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Old 2012-06-24, 09:36   Link #941
Kaijo
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Took a shower, thought about it, came up with something that would have more neatly handles Korra's airbending issue. Have Tenzin say:

"I've been watching you, Korra. You like to impulsively and emotionally jump in and confront problems head on. Taking what's thrown at you, and giving back more in return. You've never been one to know how to retreat, or how to be patient, or to really study and look at the issue from your opponent's point of view. That's why you're good with fire, earth, and water. But Air is not so much about direct confrontation, as it is about taking your time, trying not to fight, and letting your opponent defeat himself. That's why airbending is so difficult for you. When you can reign in your emotions and resist your impulse to charge ahead on impulse, when you learn when and how to avoid confrontation, I think the block you are having with airbending will go away."

And then, as the series goes on, Korra stops trying to go "I wanna beat up Amon now!" and stops trying to fight him directly, but learns to be patient and use his own tactics against him, fighting in ways other than direct confrontation, she would slowly shift into the mindset of an airbender. In short, learning to take breaths and calmly consider the situation, learning best how to proceed.

So in order to eventually fight Amon, she'd have to learn how to quell her fear and avoid his attacks. During the fight (which would be done in view of his followers so he'd be holding back on his own bending), she'd repeatedly avoid his attempts to subdue her and take her bending, and suddenly everything would click and she'd hit him with a blast of air when he least expects it (because he doesn't think she can airbend). Her whole message would have to be one of "let's live in peace" to his followers, and thus she'd have to learn to *not* use force against Amon, lest she be portrayed as the monster Amon wants her and all benders to look like. It's a very air nomad concept, living in tranquility with everything around you, and thus would tie in neatly with her airbending.

Now with all elements at her command, Amon realizes he's losing and is eventually forced to bloodbend, but announces it as "the spirits have given me this power, in order to subdue all benders; and now I will cleanse the avatar and all her bending friends." He makes a move to remove the bending from hostages, people like Mako and Bolin, and she finally hits avatar mode and goes berserk on him, forcing Mako and Bolin to try and calm her down. And it's going into the avatar mode, that finally allows her to begin linking with her past lives.

And then I would have rolled Season 2 as the "Book of Spirits" because it turns out that Amon really did have the backing of a spirit, or at least a deal with one, and that's why he could blood bend without a full moon, and thus there is a bigger problem. And thus Korra has to learn to deal with the spiritual realm in season 2, in order to quell that issue which could disrupt the entire world.
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Old 2012-06-24, 10:08   Link #942
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Hmm, if I were to offer you guys a theory, would you listen?

I think we may be missing the hidden antagonist in this series. The monster that almost equaled the playing field with benders.

That antagonist would be technology.

Amon could have been dangerous with or without blood bending simply because of the technology he used to fight traditional bending powers. I think this presents our true enemy to benders in season 2, because non-benders who hate benders aren't going away simply because Amon was proven a fake.

If technology really evolves for the next season, then maybe a fully-realized avatar is needed for the battle. Korra has already proven that there is one potential enemy that she could never fight in a world-wide revolution. If non-benders everywhere revolted against her and other benders, then what can she possibly do to restore balance when the world no longer wants any of the elements? Would they even need bending anymore with the advancements of technology?

I will, however, agree with the romance side of the story being rushed. Still, it could end up being a big weakness for Korra later on.
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Old 2012-06-24, 11:30   Link #943
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For the most part i liked the finale. My only complaint is the lame deus ex machina they used for korra to get her bending back that and the romance.
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Old 2012-06-24, 11:58   Link #944
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golos View Post
I fail to see how that brat was better than Lin Bei Fong.
Two reasons:



and



Yeah. What she said.

The second video is also a testament to how much BETTER bending was in the TLA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Also I definitely hope Asami comes back in the next season, I really like her. Personally I wouldn't mind if both Korra & Asami ditched Mako.
This would be both awesome, and hilarious. Zuko was definitely my least favourite of the old Team Avatar, but I still liked him all the same (definitely more after he became a member). Mako on the other hand, honestly, I couldn't care less. Romance aside, he's not much of a character at all (for various reasons already covered throughout the thread).
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Old 2012-06-24, 12:15   Link #945
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Originally Posted by Kaijo
Do you see what you're doing? Rather than quote from the show itself, you have formed reasons in your mind on what you *think* happened, and trying to treat that as fact. We don't know. It goes back to lazy writing, and that if you want to establish something, you have to, you know, establish it.
Your doing the same thing; only difference is you are making up reasons for why it DOES NOT work and treating as fact. And that's part of how reasoning works, we take the facts from the series and fill in the gaps with rudimentary logic.

