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Old 2003-11-16, 23:04   Link #21
s0nicfreak
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I've watched anime my whole life (18.5 years). I liked DB/Z/GT (yes I'll admit it I even liked GT) in Japanese. I like Inuyasha and Pokemon in Japanese.

I don't like dubs because I don't like listening to people speak english for 25 mins. English is annoying to me, weither it be in anime, irl or any other form. But I'm happy that I can go to the store and buy Pokemon, DBZ & Yu-gi-oh (I like the manga but not the anime) shirts instead of having to pay shipping fees to order them from Japan.

Anyway
I don't like ppl who say db/z/gt and pokemon are not real anime. DB/Z was obviously popular enough in japan to be on for like 12 years. Pokemon has always been one of the most popular anime in japan since it began airing and still is. Before these became popular in america, there were only like 1/1000 the amount of people that didnt like them (db/z especialy).

But I also don't like ppl who are like 12+, see db, pokemon, inuyasha or etc. and suddenly decide they like anime. Even (or realy, especialy) if they start to find out more about anime and start watching subs & fansubs... They seem like otaku-wannabes to me.

Actualy now that I think about it, weither ppl like mainstream anime or weither they don't, weither they are elitist or not, I don't like just about everyone.
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Old 2003-11-16, 23:29   Link #22
Keitaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by s0nicfreak
I've watched anime my whole life (18.5 years). I liked DB/Z/GT (yes I'll admit it I even liked GT) in Japanese. I like Inuyasha and Pokemon in Japanese.

I don't like dubs because I don't like listening to people speak english for 25 mins. English is annoying to me, weither it be in anime, irl or any other form. But I'm happy that I can go to the store and buy Pokemon, DBZ & Yu-gi-oh (I like the manga but not the anime) shirts instead of having to pay shipping fees to order them from Japan.

Anyway
I don't like ppl who say db/z/gt and pokemon are not real anime. DB/Z was obviously popular enough in japan to be on for like 12 years. Pokemon has always been one of the most popular anime in japan since it began airing and still is. Before these became popular in america, there were only like 1/1000 the amount of people that didnt like them (db/z especialy).

But I also don't like ppl who are like 12+, see db, pokemon, inuyasha or etc. and suddenly decide they like anime. Even (or realy, especialy) if they start to find out more about anime and start watching subs & fansubs... They seem like otaku-wannabes to me.

Actualy now that I think about it, weither ppl like mainstream anime or weither they don't, weither they are elitist or not, I don't like just about everyone.
ok.....I agree somewhat with what your saying but I think its a good thing that 12+ kids are watching anime such as DB, Pokemon or inuyasha which by the way are good anime series. I want more people to get into anime and enjoy it. I think by watching those mainstream anime it opens a door to the real world of japanese anime. So I think its a good thing to have anime on american tv stations such as Cartoon Networks Toonami.

I also dont give a rip whether ppl like mainstream anime or not. Why should you care, you should like what you like not what others tell you. So go and watch fansubs or DBZ on Toonami, and enjoy anime for what it is.
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Old 2003-11-16, 23:48   Link #23
method
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, so most anime comes out on kid hours, therefore they edit a lot of stuff out. I mean look at simpsons, its no edited, cusses, blood, and racial slurs. If they put some anime on Fox at 8pm they could do that too.
What version of the Simpsons were you watching. The worse word in Simpsons was maybe damn or something like, there were no racial slurs in the show either. Most of the instances of blood has used in comical situations. Anyway the audience for anime is too small for network tv to even consider it.
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Old 2003-11-17, 01:25   Link #24
hunterx
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yea but it's not just anime. once something becomes mainstream then everyone hates it. anime, music, games, movies, even sports teams and operating systems. That's just the way it goes
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Old 2003-11-17, 01:32   Link #25
Keitaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hunterx
yea but it's not just anime. once something becomes mainstream then everyone hates it. anime, music, games, movies, even sports teams and operating systems. That's just the way it goes
Well its their choice to hate it, they will soon realize its really stupid to hate something just because its mainstream and that everyone knows about it. I think no one should care it its mainstream or not.
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Old 2003-11-17, 01:41   Link #26
s0nicfreak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by method
there were no racial slurs in the show either
http://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache...ng_ja&ie=UTF-8

