AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-01-18, 06:13   Link #921
Shiroth
Beautiful fighter.
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: England, UK
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
I definitely think there is a bit too much crying in this series...that being said I was still emotionally affected at that scene...I think I just love these kids too much.
I'm a sucker for this type of drama, so i don't have a problem with the amount of tears in this episode. Actually, i found it spot on for Taichi's development/decision he was creating for himself.
__________________
Shiroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-18, 06:53   Link #922
Blaat
AS member for 10 years
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Personally I didn't even notice that the characters were crying a lot, after Uchuu no Stellvia you grow an immunity to character's crying.
__________________
Blaat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-18, 08:11   Link #923
Kirarakim
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiroth View Post
I'm a sucker for this type of drama, so i don't have a problem with the amount of tears in this episode. Actually, i found it spot on for Taichi's development/decision he was creating for himself.
Taichi crying after losing when he came so close was one thing. Nor did I mind when Chihaya cried after her loss.

But I think the entire team crying after the match was a bit much. I love the series and the characters but a little subtlety with the emotions would not hurt.
__________________
Kirarakim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-18, 09:26   Link #924
KyriaL
You are Reading this!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: In the study room
Well its understandable to a point if you cry because something that you love dearly or have a real passion for is lost. But it does try to get a little too emotional at certain parts.

However its a little surprising as the role of the main rival to Chihaya has changed from Arata to Shinobu, perhaps the long period of time of not sparring with Arata has an effect on Chihaya?
KyriaL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-18, 12:26   Link #925
Haak
F**k my life...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
After watching Shinobu, I've now come to the conclusion that all female karuta players are fucking crazy...
__________________
Haak is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-18, 12:34   Link #926
kitten320
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Age: 23
I think Shinobu used to play with others at a young age but once she started to over come everyone, people most likely started to avoid her. In the end it is better to play by yourself than always get side glances and giving up in the middle of a game.

Looks like she got someone to worry about especially since Chihaya is female, Queen title can be taken away.

By the way does anyone know if there will be season 2 or it will be an anime original ending? Because going by manga series seem to be only 1/4 past. Not even half.
__________________
kitten320 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-18, 13:52   Link #927
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Kagurazaka, Tokyo
Based on minimal BD sales and modest jump in manga sales, I suspect a second season is extremely unlikely.
Guardian Enzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-18, 15:24   Link #928
LKK
Moderator
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Virginia, USA
Age: 52
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
However, I think the intention might simply be to reinforce Nishida's character as someone who knows the pain of being second place, and his tears can be read not so much as sympathy for Taichi but rather a sublimation of his intense engagement in Taichi's match such that he felt like he was playing himself. That is to say, perhaps Nishida was crying from his own pain, because in comparison to Taichi (who said to himself, "I haven't put in the time") who just became passionate about karuta today, the one who most experienced the bitterness of failure this time might in fact have been Nishida.
I agree. I think during Taichi's match, Nishida wasn't really seeing Taichi playing some unnamed opponent. Rather he was seeing himself competing with young Arata again. We know how deeply that match affected Nishida. Perhaps subliminally, Nishida was hoping that if Taichi won, then Nishida's own loss might be wiped from his memories. But Taichi's win didn't happen and Nishida, so swept up in his memories, had to relive his second place finish once again.
__________________

