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Old 2011-07-12, 13:51   Link #21
Kallen4life
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Quote:
so last week i said that:
Gaara: Shinji
Gaara's dad: Gendou

This week i must add:
Karura: Yui
HAHAHAH, that's so spot on, it's hilarious
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Old 2011-07-12, 14:26   Link #22
Bombo
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kages team funny tbh
i love them XD
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Old 2011-07-12, 15:09   Link #23
Nobodyman9
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This is the most faux emotional crap ever.

Not only does this undermine the most tragic and heartfelt aspect of Gaara's character, but it makes Gaara's dad look like even more of an asshole. So Gaara's dad, mom and uncle all loved him and the only reason he thought otherwise was because they were "testing" him? So by lying to him they turned him into a sadistic murdering psychopath for no damn good reason. If anything, Gaara should hate his dad even more.
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Old 2011-07-12, 15:31   Link #24
Alchemist007
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It's been a while since I've agreed with you.
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Old 2011-07-12, 15:36   Link #25
kakakka
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I don't believe Gaara's father loved him. I think he only viewed Gaara as a weapon/tool.
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Old 2011-07-12, 15:49   Link #26
Sabaku Kyu
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I liked the chapter, but mostly because of the former Mizukage and Muu whose characters have grown on me. The interaction between Gaara and his father went pretty much the way most expected I imagine.

Always knew the stuff about Gaara's mother hating him was bull, though I believed it was Yashumaru's way of rationalizing his mission rather than a test by the 4th Kazekage (which was a pretty dick move on his part). Just wish there had been more intensity on the kazekage's part. I kinda wanted to see Gaara tell him off

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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
This is the most faux emotional crap ever.

Not only does this undermine the most tragic and heartfelt aspect of Gaara's character, but it makes Gaara's dad look like even more of an asshole. So Gaara's dad, mom and uncle all loved him and the only reason he thought otherwise was because they were "testing" him? So by lying to him they turned him into a sadistic murdering psychopath for no damn good reason. If anything, Gaara should hate his dad even more.
Gaara was already killing uncontrollably (rather, the Shukkaku was and Gaara was helpless to stop it). The test was meant to be one final trial to see if Gaara could finally hack it as jinchuuriki. It is hard to determine what exactly Gaara's dad expected the test to accomplish. I guess he figured the trauma would put Gaara in a "sink or swim" situation where either he gained control or he snapped and completely lost it. IMO, it seems like Gaara only partially failed. He gained better control over the demon after that but he also went batsh**t insane.
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Old 2011-07-12, 16:52   Link #27
neji-kun
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
This is the most faux emotional crap ever.

Not only does this undermine the most tragic and heartfelt aspect of Gaara's character, but it makes Gaara's dad look like even more of an asshole. So Gaara's dad, mom and uncle all loved him and the only reason he thought otherwise was because they were "testing" him? So by lying to him they turned him into a sadistic murdering psychopath for no damn good reason. If anything, Gaara should hate his dad even more.
Still don't see what the problem is. You act like putting a monster in a newborn isn't f*cked up in the first place.
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Old 2011-07-12, 16:54   Link #28
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by neji-kun View Post
Still don't see what the problem is. You act like putting a monster in a newborn isn't f*cked up in the first place.
It is, but that's not what I'm talking about.
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Old 2011-07-12, 17:19   Link #29
neji-kun
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It is, but that's not what I'm talking about.
Enlighten me.
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Old 2011-07-12, 17:39   Link #30
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Gaara was already killing uncontrollably (rather, the Shukkaku was and Gaara was helpless to stop it). The test was meant to be one final trial to see if Gaara could finally hack it as jinchuuriki. It is hard to determine what exactly Gaara's dad expected the test to accomplish. I guess he figured the trauma would put Gaara in a "sink or swim" situation where either he gained control or he snapped and completely lost it. IMO, it seems like Gaara only partially failed. He gained better control over the demon after that but he also went batsh**t insane.
The plan is retarded. So their plan is to needlessly traumatize the 5 year old kid with a monster inside of him and somehow this will prove whether or not he's capable of handling it? How does putting him in an unstable mental/emotional state help him gain control?

Hey, here's an idea: why don't you try to helping him cope with it and learn how to control the beast inside him? I mean, you must some idea of how it works. Supposedly this is an age old tradition, right? (oh wait, but I guess this took place in part 1, where it wasn't).
Quote:
Originally Posted by neji-kun View Post
Enlighten me.
Okay.

Quote:
Not only does this undermine the most tragic and heartfelt aspect of Gaara's character, but it makes Gaara's dad look like even more of an asshole. So Gaara's dad, mom and uncle all loved him and the only reason he thought otherwise was because they were "testing" him? So by lying to him they turned him into a sadistic murdering psychopath for no damn good reason. If anything, Gaara should hate his dad even more.
This whole development of Gaara's parents and uncles actually loving him is a complete nonsensical retcon that actually achieves the opposite effect of what Kishi was going for. I don't know how much clearer I can make it then that.
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Old 2011-07-12, 18:11   Link #31
neji-kun
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
The plan is retarded. So their plan is to needlessly traumatize the 5 year old kid with a monster inside of him and somehow this will prove whether or not he's capable of handling it? How does putting him in an unstable mental/emotional state help him gain control?

