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Old 2013-07-30, 00:24   Link #1161
JokerD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
As others said, the main issue with the quantity of giant robots is a lack of pilots.

This is an old school justification for why we have expensive, few, heavily customised weapons. To have only a few valuable pilots means there isn't much point in mass production or cut costs.

Pilots are the bottleneck. The problem? The aliens do not have that issue. So unless humans harm the Kaiju production facilities, they will eventially be overrun by sheer numbers.
They had quite a lot of cadets for Raleigh to try out in the movie...

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Wait did they even say they had a shortage of pilots?

When confronted about the program the UN stated that "we're losing Jaegers faster than we can build them"

They never said anything about lack of pilots. Granted Pentecost told Raleigh that he was the only pilot left but I assumed it was because since they weren't building anymore there was no point to training pilots.
Didn't Pentecost say that the rest of the experenced MK III pilots are dead, something like "You are at the top of the list, the rest are dead" No point in puting 2 newbies in a old machine they the enemy can kill experenced pilots in better machines.

Which begs the point, did they bring back GD because they are planning to recruit Raleigh or was GD the most easily repaired in the scrapyard. Going by that point, since the other rangers were klilled, could the cockpit be the most difficult place (other than the powerplant, maybe) to repair in a jaeger? Since it was pointed out CT was really damaged in the cockpit (Other than finding pilots for it)
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Old 2013-07-30, 02:47   Link #1162
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The implication I took from that was that the other Jaegers were too damaged beyond repair, as the pilots died with their Jaegers and thus probably suffered critical extensive damage.
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Old 2013-07-30, 05:40   Link #1163
ReddyRedWolf
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Since Gipsy Danger is a Double Core I suspect parts from a sister type were taken and integrated. Making Gipsy Danger unique in that regard.

Cherno Alpha was the last of the T-90 series. We also saw Horizon Brave constructed with a Jaeger of the same type. In the Oblivion Bay junkyard we see a Romeo Blue type and a Gipsy Danger type with relatively intact frames. When we saw earlier Romeo Blue and Horizon Brave destroyed with different damages from the later scene.
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Old 2013-07-30, 05:45   Link #1164
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post
They had quite a lot of cadets for Raleigh to try out in the movie...
Note "Try out". We never actually saw that they were drift compatible. For all we know, the Marshall only had brought them in on the off chance that they could establish drift comparability as a shot in the dark. For all we know, the best candidate that Raleigh tried out with would have come into the cockpit with Raleigh, and not created an adequate connection.


At that point, Stacker's plan might have been to make himself Raleigh's partner (since he's a super zen motherfucker who can drift with any Jaeger pilot).
Quote:
Originally Posted by JokerD View Post

Which begs the point, did they bring back GD because they are planning to recruit Raleigh or was GD the most easily repaired in the scrapyard. Going by that point, since the other rangers were klilled, could the cockpit be the most difficult place (other than the powerplant, maybe) to repair in a jaeger? Since it was pointed out CT was really damaged in the cockpit (Other than finding pilots for it)
I'd say least damaged. Remember Gypsy was intact enough to walk away under it's own power. Which is probably more than you could say of allot of other Jaegers that Kaiju had mission killed.
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Old 2013-07-30, 06:56   Link #1165
Hemisphere
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Personally, I wanted to see not just the wrecks of Horizon Brave, Romeo Blue and Tacit Ronin, but also the fights that led to their inevitable ends. It would have made the prologue that much awesome and depressing at the same time.
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Old 2013-07-30, 07:56   Link #1166
JokerD
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OK, just browsed through the novel version of Pacific Rim, apparently Gipsy Danger was in repair/refit for 2 years from 2023 to 2025. (which only manages to last it for 1 test run and 2 sorties )
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Old 2013-07-30, 08:33   Link #1167
Helius
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemisphere View Post
Personally, I wanted to see not just the wrecks of Horizon Brave, Romeo Blue and Tacit Ronin, but also the fights that led to their inevitable ends. It would have made the prologue that much awesome and depressing at the same time.
I'm sure Del Toro had that in mind before he was forced to cut the running time down to a manageable size; and the battle between Gipsy and Knifehead was probably enough mesage sent.
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Old 2013-07-30, 08:42   Link #1168
Mr. DJ
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Wait did they even say they had a shortage of pilots?

