legendary Aquarion, because he wanted to protect Mikono. When he released the false Aquarion to protect Mikono so I doubt that he lacked the desire to protect her and if that's all Mykage needed to do to make Amata awaken Aquarion. He doesn't need Kagura to threaten Mikono. Doesn't make sense to me.....
Haha oh wow... I'm just stating that plainly the show is implying that this is one of those overcome destiny theme shows, hence the obvious quote that was repeated in this episode. The fact there's several visions some of which are negative also heavily imply this fact. I don't care who ends up with who but it's pretty obvious any "destined" occurences e.g destined lovers, and absolute events that once have happened there's no going back like death, isn't neccessary a fact or even an implacation but may even be the opposite meaning it's less likely to occur.

This is just the basic observation of this episode. Their not going to introduce such a blatant theme that ties into the heart of the show and just ignore it, it's simply how these animes go. It's like assuming people wouldn't do the impossible or constantly surpass their limits in Gurren Lagann despite the fact such occurrences were heavily implied since the very begining.
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Old 2012-03-19, 18:49   Link #2966
kuromitsu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Who said that?
Alisia did. In the movie. (A film by George Yamamori!) Also, Mikono.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Besides you don't "overcome" you destiny. You can change it.
That translation also fits the sentence, fyi.

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Originally Posted by Lord of Pandemonium View Post
Do you mind if I ask you a question? I am correct in assuming you're an AmaKo Shipper right?
*raises hand* I also have a question: must you be all ship-warry about this? I get it that you're passionate about this and all, but if you're so certain that KaguraxMikono is The One True Ship then why the do you care if other people have their own (obviously silly and misguided) opinions?

As I said I don't give a flying fig about who is the reincarnation of whom. Kagura can be the reincarnation of Apollo ten times over for all I care, but this is really getting ridiculous.

I won't even touch the list because lol "emerged from water and bathed in sunlight" (you mean jumped out of water and stood with his back to the sun in two different scenes that were completely unlike lil' Apollo's swim in the lake, and had Apollonius ever done anything like that? also, wolf, well, more like a red-maned-black-thing-that-resembles-a-canine), but seriously, come on.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:00   Link #2967
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Not to mention Amata used (part of) it twice, once ironically about his mom (saying that *he*, Amata, was the destiny she overcame iirc...so bitter ) and then again as something of a (seemingly effective) pick-up line on Mikono. Then the line from the movie was overlaid on the scene played again when Yunoha was looking at Jin and wondering if Jin's *really* a bad guy...it was all over the second half of that episode.

FWIW that verb is literally more like "jump over" or "go over" I think, so something like "overcome" an ok fit in English when paired with fate, but there might be a better way to translate it.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:17   Link #2968
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You need to give that line some context, guys. Sylvie (in the movie) speaks that line because is the fate of the lovers to be reunited briefly only to be separated again and again across eternity (like Vega and Altair!). It isn't the lovers reunion that needs to be overcome with a new flame (yeah, no, missing all the star-crossed lovers references?), but the fateful separation. Likewise, keep in mind this gives them strength to go on: Mikono was struggling with her brother's abandonment, Amata's with his mother's when they found each others. They were separated from people they loved.

Speaking of context: Mikono's words about how there's always somewhere out there for each person and that nobody is unwanted, paired up with a lonely Zessica looking at them just in a timely fashion could also be taking as foreshadowing somewhat.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:21   Link #2969
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Finally saw episode 12. Kind of a lame factor if Mikono became Amata official girl. Need more series to have the Genki girl having the guy for once.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:23   Link #2970
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You need to give that line some context, guys. Sylvie (in the movie) speaks that line because is the fate of the lovers to be reunited briefly only to be separated again and again across eternity (like Vega and Altair!). It isn't the lovers reunion that needs to be overcome with a new flame (yeah, no, missing all the star-crossed lovers references?), but the separation. Mikono was struggling with her brother's abandonment, Amata's with his mother's when they found each others. It wasn't loving their brother or mother what must be overcome, but the longing of being reunited with them (it can be also be used in non romantic context).
Beat me to the punch. Overcoming destiny for Apollon/Sylvie would be that, for once, they get to live out a peaceful and happy life together. Destiny for them has always been separation.

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Speaking of context: Mikono's words about how there's always somewhere out there for each person and that nobody is unwanted, paired up with a lonely Zessica looking at them could also be taking as foreshadowing somewhat.
I'll throw out my two cents that I don't think its a minor detail that Mikono's talk with Amata was so easily applicable to Kagura for herself, which is conveniently matched to a pained Zessica (and her steel origami hearts) for Amata. Now... where will this lead, is the question. Is the obsessed Kagura suddenly going to flip a switch for Zessica ()?
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:23   Link #2971
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Thess: sure, or foreshadowing of Kagura (which I was and am worried about, sigh). But, at the same time, I just realized how slick the use of that line really was: when Amata uses it as a pickup line, the context is him telling Mikono he'll find them a nice spot where they can watch the film together.

She asks him how, and he says he'll use the fate-overcoming wings. Cue some of Amata's trademark flying, right?

Then, during the movie, Amata *does* find the two of them a nice viewing spot (accidentally, but still...) when he flies the two of them up in the air. Did he actually (perhaps unintentionally?) make good on his cheesy pickup line? Are his foot-wings *the* wings that'll overcome his fate? Stay tuned to the next 14 episodes to find out...