Hey, here's an idea: why don't you try to helping him cope with it and learn how to control the beast inside him? I mean, you must some idea of how it works. Supposedly this is an age old tradition, right? (oh wait, but I guess this took place in part 1, where it wasn't)



This whole development of Gaara's parents and uncles actually loving him is a complete nonsensical retcon that actually achieves the opposite effect of what Kishi was going for. I don't know how much clearer I can make it then that.
Ok, the logical assumption seems to be that his dad didn't think he should have to be helped which is kind of the point of his dad's value system, or whatever. If He can manage to control it despite being pushed to the brink then he is fit to be the host, otherwise f*ck him. I don't see whats so hard to understand about that. Its called sink or swim.

Curious. What was kishi going for again?
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Old 2011-07-12, 18:16   Link #32
DeDe
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Originally Posted by neji-kun View Post
Curious. What was kishi going for again?
A mother's love is instinctual, unconditional, and forever.
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Old 2011-07-12, 18:29   Link #33
Nobodyman9
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Ok, the logical assumption seems to be that his dad didn't think he should have to be helped which is kind of the point of his dad's value system, or whatever. If He can manage to control it despite being pushed to the brink then he is fit to be the host, otherwise f*ck him. I don't see whats so hard to understand about that. Its called sink or swim.
1. That's a pretty fucked up value system to begin with, especially when Gaara is in such an unstable state, so it doesn't portray Gaara's dad in a positive light.

2. It's even more fucked up when the value system is, "I'm not going to help him control the beast, but I am going to needlessly traumatize him and take away the one glimmer of hope and comfort he has in this world and somehow this will result in a good thing."

Quote:
Curious. What was kishi going for again?
He was trying to redeem Gaara's father, i.e. make him not look like an uncaring douchebag, and show that he did love Gaara and for Gaara to forgive and love him in return. This is complete bollocks.
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Old 2011-07-12, 19:12   Link #34
Rahan
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Originally Posted by neji-kun View Post
Ok, the logical assumption seems to be that his dad didn't think he should have to be helped which is kind of the point of his dad's value system, or whatever. If He can manage to control it despite being pushed to the brink then he is fit to be the host, otherwise f*ck him. I don't see whats so hard to understand about that. Its called sink or swim.
Sink or swim ? Surely you mean sink AND swim ?
Did you read the chapter. Gaara's father's masterplan was to mindfuck a fragile Gaara to see if Gaara would be mindfucked, and then watch mindfucked Gaara randomly kill the villagers he had sworn to protect during 5 years ...

Gaara said he understood that, so I am sure it makes sense and isn't completely inept writing. (and I am not even talking about how writing about this is completely pointless ... The most enthusiastic about that said it was "nice" and "appreciable" for Gaara, so surely it deserved a whole chapter years after the issue was dealt with)

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Originally Posted by Sabaku Kyu View Post
Gaara was already killing uncontrollably (rather, the Shukkaku was and Gaara was helpless to stop it).
No he wasn't ... Yashamaru was his first kill ... The test turned a lonely kid still trying to befriends other kids into an insane monster ...

Last edited by Rahan; 2011-07-12 at 19:40.
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Old 2011-07-12, 19:15   Link #35
GDB
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Originally Posted by Rahan View Post
Sink or swim ? Surely you mean sink AND swim ?
Did you read the chapter. Gaara's father's masterplan was to mindfuck Gaara to see if Gaara would be mindfucked, and then watch mindfucked Gaara randomly kill the villagers he had sworn to protect during 5 years ...

Gaara said he understood that, so I am sure it makes sense and isn't completely inept writing.
No, you just misread. He had the entire village evacuated before he put that plan into play. There was no one else there to kill.
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Old 2011-07-12, 19:22   Link #36
Rahan
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No, you just misread. He had the entire village evacuated before he put that plan into play. There was no one else there to kill.
Except the people we know he killed during 5 years ... Gaara isn't exactly a new character ... We know he killed. We know he failed the test. His father even says so ... Yet didn't really care since he only sent 5 more assassins in 5 years ...
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Old 2011-07-12, 19:31   Link #37
GDB
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We're talking about the attempted assassination by Yashamaru, and his screwing Gaara's mind by saying his mom never loved him. Not everything that happened before and after it. Gaara's Father's plan was obviously to kill Gaara if he went berserk; he says as much. He obviously failed, but it wasn't in his plan to fail.
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Old 2011-07-12, 19:37   Link #38
Rahan
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Originally Posted by GDB View Post
We're talking about the attempted assassination by Yashamaru, and his screwing Gaara's mind by saying his mom never loved him. Not everything that happened before and after it. Gaara's Father's plan was obviously to kill Gaara if he went berserk; he says as much. He obviously failed, but it wasn't in his plan to fail.
Well, if the only way you have to enjoy / defend the chapter is to forget the context, then how can you deny the chapter is bad ?
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Old 2011-07-12, 19:41   Link #39
GDB
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Where did I deny say I enjoyed the chapter or try to defend it? All I'm saying is that you misread Gaara's dad's plan. You insinuated that he intended to cause Gaara to go berserk and allow him to kill villagers as he watched. I said that wasn't his plan at all, it's just how things ended up because his plan failed.
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Old 2011-07-12, 19:51   Link #40
GDB
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No, I'm just saying he failed. I'm pretty sure people agreed last week that it was stupid to give him these powers but then have him not have put Gaara down himself. It's just standard Kishi retconning that's been happening ever since the time skip.
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