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Old 2013-06-28, 09:19   Link #3221
kakakka
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
I am more disturbed by people saying Morel had no right to say anything about Killua. In that scene, it's obvious that Killua was broken down and had given up. Morel saw this, and as a fellow professional just told Killua that unless he could man up he can't stay a hunter. Which he is totally correct about.

Killua doesn't want to be taken as a kid, but as a professional, after all.
Except it's not about being professional that Killua was thinking about that time. He was more worried about the possible consequence of his decision.
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Old 2013-06-28, 14:31   Link #3222
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FYI: A number of recent posts were deleted because they contained or were in reply to manga hints. All hints about future content are completely forbidden by the Spoiler Policy and may not be posted in this thread under any circumstance, whether behind spoiler tags or not. All manga-related discussions must go to the manga thread.
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Old 2013-06-28, 15:42   Link #3223
CJ_Walker
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Originally Posted by amaterasu4 View Post
Really? I think Hunter X Hunter is far from living up to YuYu Hakusho's sucess. I mean the main cast is already based on YuYu's cast (Kurapica and Kurama, Hiei and Killua, Leorio and Kuwabara) although Gon feels more like Goku's lost brother. Yusuke felt more appealing though. YuYu also gave good conclusions to its arcs while the Genei Ryodan arc was very anticlimatic. Hunter X Hunter even demotes to extra more characters than YuYu too.
Hmmm... you drive a hard sell there. Yea Kurama is probably a way better kurapica - he's one of my fave anime characters of all time. Hell, even a certain orange nine tailed fox was named after him*cough* I think Killua is a lot better than Hiei though, mostly through his interactions with his family, and the fact that he isn't Vegeta 2.0.

I'd say that Hunter x Hunter is still better though, mostly due to the way he writes pretty much all his characters, pretty much fliping any shounen convention that he pretty much created in YYH (and has been endlessly copied ever since across the industry) and flips them on this head.

heh, I can even see the parallel between Bisuke and the old lady Yusuke trained under (dont remember her name).

I thought the Spider arc conclusion was amazing. Its another shounen subversion. . .the whole "must-have-epic-fight" ending. It had a lot of impact (especially pakunoda's last scene) and even reconciliation between the God/killua and the spiders.

I don't think I've seen that combination. . .ever. . .(or at least having it work and having it have a strong impact)

I feel that he was a lot more deliberate in his story telling in HxH than he was in YYH (especially towards the end of YYH when he just wanted to end it)

But yes, if you want to point out that YYH is pretty much what the whole shounen industry has been ripping off of over and over and over again(and failing at it) then yeah, I'd say you're right.

But I 100% believe that he improved his writing in HxH over YYH.
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Old 2013-06-28, 18:18   Link #3224
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Also, he was there, Morel wasn't.
Kite died though. Which normally would imply that he has bad judgment. It is yet to be seen if Morel will die in an encounter with the ants.
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Old 2013-06-28, 19:46   Link #3225
frubam
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moeterum View Post
Kite isn't really dead. He'll be back.

It's not a spoiler, I haven't read the manga, but I'm sure that he will.
This isn't DBZ, Naruto or Bleach. He's as good as gon(har har, get it X0P). And even though Nen can do impossible things, unless Gon 'conveniently' comes across a reviving Nen user, Kite's gone for good, especially more so, since his head has been torn off of his body. If this was a typical shounen, I'd agree with you, but in HxH? Highly doubt it =02.
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Old 2013-06-28, 21:51   Link #3226
Funkatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Moeterum View Post
Kite isn't really dead. He'll be back.

It's not a spoiler, I haven't read the manga, but I'm sure that he will.
Ahh, naive shonen fan, so full of hope. Watch as Togashi spits on your hope and dashes it under his heel... and then forget about it on hiatus again

Last edited by Funkatron; 2013-06-29 at 12:07.
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Old 2013-06-29, 00:41   Link #3227
leokiko
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Togashi be trolling
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Old 2013-06-29, 02:52   Link #3228
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Kite died though. Which normally would imply that he has bad judgment. It is yet to be seen if Morel will die in an encounter with the ants.
He was dead the moment Pitou spotted him. The bad judgment was in pursuing the ants, but what else could he do?

Well, I suppose letting the rabbit go was a mistake, and by extension taking the kids with him was, but how supernaturally prescient does one have to be before you give up on saying they have bad judgment?
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Old 2013-06-29, 03:05   Link #3229
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
He was dead the moment Pitou spotted him. The bad judgment was in pursuing the ants, but what else could he do?