Not to mention that it's full of racial stereotyping...
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Old 2003-11-17, 02:16   Link #27
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People try to seek uniqueness, i know i do
I mean, Im not going to go to some poser sellout punk band concert and buy a shirt, only to find out 50 people from school went and bought it. Im going to go to a hardcore punk band show and buy the shirt that maybe 10 kids even know what the band is.
It is similar with anime. When I saw Furi Kuri for the first time in japanese it was great, no one knew what it was or anything (at my school), and it opened me to The Pillows, which now i have a few cds. Then it was release mainstream, all these kids would talk about it and say how cool the songs were and shit, they didnt know who sang the songs, in fact they didn't probably even know what the parodys in it were about. Furi Kuri is still on my top list, but doesnt seem so cool to talk about with all these lamers at my school. Now this could just because Im antisocial with lamers, but i think Im better off safe then sorry and no speak with them.
Where i was going with this, who knows. But there is a point within this junk of writing, or so atleast i hope there is ^_^
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Old 2003-11-17, 02:24   Link #28
Keitaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Neoelement
People try to seek uniqueness, i know i do
I mean, Im not going to go to some poser sellout punk band concert and buy a shirt, only to find out 50 people from school went and bought it. Im going to go to a hardcore punk band show and buy the shirt that maybe 10 kids even know what the band is.
It is similar with anime. When I saw Furi Kuri for the first time in japanese it was great, no one knew what it was or anything (at my school), and it opened me to The Pillows, which now i have a few cds. Then it was release mainstream, all these kids would talk about it and say how cool the songs were and shit, they didnt know who sang the songs, in fact they didn't probably even know what the parodys in it were about. Furi Kuri is still on my top list, but doesnt seem so cool to talk about with all these lamers at my school. Now this could just because Im antisocial with lamers, but i think Im better off safe then sorry and no speak with them.
Where i was going with this, who knows. But there is a point within this junk of writing, or so atleast i hope there is ^_^
I feel really sorry for you if you think like that. If they dont know shit about the pillows or what parodys were in flcl then educate them. I dont get ppl who are like this, its very immature to think this way.
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Old 2003-11-17, 02:43   Link #29
Mr. Bushido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by method
What version of the Simpsons were you watching. The worse word in Simpsons was maybe damn or something like, there were no racial slurs in the show either. Most of the instances of blood has used in comical situations. Anyway the audience for anime is too small for network tv to even consider it.
well.... let me start this post with a quote of grandpa simpson

"Bitch, bitch, bitch, why is it always the bitch?"

and one from Homer

"What!? thats insane, thats almost as unheard of as SMART italiens!"

oh yea how about Marge.

"Now we can be like the french, or we can do something about it"

yea just few examples.

It doesnt matter, they show blood. i dont see comical blood on the FOX BOX, have you?
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Old 2003-11-17, 07:41   Link #30
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Japanese animations were obviously made for kids in the first place. If not, what are Doraemon and Astroboy...

I think the reason why more anime with adult themes and deep storyline are popping out is because we the anime fans who grew up watching Astroboy has grown-up too. The Anime Industry is definitely not going to stay stagnent and produce anime for kids only. Why abandon the old audience when you can make something for them too? Thus movies like GITS was produced for the lot who had developed an appetite for something more mature.

Anime-elitists are merely misleaded people who think they are superior because they think they have seen the best. Hell, I think Japanese are probably so used to anime on TV that they forgets about the series as soon as a new one replaces it.

Just my 2 cent.
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Old 2003-11-17, 07:45   Link #31
Radd
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Reread that definition of 'elitist'. It definitely fits the attitude of a lot of anime fans.

Personally, I think there are many groups of elitists within the anime fandom, each feeling superior for different reasons and calling the others 'elitists' because they don't like what they like.

First you've got the oldschoolers, people that think all anime after 19xx is all flash and no substance, and that the anime fandom has been going downhill ever since such and such a year or such and such a show that was obviously superior to anything since, why can't you people see it!? How can you stand these bland, uninteresting character designs, when characters 10 years ago looked so much better?

Then you've got the Newtypes, anything older than 19xx, or even 20xx in some cases, is trash. Crappy animation, bad dialogue, too many ongoing series that are difficult to follow unless you see them all in order! Why do you like that Harlock crap? It's fugly! Give me Last Exile any day!

Then you've got the Anti-Socialist Revolution, people that imeadiately hate anything that becomes popular in the 'mainstream'. If it's been on cartoon network, has '-mon' at the end of the title, or has been seen by more than 2 out of 10 anime fans, it must be overhyped, overdone, and overrated.

