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Old 2012-01-04, 17:55   Link #221
Xacual
The color of a Hero
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiRa08o2 View Post
In the tiny bit of translation I made, I chose to use Maou. First of all because I was too lazy to put up "Demon Queen" or "Demon Lord", but also in case there's a connotation I do not know of. For example, if you translate "Youkai" into "Monster", both word could mean the same, but have different connotations. Same thing here.

BTW, Key Board, what's the image you posted?
That image is from the Sengoku Rance eroge. It's a eroge with a lot of strategy and gameplay elements to it. Quite difficult too until you get the hang of it.

On topic, I prefer Demon Queen myself as well also I assume that if other demons know of her, like the fairy queen calling her Ruby Eyes, then they should know she is female. Maybe not though.
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Old 2012-01-04, 17:59   Link #222
Belgaesh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiRa08o2 View Post
BTW, Key Board, what's the image you posted?
That image that Key Board posted is from Sengoku Rance series of action visual novel. That image in particular is from the game Sengoku Rance, which has a translation to english.

Spoiler for Link with more info::


Edit: Didn't saw that Xacual beat me into it.
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Old 2012-01-04, 21:44   Link #223
Key Board
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It's from Sengoku Rance

google it

it's about the most interesting douche-bag in the world
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Old 2012-01-05, 02:58   Link #224
Mentar
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The point is that it's mostly used by people who KNOW that she is female. If some guys who have never been in contact with her and didn't know anything used "Demon King", it would make sense. But you would NOT address someone female with "King". At least, not in my world.
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Old 2012-01-05, 05:30   Link #225
Johnny
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Originally Posted by Mentar View Post
But you would NOT address someone female with "King". At least, not in my world.
Or with a chest like she has either...
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Old 2012-01-05, 10:38   Link #226
Athena
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Calling her Maou is much more simple, IMO. It's 4 letters, guys. Demon Queen has 10 and a space.
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Old 2012-01-05, 12:25   Link #227
Shadow5YA
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If you really want a translation of Maou that's gender ambiguous, then why not "Demon Lord"?
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Old 2012-01-05, 12:57   Link #228
MrTerrorist
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You could join the debate for her name in TVTropes over here.
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Old 2012-01-05, 13:56   Link #229
Okashira
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
If you really want a translation of Maou that's gender ambiguous, then why not "Demon Lord"?
But that's the thing. The japanese specifically uses the male version of the title; there is a female variation of sorts, but that one isn't used (thus, purposely omitted).

I think the same thing happened in Superior, but the translator went out of their way and named her Demon Queen instead of King (which I wouldn't have done, but it's not like I have a say in the issue).
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Old 2012-01-05, 15:14   Link #230
Athena
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Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
But that's the thing. The japanese specifically uses the male version of the title; there is a female variation of sorts, but that one isn't used (thus, purposely omitted).

I think the same thing happened in Superior, but the translator went out of their way and named her Demon Queen instead of King (which I wouldn't have done, but it's not like I have a say in the issue).
Well, I don't know Japanese, but I think "Maou" is just a general term for "Demonic supreme ruler" or something like that. Saying "Demon Queen" is simply too akward or something like that.
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Old 2012-01-05, 16:55   Link #231
Mentar
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Demon Queen is the most natural way to describe her. What's "awkward" about it? In English, NOONE would normally address a female with a male title when a natural female title is available. This is no way to retain a subtle connotation, it creates a problem which doesn't even exist in the Japanese.
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Old 2012-01-05, 17:05   Link #232
Irenicus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiRa08o2 View Post
In the tiny bit of translation I made, I chose to use Maou. First of all because I was too lazy to put up "Demon Queen" or "Demon Lord", but also in case there's a connotation I do not know of. For example, if you translate "Youkai" into "Monster", both word could mean the same, but have different connotations. Same thing here.
But are we missing something important here at all? If one can't answer that question definitively I see it as just a shortcut, leaving the burden of recognizing the nuance to a well-informed reader -- although that can be a wise decision at times. The uninformed readers would just scratch their heads and assume "Maou" is "something-title" and leave it at that; they won't get the nuances unless those nuances are spelled out in the translation notes -- and that requires the translator to have a good reason in the first place to explain why the original Japanese is kept and some variation of the translation is not being used.

In the case of Superior various translators actually translate the title differently, and even then there was a point that characters in the story didn't know who or what the "Maou" was, what gender was s/he, and this confusion is a plot point; hence, the most commonly accepted choice among the fans is the quasi-gender-neutral "Demon Lord." Although not all translations were making the best choices anyway; one version even went with "Yuusha" for "Hero" (I'm like, ).

