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Old 2012-03-23, 22:49   Link #3161
wisteria233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
'Malice' feels a bit too strong of a word. It implies some strong spitefulness or anger issues.
Would it be better to say that he's being malevolent?
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Old 2012-03-23, 23:02   Link #3162
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Would it be better to say that he's being malevolent?
Are you referring to Amata or Kagura? Just to clarify I was referring to Amata when I said 'Malice' was too strong of a word even when attacking his enemies.
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Old 2012-03-24, 00:00   Link #3163
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And you know, now that thinking back to it...

Apollo didn't remember anything of his past life, until around episode 13ish or 14ish. He remembered until he touched the white feather.

So yeah, Kagura's being Apollon seems forced, if anything he reminds me of how Apollonius was, when before he met Celianne, but even then Apollonius became very different and never called her his wench.

Amata on the other hand, he has no memory of ever being Apollo, but I think he needs something to trigger those memories, just like Apollo's memories of his past life were triggered by touching the white feather.
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Old 2012-03-24, 00:22   Link #3164
wisteria233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen View Post
Are you referring to Amata or Kagura? Just to clarify I was referring to Amata when I said 'Malice' was too strong of a word even when attacking his enemies.

Oh that's what you meant, well in that case what I meant was that Amata doesn't show any outright malice even towards his enemies.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LastOrder View Post
And you know, now that thinking back to it...

Apollo didn't remember anything of his past life, until around episode 13ish or 14ish. He remembered until he touched the white feather.

So yeah, Kagura's being Apollon seems forced, if anything he reminds me of how Apollonius was, when before he met Celianne, but even then Apollonius became very different and never called her his wench.

Amata on the other hand, he has no memory of ever being Apollo, but I think he needs something to trigger those memories, just like Apollo's memories of his past life were triggered by touching the white feather.
To add on to it, its also suspicious that Kagura could only "awaken" his memories when he was told to do so by Mykage, which bears no resemblance to how any character remembered their past lives in Sousei, in fact if they were told or ordered to remember X event in Sousei, then they were being manipulated, and they weren't who they thought they were. To recap both Sirius and Reika were manipulated through this tactic.

Memories only awakened when characters were put through the similar situations as that they faced in their past lives, or were put before an item that triggered their memory. So far the only character that was put through the former is Amata.

Though I would have to disagree with the statement that Kagura resembles Apollonious simply because we've never seen much of Apollonious at all, and what we did see, was nothing like the way that Kagura behaves. Though we are told that Apollonious supposedly had no humanity, we learn differently from Toma when he speaks of their time together. It was more of case of Apollonious not caring about and sympathizing with humans.

FYI Apollonious's speech pattern was also different from Apollo's.
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Old 2012-03-24, 01:38   Link #3165
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Kagura may be brutish and antagonistic in how he speaks, but I don't understand the claim that he is malicious. Spoiled, sure. But what little time he spends with his allies on Altair has mostly been him being defensive/protective of Mikono until mind raped. The only time he's been face to face with an enemy, Amata, he was hardly malicious.
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Old 2012-03-24, 01:49   Link #3166
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wow, finally a subforum. was wondering how this hadn't gotten a subforum from the beginning.
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Old 2012-03-24, 01:53   Link #3167
wisteria233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vena View Post
Kagura may be brutish and antagonistic in how he speaks, but I don't understand the claim that he is malicious. Spoiled, sure. But what little time he spends with his allies on Altair has mostly been him being defensive/protective of Mikono until mind raped. The only time he's been face to face with an enemy, Amata, he was hardly malicious.
Its because the way we see him interact with others he always treats everyone else like the enemy. Even back then I wouldn't call the way how Kagura treated Mikono as defensive or protective considering how he attacked Aquarion and the Vector units to find her.
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Old 2012-03-24, 01:57   Link #3168
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Originally Posted by cyberdemon View Post
wow, finally a subforum. was wondering how this hadn't gotten a subforum from the beginning.
I'm guessing it was mainly because a lot of the discussion was regarding shipping despite having the most post counts of any other ongoing show other than Last Exile S2. But shipping wars are banned on AS
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Old 2012-03-24, 02:30   Link #3169
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And yet I should considere that bland Amata who is nothing like Appollo in personnalitry and looks , doesn't have any déjà vu with anyone is the guenuine reincarnation !!!
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Old 2012-03-24, 03:04   Link #3170
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And yet I should considere that bland Amata who is nothing like Appollo in personnalitry and looks , doesn't have any déjà vu with anyone is the guenuine reincarnation !!!
well Apollo wasn't exactly bursting with Apollonius's memories either. He pretty much only got them from external influences like the memory feather. Silvia had a lot of the memories of Celiane from the very beginning but Apollo was a blank slate.
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Old 2012-03-24, 03:07   Link #3171
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Originally Posted by LastOrder View Post
Amata on the other hand, he has no memory of ever being Apollo, but I think he needs something to trigger those memories, just like Apollo's memories of his past life were triggered by touching the white feather.
?!?