Why was bloodbending outlawed? Because Katara despised blood bending and thought it was horrible. Why is bloodbending not commonly known? because it was outlawed. You are countering my reasoning that was not spelled out in the show, with your own reasoning that is not really spelled out in the show.

Quote:
The writers set up metal bending rather well, when they had a voiceover of the guru that metal is merely refined earth. And Toph's unique abilities allowed her to sense the particles of earth in there, and bend it. That's good writing. Which brings up another point of bad writing when they introduced platinum in Korra, which they supposedly couldn't bend. Why not? Platinum is metal, too!
As Sato pointed, the purity of the metal is a factor... if you go back to how Toph figured out metal bending, you will find that she used her advanced senses to "see" the impurities in the metal, those little bits of normal earth that remained within the refined earth; she was not bending the metal itself, but bending the impurities that existed in the metal

Quote:
The problem they set up with blood bending, is that waterbenders just don't have that kind of power to bloodbend, except when strengthened under a full moon. Maybe Yakone was the strongest water bender there ever was, but they never established that.
Many discoveries throughout history were at one point considered impossible at an earlier point in history... this is ignorance on the part of those who came before that did not foresee the advancements of the future. this is a fact of history... this is what Sokka was explaining.

And bloodbending without the full moon is not as impossible as you think if you just ask yourself one simple question; WHY was bloodbending only possible during the full moon? The full moon amplifies water bending, thus making it stronger... knowing that, in theory, the only thing it takes to blood bend is to be a water bender of sufficient strength. Hama and Katara only thought it was impossible because they did not know of anyone strong enough... so the ONLY thing Yakone needs is for his family to be unusually strong waterbenders.

the information you call "facts" about the avatar world are not in fact "facts"; they are the perspectives of the characters, who's own knowledge of the subject is limited. We are limited to the point of view of the characters. Hell i might even say that this is an example of the Unreliable Narrator, a writing style that has been used in many famous works of fiction...

Quote:
Actually, all they would have needed was to have Amon say "It's okay, they only think they are getting away; I know exactly where they are headed." That's it. That's how I would have done it.
If Amon had said that it would have ruined the surprise and made their capture VERY predictable... so same thing; twist ruined.

Quote:
So... body movement isn't important, except when it is? I poke a little bit of fun, but stance is the same thing as body movement. Well, both are needed, because they are interrelated. And we are shown time and time again in the first series, how much movement is required to bend. Pay attention to the detail sometime, because they put a LOT of work into it. For instance, lightning is called up using the same motions, no matter who is tossing it around.
That does NOT refute what i said. Tell me, when Katara destroyed that Iceberg did she or did she not use any stances or forms? No she did not; she was just waving her arms wildly and yelling at sokka; she was not even TRYING to bend, and yet she was bending(and performing more powerful bending than she was able to at the time)... It was nothing more than anger and random body movement; no stances, and no form.

Stance and forms are required to accurately control bending, but not required to bend itself; ANY body movement, even a rash punch can do that. Lightning is an example of this, because lightning is a very specific kind of firebending; turning flame into lightning requires precise control, and form is needed for that degree of control. But a random crude fireball? not so much; and simple punch can accomplish that
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Old 2012-06-24, 12:17   Link #946
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Oh Zuko was my favorite character in the original series. I absolutely loved his development and growth.

For me the comparison between Zuko & Mako is these are two characters that are flawed and make mistakes but in the original series the narrative actually acknowledged that Zuko was making mistakes. When he finally made the right decisions it was all the more powerful.

With Mako I can't see his flaws being acknowledged in the story at all. He doesn't seem to have developed or learned anything.
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Old 2012-06-24, 13:07   Link #947
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
His air force got taken out too quickly, they should have been expecting attack.
Yes, that's why they had an electric fence and mech's around to guard the airbase
Quote:
I know that would happen but it is stupid. So what if Amon was a bender? He was fully on non benders side. Seeing bender fighting against benders should strengthen their believes instead. Amon should have retreated for time being. He was good with words so he could get power back eventually.
The very BASIS for amon's revolution is non-bender hatred for benders; if those non-benders believed that there was good benders out there, they would not tolerate removing bending from innocent poeple... the non-benders saw the problems in society and came to believe what amon believed, that ALL benders are corrupt, and as a bender, Amon is one of THEM... this is nature of racism; it lacks rationality. Racist tend to not accept the help from those they hate. And he's a bloodbender of all things, the most universally despised type of bender. Hell the very fact that he could remove the bending of other, yet still kept his own bending is a point of hypocrisy.

