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Old 2011-07-16, 10:46   Link #81
Ulquiorra
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It was Gaara's androgynous uncle that "hated" him. He first pretended to love Gaara. Then he tried to kill him on the Kazekage's orders and blamed him for his sister's death. Gaara thought he killed his mother during childbirth. I guess we can say things are now different after this chapter.

While he believed she hated the village, I guess you can say Gaara also thought his mother did hate him since she died bringing a "demon" into the world. Otherwise Kishimoto would not have made a big point with daddy telling Gaara his mother loved him. That was not something he believed before.

But I just wonder if this really needed to be dragged up again? Did we really need to go over and now tweak Gaara's backstory so he could have a happy ending? We knew it was coming when we saw his father, but Kishimoto thankfully didn't revisit the Hyyuuga mess with Hizashi, Hiashi, Hinata, and Neji.

Anyway, Gaara and Sasuke both traveled down dark roads. But Gaara wanted help, unlike Sasuke. The Jinchuuriki are much different than Sasuke. They simply need people to love them to fill a hole. Sasuke had love from Team 7, but threw it away. He is far more damaged than that. Naruto's jesus powers simply worked more on Gaara.

@Dede - Temari's happy ending is making sandwiches in the Nara kitchen. Her unhappy ending is being ignored like she has been for about 300 chapters.
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Old 2011-07-16, 13:54   Link #82
DeDe
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The preview for the next chapter says Itachi and Nagato will meet up with Naruto. It's unclear if this means they will fight or talk. The previews have lately been accurate. The preview after the Raikage/Naruto conflict said Gaara would confront his father.

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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
While he believed she hated the village, I guess you can say Gaara also thought his mother did hate him since she died bringing a "demon" into the world. Otherwise Kishimoto would not have made a big point with daddy telling Gaara his mother loved him. That was not something he believed before.
That's what I was trying to convey. It seems there were two major points to this chapter. Gaara's father lost sight of what was Gaara's true value. His value was not as a tool, but as his son. And that his mother truly loved him. Which Gaara did not know before.

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Originally Posted by james0246 View Post
And I suppose her happy ending involves a certain cloud-loving-pineapple-head? .
Well this is a part of her story. Without Shikamaru, she basically is Gaara's sister with the funny hair who stands there and doesn't do much. She needs her development with him. Otherwise her character has little point.

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@Dede - Temari's happy ending is making sandwiches in the Nara kitchen. Her unhappy ending is being ignored like she has been for about 300 chapters.
I don't want her making sammiches and babies. While I expect that of Kishi with Sakura and Hinata, I would think Temari would stay an active ninja for a while before retiring to her family. I expect them both to be advisers to their Kages.
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Old 2011-07-16, 18:52   Link #83
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by DeDe View Post

The preview for the next chapter says Itachi and Nagato will meet up with Naruto. It's unclear if this means they will fight or talk. The previews have lately been accurate. The preview after the Raikage/Naruto conflict said Gaara would confront his father.
Huh. I was hoping we'd see Mei next, but an appearance from Itachi and Nagato is good too.

As far as we know, Kabuto can't directly communicate with the ET summons from his location, he can only control their actions, so that would rule out using Itachi or Nagato to deliver any kind message to Naruto. If that's true, I guess they'll attack. We'll see though.
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Old 2011-07-17, 03:14   Link #84
Ero-Senn1n
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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
Gaara is not suppressing anything.
Then lets just wait and see who will be right. It may take a year or two as usual

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Originally Posted by Ulquiorra View Post
They can't have Naruto's point of view on that matter.
I didn't say that, they are not Naruto nor are they Sasuke's ex-best friend. It's not about their relationship with Sasuke, but with Naruto, that was the matter.


BTW seeing the Temari arguments, i think a changed Gaara will be able to help in that matter. I mean Temari is also one who was raised to neglect the feelings and be a "perfect" ninja. Now it would be a funny moment if Gaara as kazekage tells her that he can see she has some feelings towards Shikamaru and it's not one sided, and after some teasing he *orders* her to be with Shika That would be quite funny
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Old 2011-07-17, 15:23   Link #85
Draginata
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Alright, I have a general question about this whole ordeal, primarily out of curiousity...

If Gaara's mother loved him, why did she name him "Gaara," considering the meaning of the name?
I'm mainly asking to hear opinions on it. The name fit perfectly when Gaara had a 'dark' past, but after this chapter, it makes little to no sense whatsoever. Unless I'm missing an important fact in the matter.

Anyone care to clear things up for me, if I'm missing anything? It surprises me that no one has asked the same question yet.
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Old 2011-07-17, 15:36   Link #86
Fran~
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The name fit perfectly when Gaara had a 'dark' past, but after this chapter, it makes little to no sense whatsoever. Unless I'm missing an important fact in the matter.
Gaara still has a dark past... despite these events, his childhood wasn't pleasant at all, it's the same with Naruto; there you have "Dark Naruto". Luckily for both, they could endure those dark years.