When confronted about the program the UN stated that "we're losing Jaegers faster than we can build them"

They never said anything about lack of pilots. Granted Pentecost told Raleigh that he was the only pilot left but I assumed it was because since they weren't building anymore there was no point to training pilots.
Pilots are useless if they can't drift. As mentioned above, all the other Mark III pilots are dead.

Anyhow, saw it, loved it, want M0AR!!!
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Old 2013-07-30, 19:04   Link #1169
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Saw it today too. I gotta say: bloody hell, that was awesome!

Guillermo did his job magnificently there by leaving his mark from start to finish, especially with the kaiju and jaeger scenes. The bar quite is now very high for the next kaiju movie to come out.
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Old 2013-07-30, 20:21   Link #1170
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. DJ View Post
Pilots are useless if they can't drift. As mentioned above, all the other Mark III pilots are dead.

Anyhow, saw it, loved it, want M0AR!!!
Pilots are useless if you can't build them Jaegers to begin with.

Stacker stated that it took almost 14 months to build the first Jaegers. I'm pretty sure given the large population on Earth it shouldn't be too difficult to find enough pilots for the limited amount of Jaegers they could build. It should be easier to find suitable pilots compared to building the machines.

The reason why Raleigh was brought back was because Stacker knew that he was one of the few Jaeger pilots that could control a Jaeger single-handily. If they couldn't find a suitable candidate in time it's possible that Stacker would've just had Raleigh pilot Gipsy himself.
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Old 2013-07-30, 21:49   Link #1171
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Stacker stated that it took almost 14 months to build the first Jaegers. I'm pretty sure given the large population on Earth it shouldn't be too difficult to find enough pilots for the limited amount of Jaegers they could build. It should be easier to find suitable pilots compared to building the machines.
I'm not sure about that. finding pilot candidates who know how to fight and have the physical (Olympian level) abilities to pilot a Jaeger isn't too big of a deal. Finding two people who can do all that AND drift with each-other? That's harder. Since you can't just find two star athletes who happen to know each other. They have to be able to hold up a connection that involves getting into eachother's heads before they even drift together.

This doesn't even cover the possibility that drifting might not just be sociability. It could also be brain chemistry to. The trait to mentally hold up in the drift at all might be as rare as having the body to be an Olympian swimmer. You could have two people who are the best of friends, but just don't have the internal wiring in their heads to hold up to a drift. So basically you're looking at...

1. Perfect physical ability*
2. Perfect neural chemistry*
3. Perfect compatibility with someone else possessing 1-2


Finding people who match this criteria is going to be hard. Especially when you're going to have to create the protocol and scouting and testing methods to find people like this from the ground up.


*I'm guessing the candidates Raleigh was presented with were people who possessed 1-2, and they were testing to see if #3 could stick.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
The reason why Raleigh was brought back was because Stacker knew that he was one of the few Jaeger pilots that could control a Jaeger single-handily. If they couldn't find a suitable candidate in time it's possible that Stacker would've just had Raleigh pilot Gipsy himself.
I think as someone who managed to pilot a Jaeger singlehandidly in combat, I think Stacker would appreciate how it's not exactly a good idea to rely on such a tactic for an entire mission.