Furthermore, Amon has LIED to them; His story of being scarred was made up and he hid the fact that he was a bender from them; they have no reason to believe ANYTHING he says. They have no reason to believe that he has the spirits on his sid, they have no reason to believe that he actually even has their interests in his heart; for all they know, he could be pursuing this revolution just to seize power. They have lost all reason to trust him... Even if they could accept him being a bdner, being a massive LIAR would be another obstacle

Some might be willing to follow Amon despite all this, but they make up only a fraction of the equalists... many others would probably rather continue the movement without Amon. Hell this could be part of why Tarlok so fit to kill him; because he was FAR too dangerous and might try to start all over again.

Quote:
What I meant by losong is how easily he got pushed around here. Till now no one could even touch him and now he gets thrown around. He got electrocuted by weak Mako and thrown out of the window by Korra who doesn't even know how to use air properly.
I know there was surprise factor and all but with his skills it shouldn't have ended like this.
The surprise factor can make ALL the difference. I mean simply ask, how was Amon to counter to counter korra's air attacks? non-benders rely on being able to EVADE bending attacks, but you can't really see a gust of wind; and that makes them hard to evade... in the first series alot of aang's oppenets countered aang's airbending with their own bending; blocking the attacks instead of just trying to dodge it. And Korra was relentless, after she hit amon she kept hitting him never giving him a moment to regain his composure so that he could even think of how to avoid her attacks. He finally got her with his bloodbending, but with sheer force of will korra resisted it enough to launch one more attack

Also Mako is not weak; he's been established to be a very talented fire bender... Mako got the best of amon because he had a moment of arrogrance and dropped his guard believing he was in totally control.



Quote:
He actually trained and fire took him 3 seasons. While Korra spent 2 episodes training and then totally forgot about it before pulling air out of her ass.
Aang kept working on his skills while Korra abandoned them.
No aang figured out how to fire bend in the first season in the very first episode where he got his first fire bending teacher... Season 3 is when he MASTERED fire bending

There is a BIG difference between learning to bend and actually MASTERING bending. Korra did not master airbending while fighting amon; she simply figure out how to do it. The only thing she could pull off is crude bursts of wind... she wasn't using more advanced moves such as Air scooters, creating torando's or anything like that

Quote:
Aang spent 3 seasons until he got to the point of learning energy bending. Previous Avatars did not out loud tell him how to do everything in 1 episode right at the start. They guided him to the right places before he learned stuff while here everything was done for Korra.
First, Korra spent about 15 years of her life trying to master 3 elements... that's A LOT longer than Aang who mastered earth, fire, and water in just ONE year.

Second, it did not take Aang three seasons to learn energy bending, it took him ONE NIGHT. The knowledge of energy bending was GIVEN to him by a giant sea Lion Turtle... and Aang did the same thing for Korra, giving her the knowledge of energy bending the SAME WAY the sea lion turtle gave it to him.

Quote:
That's how it went with Aang, he discovered thing while traveling. Korra got everything handed on a silver plate.
Korra got it though suffering and fighting against Amon's revolution
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Old 2012-06-24, 13:23   Link #948
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I agree with Slayerx on all those points.
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Old 2012-06-24, 14:01   Link #949
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The more I think about the finale of this series, the more I hate it. I didn't like the fact that Amon was a faker, nor did I like the romance or Korra getting her bending back to begin with, but looking at the past few episodes made me go, this is what all that build-up was for? I mean, why? Why did this season try to tie up its loose ends so hastily, especially since there's another season coming out soon? The only way this ending isn't going in my worst anime moments list of 2012 (and yes, this series counts) is if I see ten equivalents of Deadman Wonderland this year.
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Old 2012-06-24, 14:23   Link #950
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Originally Posted by Flawnalyst View Post
Why did this season try to tie up its loose ends so hastily, especially since there's another season coming out soon?
You missed my previous post that explained this. Originally Korra was only approved for these 12 episodes as a mini-series.