Besides, i believe that my analogy with Evangelion, (Yui, Gendo and Shinji) is present here. Perhaps Gaara's father tried to force him to enter in the "dark side" surrounding him by all kind of flags that made Gaara's life miserable with the goal to make him in a killing machine. But like Yui did it with Shinji, Gaara's mom was always protecting him.
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Old 2011-07-17, 15:42   Link #87
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Gaara still has a dark past... despite these events, his childhood wasn't pleasant at all, it's the same with Naruto; there you have "Dark Naruto". Luckily for both, they could endure those dark years.

Besides, i believe that my analogy with Evangelion, (Yui, Gendo and Shinji) is present here. Perhaps Gaara's father tried to force him to enter in the "dark side" surrounding him by all kind of flags that made Gaara's life miserable with the goal to make him in a killing machine. But like Yui did it with Shinji, Gaara's mom was always protecting him.
For the dark past, I meant the idea that his mother despised him. I'm not saying I disagree/dislike the idea that it was all just a lie to test him; I meant that the idea that his mother called him a name meaning "A self-loving demon/carnage" doesn't make much sense in light of this new chapter, whereas it did before.

I understand the second part. Unless I'm misinterpreting your post, I still don't fully see how that's a reason for his name - at this point, that's the only thing that I can't fully comprehend about this chapter.
If you weren't referring to that part of my post, I apologize for assuming things.
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Old 2011-07-17, 16:43   Link #88
Fran~
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Originally Posted by Draginata View Post
For the dark past, I meant the idea that his mother despised him. I'm not saying I disagree/dislike the idea that it was all just a lie to test him; I meant that the idea that his mother called him a name meaning "A self-loving demon/carnage" doesn't make much sense in light of this new chapter, whereas it did before.
I understand your point. I just wanted to say that no matter if it was a lie or not, the point is that Gaara was feared/hated/used, that's his dark past, nobody can change that. Even if it was a lie, the hate and fear that Gaara felt in his childhood wasn't a lie. It took years and his life to change that.


Quote:
I understand the second part. Unless I'm misinterpreting your post, I still don't fully see how that's a reason for his name - at this point, that's the only thing that I can't fully comprehend about this chapter.
If you weren't referring to that part of my post, I apologize for assuming things.
Don't worry
We must remember that is impossible to avoid some plotholes. Gaara's story was written years ago, so i don't believe that Kishi can fit every story in the actual plot.
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Old 2011-07-17, 17:00   Link #89
Draginata
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I understand your point. I just wanted to say that no matter if it was a lie or not, the point is that Gaara was feared/hated/used, that's his dark past, nobody can change that. Even if it was a lie, the hate and fear that Gaara felt in his childhood wasn't a lie. It took years and his life to change that.



Don't worry
We must remember that is impossible to avoid some plotholes. Gaara's story was written years ago, so i don't believe that Kishi can fit every story in the actual plot.
Ah, fair enough. Yes, I agree with that. As I said, I didn't mean to sound as if I believed it changed anything.

You're probably right about that. I guess I just have a habit of overthinking - I'd be lying if I said I was 100% content with the outcome, but as you said, the damage was done and (for the most part) repaired, even if the truth is out in the open now.
On that note, I don't really have a lot of cause to be dissatisfied. It doesn't affect Gaara's character at all, whether Kishimoto 'altered facts' or not; I'm not saying he did, however it does feel that way with the sudden revelation.

Anyhow, thanks for responding. I'm not trying to argue or debate - for the most part, the above is opinion and nothing more. If anyone disagrees, feel free to respond.
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Old 2011-07-17, 17:18   Link #90
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Don't worry
We must remember that is impossible to avoid some plotholes. Gaara's story was written years ago, so i don't believe that Kishi can fit every story in the actual plot.
Actually, it would be quite easy to avoid plotholes if Kishi didn't insist on ruining every single aspect of this once very good manga.
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Old 2011-07-17, 18:10   Link #91
Sabaku Kyu
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Originally Posted by Draginata View Post
For the dark past, I meant the idea that his mother despised him. I'm not saying I disagree/dislike the idea that it was all just a lie to test him; I meant that the idea that his mother called him a name meaning "A self-loving demon/carnage" doesn't make much sense in light of this new chapter, whereas it did before.

I understand the second part. Unless I'm misinterpreting your post, I still don't fully see how that's a reason for his name - at this point, that's the only thing that I can't fully comprehend about this chapter.
If you weren't referring to that part of my post, I apologize for assuming things.
Gaara's name doesn't actually mean "a self-loving carnage". It actually means something closer to "one who loves oneself". What you're talking about is the saying his name was supposedly derived from, but that's not the literal meaning of his name.

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BTW seeing the Temari arguments, i think a changed Gaara will be able to help in that matter. I mean Temari is also one who was raised to neglect the feelings and be a "perfect" ninja.
Well, yeah that was the story during the chuunin exams. But when Pt II came around and Gaara was kidnapped, she and Kankurou were just as emotional as any Konoha nin. None of the Sand ninja are the ruthless bullies they were during the chuunin exams. They're all about love, peace and all that good stuff Naruto stands for.
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Old 2011-07-17, 18:14   Link #92
Fran~
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Actually, it would be quite easy to avoid plotholes if Kishi didn't insist on ruining every single aspect of this once very good manga.
That's why i think that's a bad idea to run mangas for so many years, there are exceptions, off course (Oda).