Then you've got the Mainstreamers, people that can't stand anything that isn't popular! People that like shows because they're popular (of course most who fit into this group would never admit it, but they do exist). People that can't stand trying to read subtitles while listening to people talk in that silly sounding "ping-chong-yang" language. People that think that a character's or mecha's powers or abilities are what makes them so insanely cool "Goku would kick anyone's ass!" "Wang Zero Custom PWNZ0RZ J00!"

Then there's the Purists, those who not only prefer subs, but will only watch subbed anime. Dubs aren't worth their time. Generally these guys fit in with the Anti-Socialist Revolution comrades.

Let's not forget the Otaku. These people can lean heavily towards any of the previously mentioned groups, but they also tend to like anything Japanese, BECAUSE it's Japanese. People that like almost any anime, simply because it's anime, regardless of the quality/genre/theme/whatever.

There's the Anti-Pokemon Hate League, people that hate Pokemon for no other reason than it's Pokemon. Sure, they'll spout reasons, but often they make these up as they go along. Many probably haven't even seen the show, or played the games. Pokemon's popular enough that it makes an easy target, so they feel they get 'cool points' by taking potshots whenever possible. Sure, this group probably fits nicely under the Anti-Socialist Revolution, but they're a loud enough group that they deserved a group of their own.

I'm bound to be leaving groups out, but I'm certain we've all ran into some of these stereotypes at one point or another. Heck, most of us probably fit into one or more of these stereotypes, at least a little.
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Old 2003-11-17, 07:50   Link #32
Radd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tboz
Japanese animations were obviously made for kids in the first place. If not, what are Doraemon and Astroboy...

I think the reason why more anime with adult themes and deep storyline are popping out is because we the anime fans who grew up watching Astroboy has grown-up too. T

There's been adult orient anime for ages now. Even Astroboy isn't entirely a 'kids show' as american audiences think of such, it's more of an 'all ages' sort of show, and even then much of it was cut out or edited, to make it "safe" for american child audiences.

Adult oriented anime is nothing new, a little bit of searching through anime from the 50's-70s and you'll find tons of shows that wouldn't be considered "for kids".
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Old 2003-11-17, 08:11   Link #33
Tboz
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Maybe there are but can we name them at our fingertips? Yes?

Still, the anime series that were brought out of Japan are likely those suitable for kids (with or without cuts), I haven't seen any of the adult-oriented anime when I was young and I probably won't care much of it back then.

Essentially, we are still talking about anime-elitists (nice categorization) who are not Japanese. So what the non-Japanese audiences have seen is more on discussion.
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Old 2003-11-17, 12:19   Link #34
method
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well I guess this is where I say I'm PWNED I guess I'll go and sit in a corner for 5 minutes as punishment.

Well I did see blood in some instances of blood during Tom and Jerry and some of the cartoons like that. Also there was blood in some episodes of Family Guy and that was on at various times, but that doesn't mean anime has any real chance on network tv. Shoot Family Guy had Peter nude.

Lupin the 3rd is one of the bigger titles that could fit.
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Old 2003-11-17, 20:39   Link #35
Radd
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The way it was worded, it sounded as if you were saying anime was originally meant just for kids. My apologies if this wasn't the case.

I can't name many shows from the 1950's in general, aside from Tetsuwan Atom and Tetsujin 28 Go! (which is arguably more mature than your run of the mill kids programming), a lot of the manga from that time period was definitely teen-adult oriented. Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Water Margin, anyone? Those might have been the 60's or possibly even 70's, though.

Starting with the 60's-70's there's a lot more I can name off the top of my head. Mazinger Z, Getter Robo, Space Battleship Yamato (the movie of which apparently induced riots, and can you imagine a bunch of 11-12 year olds tearing things up, smashing windows and filling the streets?), Space Pirate Captain Herlock, Galaxy Express 999, Mobile Suit Gundam. How about that there Lupin III?

Then on through the 80's there's yet more. SDF Macross (even the heavily edited and dumbed down 'Robotech' was well known as a much more mature cartoon than was normal at the time), Bubblegum Crisis, Crusher Joe (though that might have even been the 70's), let' not forget Miyazake's works which are not kiddy material, even if kids can enjoy them just as well as adults.