Avatar: Hazuki of Natsuyuki Rendezvous / Signature: flowers from Natsuyuki Rendezvous
My manga list | My anime DVD list
LKK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-18, 23:13   Link #929
Master_Yoma
Nekokota Festival
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Lost in the Fairy Forest
Dam the Queen she looks like she was going kill Chihaya
__________________
Master_Yoma is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-18, 23:49   Link #930
monir
cho~ kakkoii
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Quote:
Originally Posted by LKK
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
However, I think the intention might simply be to reinforce Nishida's character as someone who knows the pain of being second place, and his tears can be read not so much as sympathy for Taichi but rather a sublimation of his intense engagement in Taichi's match such that he felt like he was playing himself. That is to say, perhaps Nishida was crying from his own pain, because in comparison to Taichi (who said to himself, "I haven't put in the time") who just became passionate about karuta today, the one who most experienced the bitterness of failure this time might in fact have been Nishida.
I agree. I think during Taichi's match, Nishida wasn't really seeing Taichi playing some unnamed opponent. Rather he was seeing himself competing with young Arata again. We know how deeply that match affected Nishida. Perhaps subliminally, Nishida was hoping that if Taichi won, then Nishida's own loss might be wiped from his memories. But Taichi's win didn't happen and Nishida, so swept up in his memories, had to relive his second place finish once again.
Add to it, the others were also emotionally involved and was soaking into the intensity as Taichi was engaged at giving his all. He is constantly inspiring every one of them one way or the other. Naturally Taichi's loss resonated within them with such force and only way to project that emotion for the audience was to "cry." I like this show simply because I can follow it more or less at what they are driving at and why they are going about it in a certain way. Aside for the cultural reason, the crying also signify how this team is coming together and how their bond is getting stronger. While the game is played individually, they are still a team. If they want to get better at Karuta, they need to be driven at it to work hard. And to be driven, inspiration will be needed. Taichi provided that inspiration, the drive, the desire for them to get better at it. While Nishida could empathize with Taichi, he was also inspired by how Taichi held himself together. No wonder Nishida wants to match Chihaiya's pace as they were running to increase stamina.
__________________
Eat and sleep! And Solace. Sig by RRW.
Space Brothers Executive member of the ASS. Ready to flee at the first sign of trouble.
monir is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-19, 07:52   Link #931
kyouray
2D > 3D
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: France
Age: 25
Interesting interview with the director Morio Asaka (via @crazynabe). Second interview with Atsuko Ishizuka (storyboard of episode 2) will be up next week.
Nice to see Madhouse caring for overseas & translating their columns.
__________________
kyouray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-19, 08:27   Link #932
Undertaker
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: U.S.
Madhouse has been pretty close to U.S. as far as market goes for a long time since the days of Ninja Scroll. Not to mention the collaboration they had with Marvel last year.

Favorite part of interview, Arata is a Gap Moe which by definition so is Shinobu.
__________________
Undertaker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-19, 09:22   Link #933
hyperborealis
Lost at Sea
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
There is a large gap in skill between Sudou and Chihaiya. I'm pretty certain Sudou established himself early on against Shinobou, but when Chiahaiya was playing Shinobu, she was being decimated systematically. With Sudou, Shinobou had an idea about her opponent. Chihaiya was someone who showed all the characteristic of amaeture who would eventually give up as she was being crushed. And then she revolts, tries to fight the inevitable and even rallies to take a few cards, five in all. At one point, she was actually playing to win. Considering the set of skill Shinobou possesses and how she has outplayed Chihaiya up until near the end, it must have been infuriating to see Chihaiya's self belief that she can actually win against Shinobu. How dare she!

Shinobu is extremely cute!
Not so large a skill gap. If you count the number of cards played to the end of the match from the tie card from the last episode, and give the tie card to Chihaya, she takes 6 cards and Shinobu takes 7. In other words, from the point Chihaya got going she played Shinobu very nearly evenly. Shinobu knows this--that's why she's so upset, and why she makes a point of finding out Chihaya's name.

------------

Counting cards on Taichi's match: when Chihaya comes in, Taichi is up by 3 cards. He then eventually loses by 3 cards, taking 8 cards to his opponent's 14. Taichi loses in a come-from-behind victory by his opponent. I think this helps explain why everyone on the Mizusawa team took the loss so keenly. It certainly underlines his later point to the team that they need to work on their stamina in their matches. Odd--this takes us back to that argument he had with Chihaya about pushing the newbies too hard: while he was right that she was overdoing it, he needed to have been listening to her point that they needed to develop the stamina to compete for hours on end. Better late than never...
__________________
.