For this one though, there is an important matter of consistency. The characters in this novel are called by their roles; the translation translates all other titles. Ergo, making an exception of Maou would confuse the readers. Unless there's a concrete reason to make this exception, some key nuance missing that would affect comprehension and/or plot, I find it far too overcautious a choice.

As for the four-letter to ten-letter thing, yeesh. But really, in terms of awkwardness, Maou -- being in the first place a foreign word not in common use in English, in fact I should say not at all in use in English (is it a name? Is it a title?) -- is considerably more troublesome than the natural "Demon Queen," which raises no eyebrows.


P.S. Despite the argument, I don't actually mind that much and is just stating my preference with reason ("If you truly wish for my opinion..."). TL;DR and so on.
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Old 2012-01-05, 17:05   Link #233
Key Board
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Okashira View Post
But that's the thing. The japanese specifically uses the male version of the title; there is a female variation of sorts, but that one isn't used (thus, purposely omitted).

I think the same thing happened in Superior, but the translator went out of their way and named her Demon Queen instead of King (which I wouldn't have done, but it's not like I have a say in the issue).
魔王 is a word popularized by dragon quest and has been a staple since then. There are no gender differentiations

There's a thing called 魔女, which means witch, but the context becomes different.
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Old 2012-01-05, 17:11   Link #234
Key Board
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Originally Posted by KiRa08o2 View Post
Calling her Maou is much more simple, IMO. It's 4 letters, guys. Demon Queen has 10 and a space.
If you want to do that, might as well call the hero "yuusha"

I think translation should be contextual and not literal

Honestly, if I had to change something. It would be changing "Demon Queen" to "Overlord"

Because here in the west, Disgaea is has a cult following and that term would sink in right away

but demon queen is definitely better than Maou
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Old 2012-01-05, 17:24   Link #235
MAX_COLA_POWER!
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I'm fine with calling her demon queen and not causing international geneva convention debates about the gender roles of her name-v-.
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Old 2012-01-05, 17:59   Link #236
Mentar
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Female Knight is Female Knight
Head Maid is Head Maid
Merchant is Merchant
Young Noble is Young Noble

etc.

But Demon Queen is "Maou"? And Hero is "Yuusha"??

There's no consistency in this. The point is clearly that NO CHARACTER IN THE ENTIRE STORY has a name. Not ONE. Only functions. It makes NO SENSE to leave them untranslated for only the two.
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Old 2012-01-05, 18:00   Link #237
Athena
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In the Chinese text I got, it's 魔王. No 魔妃 or I-don't-know-what. Definitively not 魔女.

I'm not sure, but 魔妃 could have maybe been used. It's based on this that I translated. And Irenicus is kinda right. I postponed that issue to the future because I didn't want to choose aything. Also, what if in the next chapters of the story, someone actually thought that the leader was a guy or something like that? There's the need then to change everything since the beginning.

Though because of what I've said, in the first line, I don't know if "Demoon Queen" would be fine.
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Old 2012-01-05, 18:12   Link #238
Xellos-_^
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiRa08o2 View Post
In the Chinese text I got, it's 魔王. No 魔妃 or I-don't-know-what. Definitively not 魔女.

I'm not sure, but 魔妃 could have maybe been used. It's based on this that I translated. And Irenicus is kinda right. I postponed that issue to the future because I didn't want to choose aything. Also, what if in the next chapters of the story, someone actually thought that the leader was a guy or something like that? There's the need then to change everything since the beginning.

Though because of what I've said, in the first line, I don't know if "Demon Queen" would be fine.
1. 妃 means princess, 魔妃 means Demon Princess
2. Since Japanes is partially base on Chinese i am assuming it has same problem as Chinese which is there is not actual word for a Empress who rules by their own right.
3. Wu Zetian, The First and Only Empress of China was refer to as 皇上 or 皇帝 same as a male emperor.

Personally i would just go with Demon Lord.
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Old 2012-01-05, 18:48   Link #239
Athena
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Originally Posted by Xellos-_^ View Post
1. 妃 means princess, 魔妃 means Demon Princess
2. Since Japanes is partially base on Chinese i am assuming it has same problem as Chinese which is there is not actual word for a Empress who rules by their own right.
3. Wu Zetian, The First and Only Empress of China was refer to as 皇上 or 皇帝 same as a male emperor.

Personally i would just go with Demon Lord.
1. Yeah, I know. It's princess, but 妃 has often been used to make the translation more pretty, since it sounds better than 后.
2. As I said, 后 exists, but 魔后 honestly sounds ugly.
3. Wasnt she 天后?
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Old 2012-01-05, 19:15   Link #240
LeaD36
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in all sincerity, we should just call them airhead and bigboobed airhead
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