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Old 2012-12-10, 02:31   Link #2201
Vladrave
The Dark Slayer
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
I agree with monir. For some reason, i didn't like his depiction in 1999 even though i like his design more in that adaptation.
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Old 2012-12-10, 03:07   Link #2202
vansonbee
❤Ichigo 100%❤
 
 
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Still down about Paku dying, to bad we didn't get to know her better. Seem like she has a relationship with the leader (or 1 sided).

She was pretty cute, when she does the cat thing. I hope the author will explore into the Spider background a bit more.
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Old 2012-12-10, 04:34   Link #2203
Haak
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Well their situation makes sense.

They all grew up in same area which is considered non existent so they are treated like trash.

It makes sense for them to care for each other but hate everyone else.

They grew in one place what makes them a family, everyone else are strangers and outsiders. And since outsiders don't respect them, why should they?

If anything, H x H has handled their human side the best out of most series I know when it comes to villains.
If you're going to start off characterising a group of people by explaining that they massacred an entire innocent village and continue to give them characteristics like how they casually talk about killing children and annoying loud people, then suddenly making them tragic and sympathetic is always going to be a tricky affair and unfortunately I just don't think loyalty among the pack is good enough. It wasn't for Gon during his previous outburst against Nobunaga, so I figured the story was making it clear that wasn't enough, and I don't see what's changed to be honest. And I don't have a problem with the story emphasising that Kurapika shouldn't continue his path of revenge btw, but the pain that the Phantom Troupe caused him was genuine so there are victims out there because of the Troupe's deeds.
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Old 2012-12-10, 06:03   Link #2204
Sheba
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Kurapika's character have clearly benefited from this adaptation. I remember that after a certain period of time, I just couldn't stand Kurapika's character anymore. He always sounded so whiny with his tragic-hero demeanor. While I could understand why it was the case, I just couldn't muster any sympathy toward him. Kurapika was the Sasuke of HxH. For me, this adaptation balanced out Kurapika's character in a sensible way.
Miyuki Sawashiro's performance also helped. I thoroughly enjoyed hearing her Kurapika.
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Old 2012-12-10, 11:44   Link #2205
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
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The HxH world is far from being black and white. The spiders have no considerations for their victims at all, this is true. And their values ARE twisted. But at least they have values.

I feel that the story is making it clear that it's really up to the viewer whether to have sympathy for them or not. It's not forcing sympathy in any way.
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Old 2012-12-10, 12:37   Link #2206
woot
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Great episode, it didn't feel rushed at all



Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
Ugh. I take back what I said...

The episode was okayish but still...
Nothing's really changed, PT are still douchebag killers who still care for their friends despite killing many others

Gon felt sorry for Paku because they're both in the same position, trying to save a friend and the least he could do is empathize. However Gon himself is hypocritical too, according to the story, when he's being proud he becomes selfish and doesn't care about people and only focuses on his goal (stealing Hisoka's card scene)
He's a f'd up kid :P
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Old 2012-12-10, 13:11   Link #2207
vansonbee
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woot View Post
Great episode, it didn't feel rushed at all




Nothing's really changed, PT are still douchebag killers who still care for their friends despite killing many others

Gon felt sorry for Paku because they're both in the same position, trying to save a friend and the least he could do is empathize. However Gon himself is hypocritical too, according to the story, when he's being proud he becomes selfish and doesn't care about people and only focuses on his goal (stealing Hisoka's card scene)
He's a f'd up kid :P
Gon is a straight forward guy, who rarely thinks about the consequences of his action, but anything involving a human life, I doubt he will be that hard headed.
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Old 2012-12-10, 13:34   Link #2208
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vansonbee View Post
Gon is a straight forward guy, who rarely thinks about the consequences of his action, but anything involving a human life, I doubt he will be that hard headed.
In the Hunter Exam he specifically let Hisoka kill a random person to get his tag. He never even considered stopping Hisoka from going for the kill, and in fact was hoping he wouldn't (because he'd lose his chance). Gon really doesn't care in the slightest if people are mass-murdering psychopaths, heck, his best friend Killua is and it's not like he ever asked Killua to stop killing people. The only reason he yelled at Nobunaga is because of the hypocrisy.

As far as I can tell, this is Gon's attitude: Be a serial killer, torturer, whatever, that's your personal choice. But playing favorites isn't fair.
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Old 2012-12-10, 17:48   Link #2209
Dengar
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To be fair, Hisoka, while arguably even worse than the spiders, fits more into Gon's type of logic because he doesn't cry for people at all.

I'd also like to point out that Gon acknowledges the fact that the people in the Hunter exam were knowingly putting their lives on the line. The Spiders are implied to have killed people who didn't. Not sure about Hisoka. It's possible, it's very difficult to get a clear read on how Hisoka thinks.
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Old 2012-12-10, 21:25   Link #2210
kitten320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haak View Post
If you're going to start off characterising a group of people by explaining that they massacred an entire innocent village and continue to give them characteristics like how they casually talk about killing children and annoying loud people, then suddenly making them tragic and sympathetic is always going to be a tricky affair and unfortunately I just don't think loyalty among the pack is good enough. It wasn't for Gon during his previous outburst against Nobunaga, so I figured the story was making it clear that wasn't enough, and I don't see what's changed to be honest. And I don't have a problem with the story emphasising that Kurapika shouldn't continue his path of revenge btw, but the pain that the Phantom Troupe caused him was genuine so there are victims out there because of the Troupe's deeds.
Am not saying that you have to sympathies with them.
I'm just pointing out that they do have some values.

