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Old 2013-09-23, 02:20   Link #3601
Clarste
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
And before we get into a debate on how Blinky isn't supposed to be able to suck up living things, she didn't actually suck in the spider guy himself, and the technique only sucked from already existing wounds.
Why in the world would anyone debate that? It's been said from the very beginning that it can't suck what she considers alive. It's based entirely on Shizuku's subconscious, ergo a subjective test. There's no room for debate in the first place.

Blood is totally alive and she's wrong though.
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Old 2013-09-23, 06:38   Link #3602
Kazu-kun
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
It's been said from the very beginning that it can't suck what she considers alive.

Blood is totally alive and she's wrong though.
Oh, thanks for explaining that. I didn't know it was just what she considers alive rather than what's really alive. That's why after watching the episode I thought this was a pretty stupid plot hole, since, just like you said, blood is alive.

Again, thanks for clarifying it.
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Old 2013-09-23, 07:29   Link #3603
Anh_Minh
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Blood is full of living cells, but if she sucked the water out of it she'd get pretty much the same result. (Not that it matters, since indeed her subjectivity's what counts.)
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Old 2013-09-23, 09:56   Link #3604
Dengar
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Both Fei-Tan and Flut guys seems to be quite a bit different than what you are saying.

Flute guy is Materialization with sound restrictions (like how Kurapika is restricted to Ryodans).
What is he conjuring then? What do you even mean by "sound restrictions"? He's just moving his body around and generating sound that way. That's why I said it's like enhancement (amplifying the sound) and manipulation (using the sound to affect his enemies).

Okay, he conjures the outfit, but that doesn't seem to be the most important part of his ability. If it says somewhere he's a conjurer, I'll believe it. Not everyone has abilities where their primary nature is the prevalent school.

I don't see how that is "Quite a bit different from what I said" though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Fei-Tan is usually considered to use Transformation who turns aura into pure pain/fire aspects (and some other stuff as he is hinted to have other abilities). Think on how Killua needs to recharge too, except Fei-Tan also made this into a Restriction.
Okay, so I got his primary nature wrong, big whoop. My description of his ability seems pretty accurate though. Again, not sure why it's "Quite a bit different".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkeus View Post
Oh, and he uses Materialization to give him a suit (right next to transformation) when in super-mode.
I -DID- mention this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
a complicated combination of Enhancement, Transmutation, Emission and even Conjuration.
See?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo View Post
I assumed Feitan was a Transmuter, based on Pain Packer.
I assumed he was an emitter, based on the same. But transmuter also works.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Why in the world would anyone debate that? It's been said from the very beginning that it can't suck what she considers alive. It's based entirely on Shizuku's subconscious, ergo a subjective test. There's no room for debate in the first place.

Blood is totally alive and she's wrong though.
Clearly not everyone knew that. I sure didn't. I just sort of assumed that her ability didn't consider blood as such (which, while living, isn't really a thing), which kind of comes down to the same thing but still.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Blood is full of living cells, but if she sucked the water out of it she'd get pretty much the same result. (Not that it matters, since indeed her subjectivity's what counts.)
This.
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Old 2013-09-23, 10:33   Link #3605
Arkeus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
What is he conjuring then? What do you even mean by "sound restrictions"? He's just moving his body around and generating sound that way. That's why I said it's like enhancement (amplifying the sound) and manipulation (using the sound to affect his enemies).

Okay, he conjures the outfit, but that doesn't seem to be the most important part of his ability. If it says somewhere he's a conjurer, I'll believe it. Not everyone has abilities where their primary nature is the prevalent school.
"Sound restriction" is "He needs to make music in order to use his ability. Each ability has a different music that activates it."

As for Conjuration, he conjures: Outfit, a Lance, and 'Jupiter'.

There is, as far as i can see, no manipulation whatsoever there.
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Old 2013-09-23, 10:51   Link #3606
Dengar
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Oh you mean as an activation. I guess that makes sense.