A Blossoming Flower in the Snowy Winter

Last edited by hyperborealis; 2012-01-19 at 12:32.
hyperborealis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-19, 13:23   Link #934
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperborealis View Post
Not so large a skill gap. If you count the number of cards played to the end of the match from the tie card from the last episode, and give the tie card to Chihaya, she takes 6 cards and Shinobu takes 7. In other words, from the point Chihaya got going she played Shinobu very nearly evenly.
I disagree. Chihaya took 3 cards consecutively during the time Shinobu had lost her concentration due to Chihaya's comeback. But once Shinobu put herself together, Chihaya only takes 2 more cards whereas Shinobu takes the 7 you're talking about.

So yeah, if both are playing at their best the gap is considerable, and Chihaya knows it. Shinobu's interest in knowing who Chihaya was has to do with something else though...
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-19, 15:17   Link #935
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperborealis View Post
Not so large a skill gap. If you count the number of cards played to the end of the match from the tie card from the last episode, and give the tie card to Chihaya, she takes 6 cards and Shinobu takes 7. In other words, from the point Chihaya got going she played Shinobu very nearly evenly. Shinobu knows this--that's why she's so upset, and why she makes a point of finding out Chihaya's name.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I disagree. Chihaya took 3 cards consecutively during the time Shinobu had lost her concentration due to Chihaya's comeback. But once Shinobu put herself together, Chihaya only takes 2 more cards whereas Shinobu takes the 7 you're talking about.

So yeah, if both are playing at their best the gap is considerable, and Chihaya knows it. Shinobu's interest in knowing who Chihaya was has to do with something else though...
I think the differences in Chihaya's and Sudou's performances comes down not so much to a difference in skill, but in playing styles. Shinobu's stronger reaction to Chihaya is due, probably, not so much to the number of cards Chihaya took, but rather the cards which Chihaya was taking.

Remember that Shinobu plays defensive karuta. That means the foremost element of her playing style is maintaining control of her own side. Offensive karuta is the style whereby one aggressively focuses on taking cards from the opponent's space; thus the difference "by the numbers" between Chihaya and Sudou's performances can be inferred to be due to the mismatch of Chihaya's style against Shinobu's greatest strength; but at the same time that Chihaya managed to take that many cards from inside Shinobu's territory at all explains her terrible reaction.

We can infer from Sudou's performance against Shinobu that he is indeed more skilled than Chihaya defensively. All 13 of the cards he took, I suspect, he obtained by successfully defending them on his own side. However, all that this makes Sudou is perhaps a weaker version of Shinobu; that Chihaya's offensive prowess managed to defeat Sudou, but not Shinobu, reinforces the difference in skill revealed by Shinobu's win over Sudou by 12 cards.

Incidentally, speaking of offensive and defensive space, I guess I think I've stumbled across something here in terms of how karuta players must deal with memorization. Defensive space, the area you must control, is easier to protect because you are more familiar with it. On your side of the field, the cards are placed at your own convenience; because you can gradually develop successful habits and order them by your own preferences, memorization of your own side of the field probably eventually becomes trivial. The greater challenge, then, and purpose of the 15 minutes memorization time, is imprinting and becoming familiar with the opponent's playing field. When they talk about Chihaya's lack of memory, and her offensive karuta style becoming stronger in the game's late stages, this is probably what they are referring to. Chihaya's strength at offensive karuta seems to come from her ability to apply intense, singled-minded focus. When the cards on Chihaya's opponent's side are few, this becomes much easier. Moreover because, when one takes a card from the opponents field in karuta, you then send one of your own cards over, when Chihaya gets into that groove it can become something like a chain. If Chihaya's opponents' specialty is not offensive karuta, then even without incredible skill in defensive karuta she can probably maintain control of her own side of the field. With her opponent's field reduced to a size that she can apply her full focus to, comparatively, Chihaya can keep on taking cards from their area aggressively to persistently reduce the size of her own hand.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 33/5 :: Locodol 30/5 :: Yama no Susume 60/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 02:05   Link #936
hyperborealis
Lost at Sea
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I think the differences in Chihaya's and Sudou's performances comes down not so much to a difference in skill, but in playing styles. Shinobu's stronger reaction to Chihaya is due, probably, not so much to the number of cards Chihaya took, but rather the cards which Chihaya was taking.