Well, I suppose letting the rabbit go was a mistake, and by extension taking the kids with him was, but how supernaturally prescient does one have to be before you give up on saying they have bad judgment?
His mistake was taking the kids along. He lost his arm while trying to protect them. You'll note that Netero and the other two are not taking the kids without first giving them a test. The judgment they're making is that these sorts of amateurs will only get in their way if the situation gets out of control.
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Old 2013-06-29, 03:10   Link #3230
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
His mistake was taking the kids along. He lost his arm while trying to protect them.
Wouldn't have mattered.

Quote:
You'll note that Netero and the other two are not taking the kids without first giving them a test. The judgment they're making is that these sorts of amateurs will only get in their way if the situation gets out of control.
Netero and the others also have a much better view of what they're up against. "Something bad enough to get several pro-Hunters". Kite may be known to them. Knowing he was defeated is a big information.

All Kite had, going in, was "giant ants". Pitou was the first that was any kind of threat to him.
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Old 2013-06-29, 03:16   Link #3231
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Wouldn't have mattered.



Netero and the others also have a much better view of what they're up against. "Something bad enough to get several pro-Hunters". Kite may be known to them. Knowing he was defeated is a big information.

All Kite had, going in, was "giant ants". Pitou was the first that was any kind of threat to him.
Kite knew there was "something bad enough to get several pro-Hunters." Because he called them himself. He had plenty of opportunities to decide that the situation had become too dangerous and send the kids back, or wait for back-up himself. But he chose to ignore his gut feelings and proceed ahead with only himself as a reliable fighter.
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Old 2013-06-29, 03:26   Link #3232
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Kite knew there was "something bad enough to get several pro-Hunters."
At best he knew of one pro-Hunter who got killed or captured.

Quote:
Because he called them himself. He had plenty of opportunities to decide that the situation had become too dangerous and send the kids back, or wait for back-up himself. But he chose to ignore his gut feelings and proceed ahead with only himself as a reliable fighter.
So ignoring a baseless gut feeling is bad judgment? And you're going Gon and Killua a disservice. They are weaker than he is, but they were doing fine, until Pitou, and their absence wouldn't have changed anything.

As for waiting... Time was and is of the essence. The more they wait, the more royal guards and kings they have to deal with.
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Old 2013-06-29, 03:37   Link #3233
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
At best he knew of one pro-Hunter who got killed or captured.



So ignoring a baseless gut feeling is bad judgment? And you're going Gon and Killua a disservice. They are weaker than he is, but they were doing fine, until Pitou, and their absence wouldn't have changed anything.

As for waiting... Time was and is of the essence. The more they wait, the more royal guards and kings they have to deal with.
You separated that post oddly. The first sentence was tied to the second. He knew there was a danger that required more Pro-Hunters because he's the one who sent his subordinates back to call for help. He knew exactly as much about the situation as Netero did when Netero was assembling the team, because all the information Netero had came directly from Kite. That's just a fact.

And he made a judgment call to ignore his gut feelings. And then he died. That's just a sequence of events. Obviously you're trying to say that he made a reasonable decision based on what he knew at the time, but all I'm saying is that he had a choice, and he made the one that resulted in his death. If we're comparing his judgment to Morel's, which we were, one of them made a judgment call that led directly to his death, and the other one didn't. Yet.
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Old 2013-06-29, 04:13   Link #3234
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
You separated that post oddly. The first sentence was tied to the second. He knew there was a danger that required more Pro-Hunters because he's the one who sent his subordinates back to call for help. He knew exactly as much about the situation as Netero did when Netero was assembling the team, because all the information Netero had came directly from Kite. That's just a fact.
That's because my "get" in "something bad enough to get several pro-Hunters" wasn't in the sense of "fetch" but in the sense of "kill". Yes, he knew enough to call in reinforcements. He didn't know he was going to get killed.

Quote:
And he made a judgment call to ignore his gut feelings. And then he died. That's just a sequence of events. Obviously you're trying to say that he made a reasonable decision based on what he knew at the time, but all I'm saying is that he had a choice, and he made the one that resulted in his death. If we're comparing his judgment to Morel's, which we were, one of them made a judgment call that led directly to his death, and the other one didn't. Yet.
Sometimes people do the right things and die. Sometimes they do the wrong things and live.

And the fact of the matter is that Morel based his judgment of "Killua's a coward" on less information than Kite had. And Netero's based his judgment of "only take the very strong and determined" based on more information than Kite had.