It was only after Bryke finished with this series that Nick approved another season. Hence this season was written as though there wouldn't be more.

That doesn't mean it excuses the writing of the finale (it doesn't) but it does explain why they tried to tie everything up right?

What I think the finale really failed to do was show how Korra deserved to get her bending back & win. I think the best storyline for me would be that Korra found a way to help non-benders that differed from Amon's method.

However even if they had humbled Korra more at the end and made her realize bending is not important to who she or anyone is, then I would have been more accepting of the way things ended up. Perhaps the series tried to show this but I just think it failed in getting this message across.

Reflecting more on the episode, Amon & Tarrlok's back story was the best part for me. However, I still had issues with that too. At the very least I wish they explained better why Amon decided to go on this crusade against benders.
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Old 2012-06-24, 14:27   Link #951
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slayerx View Post
Your doing the same thing; only difference is you are making up reasons for why it DOES NOT work and treating as fact. And that's part of how reasoning works, we take the facts from the series and fill in the gaps with rudimentary logic.
No, I'm sorry, but don't attempt to twist things. I work off the facts of the series, as they have been presented. You attempt to fill in the gaps with your own opinions. Throw in whatever logic you feel like, but it doesn't change the fact that you are using your own opinions to fill in the gaps. And that's fine, if you want to use your opinion to fill in those gaps; whatever works for you.

You're entitled to your own opinions. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts.

And if a series leaves so many gaps that it forces the audience going "what the hell...?" many, many times, then it is a storytelling problem, plain and simple. It means the show or series or book did not do a good enough job explaining itself.

As the Nostalgia Critic likes to say, "Explain, movie, EXPLAIN!"

Going round and round on this won't accomplish much besides annoy the other posters, so I'll leave with just this one question:

Would you be totally fine if, in the next season, it were revealed that there are a few other people out there who can bend all the elements, just like the avatar, and the show never really explained how or why that is?
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Old 2012-06-24, 15:54   Link #952
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Would you be totally fine if, in the next season, it were revealed that there are a few other people out there who can bend all the elements, just like the avatar, and the show never really explained how or why that is?
Apples and oranges. As i Explained, bloodbending was originally thought to rely on the full moon; why did katara and hama need the full moon? Well the full moon greatly amplifies bending, so it stands to reason that the reason they could only blood bend during the full moon is because blood bending requires a great deal of water power, that of which is not commonly found in common water benders. As such, logic stands to reason that the requirement for bloodbending is not the full moon but just being able to use THAT level of power; so in short, a water bender that's more powerful than the common water bender may be able to do what normally can only be done during the full moon because they are just THAT power. You act like it came out of nowhere but this is all VERY simple logic BASED UPON THE FACTS given to us in the series.

Bloodbending can only be used with full moon
Full moon = powerful waterbending
Some benders are much stronger than others, and are naturally much more gifted
ergo
Bloodbending can only be used with powerful waterbending
So you don't need the full moon if you happen to have powerful waterbending, and its not unthinkable that a waterbender would have a higher level of power than most others
Simple logic


This is done often it writing... a writer does not always need to spell out every detail when he tells us 1+2+3=6; he can instead believe that if he gives his readers 1+N+3=6, that they are smart enough to know that N must equal 2... hell its no different when he sets something up by giving us 1+2+3=N; he does not underestimate the intelligence of his readers and knows that if gives them that info, they will realize the N will equal 6 before he tells them it does; which is why when foreshadowing the leave out certain detail to keep the audience from piecing together before the reveal so that they will be surprised. Not everything needs to be spelled out crystal clear; in fact doing so can even seem like talking done to the audience since explaining every tiny detail shows that you don't think they are smart enough to put the a simple puzzle together. This is common in writing


However, i would say that another bender able to bend the 4 elements would make for an interesting story for a future avatar... the constant intermingling of benders caused by the united republic could bring about benders that wind up inheriting multiple forms of bending; with enough controlled breeding this could lead to someone being able to control all four elements... Alternatively, the future might lead to an advancement in science where scientists are able to study the chi paths of benders to discover the true sources of bending and thus could figure out through surgery or genetic engineering to unlock multiple bending in people... This in turn would make for an interesting story for the avatar as this could lead to a world that see's him as obsolete and he would have to learn what it truly means to be the avatar
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Old 2012-06-24, 15:55   Link #953
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You missed my previous post that explained this. Originally Korra was only approved for these 12 episodes as a mini-series.