In Japan, animation just hasn't had the 'kid's stuff' stigma that animation developed in the United States through Disney and Rocky&Bullwinkle (even a lot of older Warner Brothers cartoons were aimed specifically at adults). I haven't even touched the Hentai. You think that stuff is new to the 90's and 2000+?

A lot of the shows I've named have been available in the international market for quite some time. Those that haven't seen legitimate releases until recently, have been popular in the fansub circles for ages.

Heh, I guess I'm showing my age, and my colours.
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Old 2003-11-17, 21:37   Link #36
Mr. Bushido
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radd
The way it was worded, it sounded as if you were saying anime was originally meant just for kids. My apologies if this wasn't the case.

I can't name many shows from the 1950's in general, aside from Tetsuwan Atom and Tetsujin 28 Go! (which is arguably more mature than your run of the mill kids programming), a lot of the manga from that time period was definitely teen-adult oriented. Romance of the Three Kingdoms or Water Margin, anyone? Those might have been the 60's or possibly even 70's, though.

Starting with the 60's-70's there's a lot more I can name off the top of my head. Mazinger Z, Getter Robo, Space Battleship Yamato (the movie of which apparently induced riots, and can you imagine a bunch of 11-12 year olds tearing things up, smashing windows and filling the streets?), Space Pirate Captain Herlock, Galaxy Express 999, Mobile Suit Gundam. How about that there Lupin III?

Then on through the 80's there's yet more. SDF Macross (even the heavily edited and dumbed down 'Robotech' was well known as a much more mature cartoon than was normal at the time), Bubblegum Crisis, Crusher Joe (though that might have even been the 70's), let' not forget Miyazake's works which are not kiddy material, even if kids can enjoy them just as well as adults.

In Japan, animation just hasn't had the 'kid's stuff' stigma that animation developed in the United States through Disney and Rocky&Bullwinkle (even a lot of older Warner Brothers cartoons were aimed specifically at adults). I haven't even touched the Hentai. You think that stuff is new to the 90's and 2000+?

A lot of the shows I've named have been available in the international market for quite some time. Those that haven't seen legitimate releases until recently, have been popular in the fansub circles for ages.

Heh, I guess I'm showing my age, and my colours.
agrees with this guy.

anime or cartoon in general were not only meant for kids. You probably didnt know the mature things because u were younger than. And cartoons are as old as Napoleon. (older)

every cartoon also has 2 joke system. Which means the same joke has several different meanings for several different age levels.

one example is bugs bunny who is playing with a calculator and he says "didnt u know rabbits can multiply"" *raise eyebrows*
to kids its like "hahaha funny he can multiply"
to us its like "hahahha wat a horny rabbit"
you know?
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Old 2003-11-17, 23:30   Link #37
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well, it is pretty annoying when a new show is released like on toonami, and everyone is talking like they know it. I dont see why ppl talk about dbz so bad though. although it isnt great compared to the other shows, who here can honostly admit that they weren't drawn to dbz when they were kids?
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Old 2003-11-18, 04:16   Link #38
Keitaro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiznitty
well, it is pretty annoying when a new show is released like on toonami, and everyone is talking like they know it. I dont see why ppl talk about dbz so bad though. although it isnt great compared to the other shows, who here can honostly admit that they weren't drawn to dbz when they were kids?
I don't let it annoy me when ppl talk about a show like they know it, I think ppl shouldn't care just because its gone mainstream and now everyone is talking about it. Isn't it good for the creators of that particular anime show, this is also true with basically any form of entertainment. I can amit I like DB/DBZ/GT anime series the japanese dubs of course, a lot of ppl hate the dragon ball series because its gone mainstream and now everyone knows about it which by the way is a very selfish way to look at it. If it wasn't for those kinds of ppl who annoy you who give high rating to shows such as DBZ on Toonami, good anime shows wouldn't have been licensed for our viewing pleasure here in the USA.
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Old 2003-11-18, 04:42   Link #39
shiznitty
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yea, japanese dubs rock!, but goku in the japanese one sounds like a little kid. meh
I'm not against mainstream at all. Trigun is out on adult swim, im not going to shun it. What i meant by annoying ppl were those who come to school and talk about the newest episode that aired. I know its not their fault, but you cant help but become exasperated :P
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Old 2003-11-18, 05:35   Link #40
DrWho2002
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OMG! How dare someone else like the same thing as ME!!!!! The nerve of the person. *scoff*
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