More likely Stacker considered himself the ace in the hole if they couldn't find a partner for Raleigh.
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Old 2013-07-30, 21:52   Link #1172
Ithekro
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Meanwhile the United Kingdom as been building an army of Jarger to retake the Empire in the wake of the invasion and weaking of the Pacific powers.
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Old 2013-07-30, 22:03   Link #1173
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
Meanwhile the United Kingdom as been building an army of Jarger to retake the Empire in the wake of the invasion and weaking of the Pacific powers.
I don't think pentecost is amused by such shenanigans!!!
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Old 2013-07-30, 22:42   Link #1174
Ithekro
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I'd blame Torchwood or UNIT.
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Old 2013-07-31, 06:00   Link #1175
Roger Rambo
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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
I'd blame Torchwood or UNIT.
Though more seriously. I don't think Jaegers would be terribly well optimized for fighting conventional armies. They don't have the ranged weapons needed for it, and while Jaegers are incredibly robust, they're more dependent on squishy support infrastructure than Kaiju are.
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Old 2013-07-31, 14:59   Link #1176
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
I'm not sure about that. finding pilot candidates who know how to fight and have the physical (Olympian level) abilities to pilot a Jaeger isn't too big of a deal. Finding two people who can do all that AND drift with each-other? That's harder. Since you can't just find two star athletes who happen to know each other. They have to be able to hold up a connection that involves getting into eachother's heads before they even drift together.

This doesn't even cover the possibility that drifting might not just be sociability. It could also be brain chemistry to. The trait to mentally hold up in the drift at all might be as rare as having the body to be an Olympian swimmer. You could have two people who are the best of friends, but just don't have the internal wiring in their heads to hold up to a drift. So basically you're looking at...

1. Perfect physical ability*
2. Perfect neural chemistry*
3. Perfect compatibility with someone else possessing 1-2


Finding people who match this criteria is going to be hard. Especially when you're going to have to create the protocol and scouting and testing methods to find people like this from the ground up.
It's really just statistics. If it takes 14 months to build a Jaeger that's more than enough time to weed through a large pool. If it's 1% of the human population and you look at Hong Kong which is 12 million people that's 120,000 people which you then weed out the weak ones etc.

So it really falls to how fast they can build the Jaeger.

Quote:
I think as someone who managed to pilot a Jaeger singlehandidly in combat, I think Stacker would appreciate how it's not exactly a good idea to rely on such a tactic for an entire mission.
Raleigh kept pushing Stacker on why he wanted him back and when he finally relented he stated it was because he was one of the few pilots who could control a Jaeger singlehandidly.

Quote:
hough more seriously. I don't think Jaegers would be terribly well optimized for fighting conventional armies. They don't have the ranged weapons needed for it, and while Jaegers are incredibly robust, they're more dependent on squishy support infrastructure than Kaiju are.
The Jaegers are the worse weapons in conventional terms but against the Kaiju they're the perfect countermeasure because they can focus all of that firepower into a single point and adapt.
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Old 2013-07-31, 17:58   Link #1177
Helius
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Oh yeah~~
Images
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Old 2013-07-31, 17:58   Link #1178
ReddyRedWolf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
Though more seriously. I don't think Jaegers would be terribly well optimized for fighting conventional armies. They don't have the ranged weapons needed for it, and while Jaegers are incredibly robust, they're more dependent on squishy support infrastructure than Kaiju are.
Yeah something more along the lines of Battlemechs or similar.




Lasers, cannons and missiles.
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Old 2013-07-31, 18:04   Link #1179
Roger Rambo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
It's really just statistics. If it takes 14 months to build a Jaeger that's more than enough time to weed through a large pool. If it's 1% of the human population and you look at Hong Kong which is 12 million people that's 120,000 people which you then weed out the weak ones etc.

So it really falls to how fast they can build the Jaeger.
You do realize in terms of incredibly rare skills and traits, that one out of a hundred is ludicrously common? That's like the average American high school having over a dozen Usain Bolt or Michael Phelps level student athlete ready to be recruited. This is clearly not the case. 1/100 is way too optimistic. Drift capability could be something like 1/50,000. That's 240 people across all of Hong Kong who are capable of making strong hypothetical drift connections. And how many of THEM do you expect to have the potential of Olympian athletes?

Here's your other problem. Testing for drift capability requires sophisticated brain scanning machines. How exactly do you plan to handle the logistics of brain scanning millions of people across the world to churn out Jaeger pilots on a large scale?