Remember that Shinobu plays defensive karuta. That means the foremost element of her playing style is maintaining control of her own side. Offensive karuta is the style whereby one aggressively focuses on taking cards from the opponent's space; thus the difference "by the numbers" between Chihaya and Sudou's performances can be inferred to be due to the mismatch of Chihaya's style against Shinobu's greatest strength; but at the same time that Chihaya managed to take that many cards from inside Shinobu's territory at all explains her terrible reaction.
Yes. Thus Harada-sensei's remark to Chihaya: "Chihaya-chan, think about it. / if you can take a card from the far row of a player / who's big on defense, / you'll give them a big shock." And the first card Chihaya takes is not only in back row, but in the far left corner, the safest place for a left-handed player like Shinobu, the area Taichi names to himself "the Queen's favored side." That had to be a shot to the heart. Then she does it again with the Chihayafuru card, which is once more on Shinobu's left side. Double shot to the heart.

And even after Shinobu gets fired up in response, Chihaya is still able to take cards from her. Shinobu takes two cards, and smirks, thinking she is back in control, and then Chihaya takes still another card from her. At this point the animation stops showing us the actual sequence of play, but we know from the card count that Chihaya will take two more cards and Shinobu will take 5 to close out the match.

As you point out, Sol, Shinobu's style of play is predicated on a logic of control. Chihaya's capacity to take cards--even when Shinobu is playing all out--means Shinobu is not in control, and that is psychologically shattering to her. Shinobu's behavior after the match is quite telling: the standing in thought at the door, her hands in fists; the fast walk to the scorer's table; ignoring the official; leaning over the table with her face inches from the surface; her manic repetition of Chihaya's name; and especially the mad look on her face, which stuns the official--all of this tells us that Shinobu is either on the verge of or at the very point of a psychological break.

All of this is just to add illustration to Sol's point, but I consider that a privilege.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
We can infer from Sudou's performance against Shinobu that he is indeed more skilled than Chihaya defensively. All 13 of the cards he took, I suspect, he obtained by successfully defending them on his own side. However, all that this makes Sudou is perhaps a weaker version of Shinobu; that Chihaya's offensive prowess managed to defeat Sudou, but not Shinobu, reinforces the difference in skill revealed by Shinobu's win over Sudou by 12 cards.
Brilliant, but I think it's more complicated than this. I rewatched Sudou's match against Chihaya in the regionals, and there Harada-sensei says explicitly that "his [ie Sudou's] style is also offensive." But perhaps Shinobu's defensive prowess forces other players to play defensively willy-nilly, and so if Sudou plays like a weaker version of Shinobu, that is because she forces him to do so. We see that happen a little anyway in his match with Chihaya, where by the end he switches from offensive to defensive tactics, beset by her aggressive play.

Again, we come back to the question of control. Number of cards taken or given don't measure this. Even if Sudou scores better against Shinobu that Chihaya does, we know from their conversation after the match, where Shinobu toys with his feelings, that she was completely in control all the way through. That is why I think you are probably right to think he does play defensively against her, but only because she compels him to, as a measure of her control, of her ability to force him to play her game, rather than his own.

So this is the key difference between the two matches: right through the end, Chihaya is still playing her game of offensive karuta, notwithstanding Shinobu's best efforts otherwise. Unlike Sudou, who can only envisage winning if Shinobu lets him, Chihaya is still, as the spectator remarks, "playing to win." I don't think it's accidental that Chihaya starts thinking at this point how she can become more "free:" the freedom of movement she envisages for herself, and which she equates with playing strength, is also that which allows her to set at naught other players' efforts to control her.
__________________
.