So any comparison is suspect right from the outset.
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Old 2013-06-29, 04:51   Link #3235
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Sometimes people do the right things and die. Sometimes they do the wrong things and live.
Depends how you're defining right and wrong, doesn't it? Assuming your goal is to live and not to sacrifice yourself to achieve something, dying when you could have not died is almost by definition the wrong choice. You're trying to argue that we shouldn't be too hard on him for things outside of his knowledge, but his job is to venture into the unknown and survive. He needed to develop good instincts and to trust them. And he had those instincts, but he didn't trust them, so he died. The closer he gets to prescient, the better he is at doing his job.
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Old 2013-06-29, 04:56   Link #3236
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Depends how you're defining right and wrong, doesn't it? Assuming your goal is to live and not to sacrifice yourself to achieve something, dying when you could have not died is almost by definition the wrong choice. You're trying to argue that we shouldn't be too hard on him for things outside of his knowledge, but his job is to venture into the unknown and survive. He needed to develop good instincts and to trust them. And he had those instincts, but he didn't trust them, so he died. The closer he gets to prescient, the better he is at doing his job.
I'm saying that surviving doesn't come down to just "judgment". The world isn't that fair.
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Old 2013-06-29, 04:59   Link #3237
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'm saying that surviving doesn't come down to just "judgment". The world isn't that fair.
If you are ever, at any point, making a choice that matters, then sure it does. You just need ridiculously, inhumanly awesome judgment. But Hunters are nothing if not ridiculously inhumanly awesome. That's the standard they should be held to. And Kite did indeed have enough experience the get the feeling that this was more dangerous than it looked. He actually did determine that! But he made the wrong choice based on that.

If he discovered he had cancer or something, then that would be different, but he had the opportunity to retreat at any point.
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Old 2013-06-29, 17:04   Link #3238
noktown
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
If you are ever, at any point, making a choice that matters, then sure it does. You just need ridiculously, inhumanly awesome judgment. But Hunters are nothing if not ridiculously inhumanly awesome. That's the standard they should be held to. And Kite did indeed have enough experience the get the feeling that this was more dangerous than it looked. He actually did determine that! But he made the wrong choice based on that.

If he discovered he had cancer or something, then that would be different, but he had the opportunity to retreat at any point.
Your whole argument is based on his "feeling",if it was so simple even in the Hunter x Hunter world,then any death could be avoided.

Just like in our world even in Hunter x Hunter world,the feelings are the same,being Hunters they sharpen their senses(human senses),but you can't sharpen your feelings.We all have bad feelings,that doesn't stop us from going out that day.

You can't gain experience in feelings either,there's no pattern in life,like there's in combat or a game.You can only gain experience if you start recognizing pattern,but life is different all the time,you can't predict what you have waiting for you around the corner,even if we're talking about Hunter x Hunter world.
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Old 2013-06-29, 17:22   Link #3239
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
If you are ever, at any point, making a choice that matters, then sure it does. You just need ridiculously, inhumanly awesome judgment. But Hunters are nothing if not ridiculously inhumanly awesome. That's the standard they should be held to. And Kite did indeed have enough experience the get the feeling that this was more dangerous than it looked. He actually did determine that! But he made the wrong choice based on that.

If he discovered he had cancer or something, then that would be different, but he had the opportunity to retreat at any point.
So what you're saying is, Killua and Gon are better hunters than Kite (or at least have better judgment), because they did survive their foray into ant country?

And Leorio is an even better Hunter, because when's the last time he was even in serious danger?
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Old 2013-06-29, 17:54   Link #3240
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
So what you're saying is, Killua and Gon are better hunters than Kite (or at least have better judgment), because they did survive their foray into ant country?

And Leorio is an even better Hunter, because when's the last time he was even in serious danger?
Yes. What's wrong with that? Leorio wants to be a doctor so he went to Medical School instead of risking his life for no reason. That seems like pretty awesome judgment if you ask me.

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Originally Posted by noktown View Post
Your whole argument is based on his "feeling",if it was so simple even in the Hunter x Hunter world,then any death could be avoided.

Just like in our world even in Hunter x Hunter world,the feelings are the same,being Hunters they sharpen their senses(human senses),but you can't sharpen your feelings.We all have bad feelings,that doesn't stop us from going out that day.

You can't gain experience in feelings either,there's no pattern in life,like there's in combat or a game.You can only gain experience if you start recognizing pattern,but life is different all the time,you can't predict what you have waiting for you around the corner,even if we're talking about Hunter x Hunter world.
He had the pieces of the puzzle if he really stopped to piece them together. The ants have human DNA, therefore they can learn nen. And he knows they're naturally stronger than humans, so one with nen would be awesome. He knows the Royal Guards are stronger than division commanders, etc etc. It's not like he was going in completely blind. The "feeling" he had was much more than having a bad day: he knew he was forgetting something important.

Why is everyone trying to make excuses for Kite? He's strong, sure, but strength isn't everything. And apparently if he had run back to the border he could have met up with the reinforcements within the day.

Edit: The lesson we learn from Kite's death was "don't get overconfident", not "it doesn't matter what you do cause you're going to die anyway". That'd be a silly lesson.
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