Think about yourself. If your family member and 5 strangers got in trouble, whom would you help? High chances are that you would still save your dear family member and leave strangers die.

Phantoms are killers but in a sense their and this situation are similar. They care about their "family" but don't give a damn about others.
Though their "family bond" is not that deep either if you consider the fact that they were about to slaughter each other.

They are not good but they are not machines either and do have things/people they care about.

Does not excuse them from killing though.
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Old 2012-12-10, 21:42   Link #2211
garbage
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^ I think it would be wrong to generalize the Genei Ryoudan as this or that by the very fact that they are more than once shown ready to fight ( and kill each other ) due to differences in opinion. Most notably with regards to the saving the boss. True they do have values but it seems it's basically different for each and every member.

One thing I notice is though is that they take Killing people and stealing seriously, it's business for them. is it because they're the front liners and earners for their home/village/country? it was depicted as a forgotten , garbage disposable, discarded poor "country" where possibly death is cheap. we wouldn't know yet, but somehow feels like it. So this of course has to come in on how the members formed their values especially with regards to killing AND valuing their "family".
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Old 2012-12-11, 02:58   Link #2212
Dengar
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Meteor City isn't even a proper country. It's just a huge-ass garbage dump which rejects use as a place to live.
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Old 2012-12-11, 03:42   Link #2213
monir
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
Miyuki Sawashiro's performance also helped. I thoroughly enjoyed hearing her Kurapika.
She is amazing! That's why I like studios like Madhouse who can use their resource and influence to get talented people like Miyuki Sawashiro to work with them. HxH fans are lucky!
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Old 2012-12-11, 04:14   Link #2214
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
She is amazing! That's why I like studios like Madhouse who can use their resource and influence to get talented people like Miyuki Sawashiro to work with them. HxH fans are lucky!
I think pretty much anyone can get Sawashiro to work for them. She's starred in like a dozen different anime this year. I've even seen her work in doujin games. ...she's probably a workaholic.
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Old 2012-12-11, 06:04   Link #2215
Guardian Enzo
Seishu's Ace
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Yeah, Sawashiro-san may be many things, but exclusive she's not.
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Old 2012-12-11, 06:34   Link #2216
Sheba
Have a Yasen Problem
 
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
I think pretty much anyone can get Sawashiro to work for them. She's starred in like a dozen different anime this year. I've even seen her work in doujin games. ...she's probably a workaholic.
Her Sakuya Izayoi is awesome.
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Old 2012-12-11, 12:54   Link #2217
AnimeFan188
Senior Member
 
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So, the spiders lost Paku & Uvo, instead of half their number. I guess that means
those fortunes aren't absolute.

The boss is out of action until he, or his subordinates, can find someone who can
remove Nen.

Then, it'll be time for Kurapika vs. the spiders; Round 2.

Maybe by that time Gon and Killua will be able to do more than just end up being
hostages.
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Old 2012-12-11, 13:16   Link #2218
Dengar
Kamen Rider Muppeteer
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
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Neon's fortunes have been stated to be warnings back when they were explained. Not doing X, where X is the activity described in the poem, will prevent Y from happening, where Y is the event that follows after X.

The reason the fortune went off track is because they switched the group makeups around and approached things differently (such as not traveling in groups of less than 3).
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Old 2012-12-11, 14:57   Link #2219
Haak
F**k my life...
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: UK
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Am not saying that you have to sympathies with them.
I'm just pointing out that they do have some values.

Think about yourself. If your family member and 5 strangers got in trouble, whom would you help? High chances are that you would still save your dear family member and leave strangers die.

Phantoms are killers but in a sense their and this situation are similar. They care about their "family" but don't give a damn about others.
Though their "family bond" is not that deep either if you consider the fact that they were about to slaughter each other.

They are not good but they are not machines either and do have things/people they care about.

Does not excuse them from killing though.
Maybe it's just me but I never got the feeling that they were leaving it up to interpretation. And maybe it's just me but I rarely ever feel that pointing out that horrible villains occasionally have some virtues is anything other than a pointless exercise. Especially when in this case, the virtue that you should be really hoping for is a "Hey maybe we wouldn't be in the mess we weren't such assholes?" I mean there are plenty of people like them in real life. Horrible people who are probably good to their own families (Ironically I'm not actually thinking of criminals, but politicians and dictators). I don't deny their realism and they are pretty grounded villains but ultimately I still feel like the Troupe got off lightly and were given more respect by the storyline than they really deserve.
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Old 2012-12-11, 15:27   Link #2220
Clarste
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Hunter x Hunter isn't really a morality tale in the first place. Most of the villains gets away (and most of the cast is villainous). Why? Because they're strong. Might makes right, or at least no one's around to catch them. People like Hisoka who kill people for no reason but the fun of it, arguably worse than the Spiders who at least kill for profit, get off with nary a slap on the wrist but you never saw people complaining about that. Killua himself is an unrepentant killer too. Remember those guys on the airship? He's never regretted being a killer, he just got bored of that life and wanted the opportunity to choose his own path.

If you're looking for villains getting punished because they're evil rather than bands of differently amoral characters coexisting, then this isn't the series for you.
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