So who got that red anemone?
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:26   Link #2972
Vena
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Originally Posted by miketyson View Post
Then, during the movie, Amata *does* find the two of them a nice viewing spot (accidentally, but still...) when he flies the two of them up in the air. Did he actually (perhaps unintentionally?) make good on his cheesy pickup line? Are his foot-wings *the* wings that'll overcome his fate? Stay tuned to the next 14 episodes to find out...
Conversely, his fate overcoming wings landed them literally in the hands of Kagura. Fate is a messy subject here especially if Mikono is Kagura's Sylvie because to defy the fate that the central star crossed lovers suffer would be to, for once, unite them.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:27   Link #2973
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Beat me to the punch. Overcoming destiny for Apollon/Sylvie would be that, for once, they get to live out a peaceful and happy life together. Destiny for them has always been separation.
Precisely! I am not even touching who is most likely Apollo(n) or Sylvia(e), but that people are clearly misunderstanding the meaning of that phrase.

You know which one is my pet theory that if Amata finally turns out to not be a reincarnation (new legend to carry out the torch of the old one that finally concludes).

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I'll throw out my two cents that I don't think its a minor detail that Mikono's talk with Amata was so easily applicable to Kagura for herself, which is conveniently matched to a pained Zessica (and her steel origami hearts) for Amata. Now... where will this lead, is the question. Is the obsessed Kagura suddenly going to flip a switch for Zessica ()?
Absolutely. The four are implicated in some way. As for Kagura, Idk? Could be, when he catches her scent. It's not like Kagura knows anything about Mikono other than how she smells. Or maybe Amata realizes he's been using Mikono as replacement mother by her resemblance with Alisia. Who knows? We still have episodes to go.

Or maybe Mikono and Zessica get together. Kagura is a clone. Amata a descendant. Meanwhile Zessica is the true Apollo to Mikono's Sylvia.

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Thess: sure, or foreshadowing of Kagura (which I was and am worried about, sigh).
Look above. It involves the four and, everyone else in the world?

But in terms of the story, those four are highlight.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:32   Link #2974
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Oh I know, I just got excited because I knew that with this many "wings" in the show the line would be both metaphorical and literal, but didn't notice how soon a literal application was on hand.

I've said before I'm not really in the reincarnation speculation game anymore. I just want things to stay fun, fabulous, and not get too emo, and I don't want to see Amata get kicked around too badly either. That's about all I'm specifically looking for at this point.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:33   Link #2975
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Absolutely. The four are implicated in some way.
My only concern is that Kagura's entire character in this show has been about Mikono. Every inch of his development has been this (weddings, Amata's view, Kagura's own view, Mykage's view, Fudo's view, fuck even Aquarion's view), and changing it can easily take his character from the currently rather shallow pool (one dimensional, lacking much depth or complexity) to a puddle in the Sahara. But we'll have to wait and see, maybe they'll surprise me with something awesome.

Gah, the edit. My only contention is that Kagura did confirm that Mikono's smell was the smell he wanted. Compare his sniffing some random girl to sniffing Mikono. He knew quite well what he was after but he needs to be seemingly very close to confirm.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:38   Link #2976
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well in regards to zessica i think the fact that she didn't really make any serious move on amata cause she knew he liked mikono. i think its more the "waiting for the renuion" in her case. like silvia would have waited 12000 years for it. i hope she doesn't get tired of waiting and gets pissed off or something

about kagura's smell well kagura's whole liking of mikono is based on smell. smell we don't know if its hers or shushu's.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:39   Link #2977
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My only concern is that Kagura's entire character in this show has been about Mikono. Every inch of his development has been this (weddings, Amata's view, Kagura's own view, Mykage's view, Fudo's view, fuck even Aquarion's view), and changing it can easily take his character from the currently rather shallow pool (one dimensional, lacking much depth or complexity) to a puddle in the Sahara. But we'll have to wait and see, maybe they'll surprise me with something awesome.
To be honest, we don't know anything about Kagura (his backstory). We know a bit more about Jin... Jin, who was displayed as a one-tracked-mind Alisia otaku before he got Protoculture'd. Maybe he'll fall for the nun if she stinks "deliciously".

Kagura could have been fabulously trolled by Mykage. He could be a clone, not the real Apollo(n), etc. Just like Amata can be fabulously trolled by making him just a descendant.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:47   Link #2978
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To be honest, we don't know anything about Kagura (his backstory). We know a bit more about Jin... Jin, who was displayed as a one-tracked-mind Alisia otaku. Maybe he'll fall for the nun if she stinks "deliciously".

Kagura could have been fabulously trolled by Mykage. He could be a clone, not the real Apollo(n), etc. Just like Amata can be fabulously trolled by making him just a descendant.
I know we know little but, after twelve episodes with nothing else, its rather odd to start changing stuff especially in the case of a one track mind person like Kagura. Yes, he could be Mykage's unwitting pawn (seems rather likely) but, again, is his purpose to get Mikono or to remove her from Amata?

As for Jin, there's a bit of a difference. Kagura was on Vega but his time was spent searching for and sniffing out Mikono, until he finally found her on the roof. Jin, on the other hand, was hit by a complete culture shock by his exposure to the *other side* and showed just how much of a naive kid he was. (Jin also had very little screen time prior to his arrival at Neo-Daeva, and no one had talked of him as anything more than the Last Son; he wasn't destined, forbidden, reborn, etc, that all can be and have been applied to Kagura.)

That said, you're right much time to go but I'm being wary.
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:49   Link #2979
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So who got that red anemone?
Spoiler for :
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Old 2012-03-19, 19:54   Link #2980
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Frankly, we barely know anything about anyone. All we have are some vague clues and a few certainities that may or may not lead where they seem to be leading (not to mention 'seem' is apparently very subjective). So I really see no point in getting overly invested in theories. And ship wars never make anything any better.
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