Keep in mind. The backstory of the Mexican Jaeger is that its pilots were a pair of cartel convicts fighting for their freedom. If Jaeger pilots were as common as you're alleging, do you think the Mexican government would make that kind of deal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness View Post
Raleigh kept pushing Stacker on why he wanted him back and when he finally relented he stated it was because he was one of the few pilots who could control a Jaeger singlehandidly.
Which is useful if your copilot becomes incapacitated in the middle of a fight. It's not exactly all that reliable as any kind of long term thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf View Post
Yeah something more along the lines of Battlemechs or similar.




Lasers, cannons and missiles.
Except here's the thing. We already have mobile weapon platforms capable of delivering missiles and cannons against enemies. They're called tanks and jets. What's the purpose of putting such weapons on a walking weapons platform?


The premise behind the Jaeger's is a bit goofy (and the machines themselves are implausible) , but at least it makes a weird kinda sense. You can't splatter Kaiju with artillery (due to Kaiju blue), so you need something that can blunt force trauma a kaiju with repeated punches as energetic as 747 crashes, then suplex the asshole into the ocean.

Last edited by Roger Rambo; 2013-07-31 at 18:16.
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Old 2013-07-31, 20:03   Link #1180
SoldierOfDarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Rambo View Post
You do realize in terms of incredibly rare skills and traits, that one out of a hundred is ludicrously common? That's like the average American high school having over a dozen Usain Bolt or Michael Phelps level student athlete ready to be recruited. This is clearly not the case. 1/100 is way too optimistic. Drift capability could be something like 1/50,000. That's 240 people across all of Hong Kong who are capable of making strong hypothetical drift connections. And how many of THEM do you expect to have the potential of Olympian athletes?
Exactly my point.

That's just Hong Kong. Add in China and the rest of the world then you have the numbers.

Quote:

Here's your other problem. Testing for drift capability requires sophisticated brain scanning machines. How exactly do you plan to handle the logistics of brain scanning millions of people across the world to churn out Jaeger pilots on a large scale?
They had no issues doing it during the first years of the Jaeger program.

Quote:
Keep in mind. The backstory of the Mexican Jaeger is that its pilots were a pair of cartel convicts fighting for their freedom. If Jaeger pilots were as common as you're alleging, do you think the Mexican government would make that kind of deal?
Which is useful if your copilot becomes incapacitated in the middle of a fight. It's not exactly all that reliable as any kind of long term thing.
Desperate circumstances calls of desperate measures.

Besides there's nothing cooler than having ex-convicts forced to fight.

And your forgetting something.

While it's true that the pilots are limited it's not as limited as the Jaegers themselves. The fact that they had about 30 Jaegers in 7-9 years speaks for itself.

So in the end the Jaegers themselves limit it. Not the pilot candidates.

Quote:
Except here's the thing. We already have mobile weapon platforms capable of delivering missiles and cannons against enemies. They're called tanks and jets. What's the purpose of putting such weapons on a walking weapons platform?

The premise behind the Jaeger's is a bit goofy (and the machines themselves are implausible) , but at least it makes a weird kinda sense. You can't splatter Kaiju with artillery (due to Kaiju blue), so you need something that can blunt force trauma a kaiju with repeated punches as energetic as 747 crashes, then suplex the asshole into the ocean.
The idea is that a tank and a jet has a single purpose.

The Jaeger on the other hand can adapt to various situations to combat the Kaiju. If the sword doesn't work, use fists, if that doesn't work, plasma cannon, etc.

On that matter

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansit.../news/?a=84630

Looks like Pacific Rim is breaking the office in China. If that's any indication then Japan should be on par as well.

And in regards to the person who tweeted Warner Bros may not see the money is complete BS. Yes there're issues right now but in business there's a difference between "delaying payment" and actual "not paying." China wants that money so one way or the other it'll be resolved and hopefully for the better.

Hollywood's been fighting hard to get into China and if Pacific Rim succeeds in that area I cannot see them ignoring that.
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