A Blossoming Flower in the Snowy Winter
hyperborealis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 02:23   Link #937
GundamZZ
残念美人
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
So, the conclusion is Chihaya is not too far behind Sudo. However, Chihaya's ability is rather unstable. First of all, she's stunned by Shinobu-chan's speed. To win, she is also willing to take the risk. Sometimes, it works in her favor. Sometimes, it works against her. She could lose the weaker opponent in that fashion. When she gap with the current Queen, she takes the chance to to make the change. She needs a lot of time to catch up.
Chihaya has her advantages. To summarize:

Precision: Shinobu-chan > Chihaya-chan
Accuracy: Shinobu-chan > Chihaya-chan
Speed: Shinobu-chan > Chihaya-chan
Tactics: Shinobu-chan > Chihaya-chan
Hearing: Chihaya-chan > Shinobu-chan
Intuition: Chihaya-chan > Shinobu-chan
__________________
流麗のヒステリア Hysteria of flowing beautifully
三つ腕のリヒティ Lichty of three arms
重剣のクロエ Chloe of giant sword
天啓のシスティーナ Sistina of Apocalypse
愛憎のロクサーヌ Roxanne of distinguished love and hate
万有のルテーシア Lutécia of everything
塵喰いのカサンドラ Cassandra of eating dust
GundamZZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 02:25   Link #938
Kazu-kun
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by hyperborealis View Post
her manic repetition of Chihaya's name; and especially the mad look on her face, which stuns the official--all of this tells us that Shinobu is either on the verge of or at the very point of a psychological break.
lol, that was just for comedy effects. You're taking that scene way too seriously. I wouldn't assume too much about Shinobu's behaviour or her strong reaction to Chihaya during the match at this point. Everything is going to be explained in due time (well, depending how far the anime will go...)
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic39230_3.gif
Kazu-kun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 03:04   Link #939
GundamZZ
残念美人
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Everything is going to be explained in due time (well, depending how far the anime will go...)
I don't think it's going to be explained. It's just a beginning. I think there are more crazy girls in the karuta/caruta society, but they are still harmless.
__________________
流麗のヒステリア Hysteria of flowing beautifully
三つ腕のリヒティ Lichty of three arms
重剣のクロエ Chloe of giant sword
天啓のシスティーナ Sistina of Apocalypse
愛憎のロクサーヌ Roxanne of distinguished love and hate
万有のルテーシア Lutécia of everything
塵喰いのカサンドラ Cassandra of eating dust
GundamZZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-01-20, 11:20   Link #940
hyperborealis
Lost at Sea
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
The manga is irrelevant to the anime. The anime stands on its own. The responsibility of the anime scriptwriters is not to reproduce the manga, but to use it as a basis to create a complete, self-sustaining story. To that end, we have already seen the anime diverge in significant ways from the manga: in the form of retelling the elementary school days as a flashback, and in completely rewriting the process by which Nishida joins the karuta club. Given the limited amount of time the animators still have to work with, the anime might even conclude with an anime-specific ending. That is not illegitimate--that is just the prerogative of the anime creators to tell a complete story, which is finally their own story.

So, to interpret the anime in terms of the manga is a misinterpretation of the anime. It is an assumption that the anime has to follow, in detail, in theme, in concept, in plot the model of the manga. This assumption is false.

The reason there are separate threads for the manga and the anime is not simply to prevent spoilers. It is also to prevent just this kind of misinterpretation.

To be specific: Kazu-kun, you are flat-out wrong to interpret Shinobu's reaction as "comedy effects." This is not a matter of my opinion versus your opinion. There is no evidence within the anime itself that this moment is to be understood comically. Your only evidence is something you read further on in the manga, and not anything at all within the anime itself. Consequently, that material is irrelevant to the anime. It will only ever become relevant should the anime choose to incorporate it, and then that will be since the anime made that decision, and not due to any extrinsic authority or standing the manga has in relation to the anime. At this point the anime has not brought that later material in (and I strongly doubt it will, given the care and detail and focus given to the animation of Shinobu's distress). So that later material from the manga is at this point absolutely irrelevant.

Now, it is interesting to compare the anime and the manga. You can learn more about each of them if you do so. But that is only to bring out each of the version's own distinct character and qualities, which includes even the degree the one follows the other. The two remain distinct.

To repeat: the manga is irrelevant to the anime. The anime stands on its own.

I urge everyone to watch the anime for its own sake, and in its own terms.
__________________
.

A Blossoming Flower in the Snowy Winter
hyperborealis is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
josei, madhouse

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:49.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.