A decade of Naruto is just too much. It's way more wiser 2 5-years manga than a decade of a single manga. But editorials don't think so. There you have Bleach too. As i said, there are exceptions, but they are only a few (Oda).
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Old 2011-07-17, 19:25   Link #93
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Don't worry
We must remember that is impossible to avoid some plotholes. Gaara's story was written years ago, so i don't believe that Kishi can fit every story in the actual plot.
Do you have a particular "plot-hole" in mind in regards to Gaara's back-story? Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see what what this development (his father lying) really "breaks" in his back-story.
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Old 2011-07-17, 20:06   Link #94
Fran~
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Do you have a particular "plot-hole" in mind in regards to Gaara's back-story? Perhaps I'm wrong, but I don't see what what this development (his father lying) really "breaks" in his back-story.
Actually no .

Again, as i posted before and as you said it, this chapter doesn't change the fact that Gaara's childhood was a painful experience. Perhaps the mention to his mother can confirm Gaara's redemption.

But, besides that, i like to remember that this manga has 10 years of serialization and Kishi has his up and downs with the plot. So, in the case that we would find a plothole or some "plotkey" development, we must remember that Kishi is dealing with this manga and the wishes of the editorial for a decade, depending on the situation it could be understandable
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Old 2011-07-18, 02:58   Link #95
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Imo the only true plot-hole in all of Naruto so far is the tailed beasts lending their power to their host to protect them from dying, when it turned out that if the host dies the beasts are simply reborn. So they are probably better off actually letting the host die.
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Old 2011-07-18, 10:17   Link #96
Fran~
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Actually, to me the biggest question is if Kishi was really serious about Neji's prediction about fate/destiny when he came with the idea of the events about Naruto's birth and his link with such great ninjas as Minato and Kushina or the idea of the prophecy's child.
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Old 2011-07-18, 10:44   Link #97
Ulquiorra
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Actually, to me the biggest question is if Kishi was really serious about Neji's prediction about fate/destiny when he came with the idea of the events about Naruto's birth and his link with such great ninjas as Minato and Kushina or the idea of the prophecy's child.
That's not a plot hole. Call it an evolution. The idea that hard work could trump genetics, and his views on destiny, are ideas Kishimoto has long since abandoned. But should any of us be shocked? Rare is a shonen hero who is not special and birthed from greatness. They are always the chosen one. Westerners tend to prefer the rags to riches story. But I don't think they are complaining in Japan about Naruto being a Jesus Sue born from the Virgin Kushina and God aka boring blond guy.

But that discussion belongs here. Neji was Right!

To defend Kishi, 10 years is too long for any author to write in one universe and expect it to be consistent. American comic book writers are always changing their established canon.

The manga Kishomoto probably envisioned even 7 years ago is likely far different than the one he is writing today.

Another topic. Does anyone hate the idea of Dust release? Way too DBZ for me. The idea that one ninja can wipe out 10,000. I actually dislike these more powerful jutsu that are popping up in Shippuden. And Kishi wonders why the Rookies look so weak compared to the elites. Remember when we use to be impressed with them? The whole power curve is out of wack.
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Old 2011-07-18, 10:57   Link #98
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^We've known about Army-Killing Jutsus since near the beginning of the series. The Giant summons were originally presented as such a jutsu, not to mention Minato's teleportation. True there is an increase in the number of such jutsus later in the series, but with the influx of characters and other nations, it is only obvious that more such techniques would be unveiled.

As for Dust Release...well, I don't really understand the technique. It splits molecules, which sounds overpowered, until you recall that Naruto can do something similar with the FRS (it "cuts" on a cellular level, not molecular, but the Sage Mode and Kyuubi Mode versions are probably molecular).

Ultimately, this is simply Kishimoto's way of showcasing Kages...which still makes Tsunade look all the worse .
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Old 2011-07-18, 14:08   Link #99
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American comic book writers are always changing their established canon.
Not the best example, since 99% of the time it's a different writer that's retconning something.

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^We've known about Army-Killing Jutsus since near the beginning of the series. The Giant summons were originally presented as such a jutsu, not to mention Minato's teleportation. True there is an increase in the number of such jutsus later in the series, but with the influx of characters and other nations, it is only obvious that more such techniques would be unveiled.
Oh yeah. Remember when summoning jutsu did something? Now you get characters punching a summon and one-shotting it, or being used just for some random ability (ie: flight, teleportation, healing, communication). I don't think summons have actually been displayed as a worthwhile offensive tool since the Jiraiya/Tsunade/Orochimaru battle pre-time skip.
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Old 2011-07-18, 14:38   Link #100
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After so many years in DB/DBZ people were already blowing up planets
A 12 year old "dropout" could do kage bunshin, what do you expect from the strongest and often legendary ninjas.
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