I'm not familiar with the details of the first season, but when you said 'white feather', does it happen to look something like this?

Spoiler:
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Old 2012-03-24, 03:21   Link #3172
evil|plushie
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kagura is so malicious he asks people 'hey, can i kill you?' and then walks away when they say no.
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Old 2012-03-24, 04:17   Link #3173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Its because the way we see him interact with others he always treats everyone else like the enemy. Even back then I wouldn't call the way how Kagura treated Mikono as defensive or protective considering how he attacked Aquarion and the Vector units to find her.
Kagura's interaction with others:
  • Jin, Mykage, Izumo - bosses
  • Amata, Shrade and so on - enemies
  • Mikono - electroduced

I don't see on this list any friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
kagura is so malicious he asks people 'hey, can i kill you?' and then walks away when they say no.
He even left Shrade alive and his answer was yes(this question sounded like he was asking 'Do you know that you can die?'). That's one of the reasons why you don't take Kagura's word by it's literary meaning.
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Old 2012-03-24, 05:45   Link #3174
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Wanna know something odd, guys and girls? Chaos2Frozen pointed out something really helpful. In the poster, Amata is holding the exact replica of the feather from the OS that Apollo touched. So unless we are trolled, I think we are all headed in the right direction with Amata being Apollonius (with the minor exception of some here). And thank you, wisteria233 for reminding me about that feather detail. I had forgotten about it when watching the OS recently. I don't know why. Maybe I felt it wasn't significant. But it's proven wrong when looking at the series poster for EVOL.

All in all, Amata is most likely Apollonius. But that leaves us questioning who Kagura is. I don't want to say he doesn't bear no resemblance to Apollonius... but he's just not Apollon. And so, I have to say that he's probably a piece of him. That makes me hope that Zessica is just the whole Celienne and not split with Mikono.

BTW, I mentioned the Mikono was afraid of Kagura, but some people didn't seem to understand where I got that piece from: it was in episode seven. Mikono said she was afraid of not knowing. Then, in episode ten, that same piece is repeated but directed at Kagura with "I was so scared." Odd that no one whom is on that side of the triangle noticed this, but it's there. And there are two times she talks of this with Amata. Too bad Cayenne is left out of the whole loop. I guess Mikono trusts Amata more than Cayenne, but given their estranged relationship, I'm not shocked.
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Old 2012-03-24, 05:45   Link #3175
Zuul
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Kagura's so evil he couldn't stand seeing Mikono suffers under Jin's attack.

Let's rely on obscure interpretation because story wise nothing point at the precious little Amata being Appollon reincarnation while denying Kagura who has plenty of canon story material pointing at him!!
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Old 2012-03-24, 05:59   Link #3176
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He also didn't hesitate to flatten parts of Altair to force Izumo to open the gate. Not exactly evil but quite ruthless.
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Old 2012-03-24, 06:06   Link #3177
evil|plushie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoveMeKags View Post
Wanna know something odd, guys and girls? Chaos2Frozen pointed out something really helpful.
So the odd thing was chaos2frozen pointing out something really helpful?
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Old 2012-03-24, 06:07   Link #3178
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Oh wow, I'm late to the party. A SUBFORUM. This universe is now rocking

And it needs to be Sunday like right now. The wait for the next episode is KILLING ME!
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Old 2012-03-24, 06:12   Link #3179
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Originally Posted by DemiSoda View Post
I'm guessing it was mainly because a lot of the discussion was regarding shipping despite having the most post counts of any other ongoing show other than Last Exile S2. But shipping wars are banned on AS
And still no "Shippers here!" subthread. Why? WHY?
(And maybe we need a "Character haters here!" subthread, too... )
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Old 2012-03-24, 07:24   Link #3180
Chaos2Frozen
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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
So the odd thing was chaos2frozen pointing out something really helpful?
Cute, I see you're still somewhat an expert at selective understanding...

But I'm glad you thought it was really helpful .
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Last edited by Chaos2Frozen; 2012-03-24 at 07:44.
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