It was only after Bryke finished with this series that Nick approved another season. Hence this season was written as though there wouldn't be more.
2nd season was announced ages ago. They had enough time to change the script for the last 2 episodes.

And no matter what everyone says ending sucked bad.

Benders didn't get enough time to look back on their actions and reflect on them. If Tahno will become all goody goody next season, I'll puke.

Same for Korra, she didn't learn anything except how to break couples apart and fall for boring guys.
With her losing powers, there could've been so much done! I was really getting annoyed when she became all miserable forgetting that others can't generate a thing while she still has air bending.
Though I told myself that it is a normal first reaction.
That whole conflict could play such a huge role and all this drama till now would serve a purpose but it didn't.

We had huge drama with Lin losing powers and next week she is all happy and bending again. None of the characters with lost powers ever got explored and that's sucks and ruins whole purpose of this seasons. All we had till now was a waste.


Amon wise we can see air bending. I have never heard anyone saying that they can't see air attacks.
Amon is great at avoiding and it was confirmed that he did it through blood bending. I don't see a single reason of why he couldn't stop her through blood bending or at least slow her down for a moment after phew attacks.


Conclusion: Series were beyond rushed and I'm not happy with that. Also whole purpose of the series was killed in just few seconds.
Creating a disaster is easy but making things better is 10 times harder. Here it was other way around.
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Old 2012-06-24, 16:06   Link #954
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2nd season was announced ages ago. They had enough time to change the script for the last 2 episodes.
I don't think you really understand how long it takes to make an American animated series.

The series was finished and ready to go by the time they announced the 2nd season, they didn't have time to change anything.

And for the record I am not trying to defend the writing of the series, just explaining why things were wrapped up. This has nothing to do with opinion but factual information.

However telling people "no matter what you say" the ending sucks is an opinion. I didn't like the ending either but I wouldn't presume to say my opinion is more correct than someone else's.
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Old 2012-06-24, 16:12   Link #955
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Unanswered questions are unanswered questions no matter how much opinion you inject into the matter. Same thing for asspulls.
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Old 2012-06-24, 16:17   Link #956
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Honestly, besides the pulpy ending and overall bad pacing, my biggest complaint in the last episode was Iroh the Seconds ability to fly a plane. Where did that come from? You can't just sit in a plane and know how to fly.
He's in the military, so they're using that as a reason why he can use any and all military equipment.
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Old 2012-06-24, 16:17   Link #957
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I disagree that it was anything close to a disaster, it had its weak moments, but I feel you are overreacting to many molehill level issues in the overall scheme of things.

Korra being able to Airbend and pushing Amon back with it isn't unbelievable in any way. She had been training all season with Tenzin (the entire reason she is in republic city in the first place), and she had gotten the form down ages ago, she just couldn't actually release the Airbending itself.

Amon has also never faced an Airbender in combat before, except for his brief exchange with Tenzin, who was the first person to actually land a hit against Amon fyi.

As for Airbending being visible, I actually high doubt it is any more visible then a strong gust of wind, as in, not very. This would make it exceedingly difficult to dodge without the use of bending.

As for Bloodbending not being exclusive to Katara and Hama, I agree with Sokka's reasoning in the flashback. We have seen some amazing and unique benders in the first series, so it is far from implausible that a Waterbender of unusual talent could develop "true" blood bending without the relaying on the moon for a power boost.


While I can understand some level of disappointment (I was practically cringing at all the Korra x Mako shipping), I don't think the finale, or the series itself, was done particularly badly. In many ways I see it as superior to Avatar Book 1: Water.
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Old 2012-06-24, 16:34   Link #958
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All and all, it was a sequel done right with some quirks compared to many other series with sequels that utterly failed. Things could have been far worse. So be glad that we're getting a Book 2 and maybe a Book 3.
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Old 2012-06-24, 18:53   Link #959
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^True, could be worse.
As long as they learn from their mistake, I'm welcoming season 2.

All I want is not a rushed story and less of sloppy romance.
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Old 2012-06-24, 18:56   Link #960
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You missed my previous post that explained this. Originally Korra was only approved for these 12 episodes as a mini-series.
I actually knew that beforehand, but that just makes the new season worse in my eyes. Digimon changed its plans pretty fast when more episodes were announced. Why couldn't Korra?
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