But it seemed to me that he also uses his sound to affect his opponent. That's where I got the idea that he was using manipulation.
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Old 2013-09-23, 10:58   Link #3607
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
Blood is full of living cells, but if she sucked the water out of it she'd get pretty much the same result. (Not that it matters, since indeed her subjectivity's what counts.)
Yeah but she said blood, not water. So if her power wasn't based on a subjective definition, that would have been an issue. And I doubt I'm the only one who didn't remember her power worked like that.
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Old 2013-09-23, 11:02   Link #3608
Gan_HOPE326
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Never given too much thought about the blood thing - either it's a subconscious thing (as argued here), or maybe the definition of "living thing" for Deme-chan relates to something that can't live on its own? Or really, it's actually just about plants, animals and human beings. When Deme-chan sucks in an object, does it leave out all the bacteria that lived on its surface ?
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Old 2013-09-23, 16:25   Link #3609
Anh_Minh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Yeah but she said blood, not water. So if her power wasn't based on a subjective definition, that would have been an issue. And I doubt I'm the only one who didn't remember her power worked like that.
I'm saying, as a tangent, that "blood is alive" is a questionable statement to start with. It's full of microscopic living stuff, but so is nearly everything. Like Gan_HOPE326 saiys, what about bacterias on (and in) the nonliving stuff she vacuums? Which in the past has included dead bodies. It wouldn't be a very useful power if she could only take sterile stuff.

But as I said, it's a tangent.
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Old 2013-09-23, 17:42   Link #3610
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
It's full of microscopic living stuff, but so is nearly everything.
If made up of that stuff, not full of it. There's a difference.

Anyway, let's move on.
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Old 2013-09-24, 01:01   Link #3611
orion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
I'm saying, as a tangent, that "blood is alive" is a questionable statement to start with. It's full of microscopic living stuff, but so is nearly everything. Like Gan_HOPE326 saiys, what about bacterias on (and in) the nonliving stuff she vacuums? Which in the past has included dead bodies. It wouldn't be a very useful power if she could only take sterile stuff.

But as I said, it's a tangent.
I agree. You have to define what is "alive".

http://faculty.fmcc.suny.edu/mcdarby...ining_Life.htm

Blood may be filled with cells but it as a whole is not "alive". It is a component of a living organism. If you use this as the definition, then it's fair game to be sucked.
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Old 2013-09-24, 01:42   Link #3612
Dengar
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Once the blood is outside a body, I think it's safe to no longer consider it even part of a living thing. Else it wouldn't be able to suck in meat or corpses.
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Old 2013-09-24, 07:57   Link #3613
Hamster
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I assumed Shizuku meant living creatures with the exception of microbes. Blood itself isn't a living creature.

Otherwise, dead people can be considered alive too.
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Old 2013-09-24, 22:33   Link #3614
MasterVampire
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Is this series any good?

I was thinking about watching it but it seems a bit...... "kiddy?"

I like DBZ and FullMetal Alchemist to put things into perspective.
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Old 2013-09-24, 22:50   Link #3615
Funkatron
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MasterVampire View Post
Is this series any good?

I was thinking about watching it but it seems a bit...... "kiddy?"

I like DBZ and FullMetal Alchemist to put things into perspective.
far, far from kiddy
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Old 2013-09-25, 00:01   Link #3616
MasterVampire
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far, far from kiddy
hmmmm yeah people keep saying that but I see the two main characters how they are kids and get a bit put off by it.
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Old 2013-09-25, 00:54   Link #3617
whitecloud
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With all this talk about nen power, if only there is nen martial art in real life isnt it? Based on my attitude i would be an enhancer maybe, im kinda naive...
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Old 2013-09-25, 01:34   Link #3618
Dengar
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Originally Posted by MasterVampire View Post
hmmmm yeah people keep saying that but I see the two main characters how they are kids and get a bit put off by it.
I am unsure how to convince you of the fact that it's WAY less kiddy than DBZ, and possibly less kiddy than FMA, if all you go by is the fact that two of the main characters are kids.

On that note, aren't the leads in FMA and Dragonball kids too?
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Old 2013-09-25, 02:04   Link #3619
Anh_Minh
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Older than Gon and Killua, though.
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Old 2013-09-25, 03:43   Link #3620
Guardian Enzo
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The degree of "kiddieness" in a series is not directly proportional to the age of the leads, IMO.

In any event, neither H x H or FMA are kiddie in any way. I see this given as the justification for not watching/reading H x H more than any other reason, and of course it's invariably given by people who've never watched or read it. It's irritating, but I've heard it so often that I'm dulled to it by now.
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