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Old 2014-03-04, 16:32   Link #4241
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Student no.0 View Post
Oh yeah, the scales could have more to do with Pouf's physiology than Nen. But still, hasn't it has been shown you can alter non-aura object anyway? Like Hisoka's Texture Surprise, Bisky's suppressed form, along with Zanzan's toxin and that transformation when she rips her tail off. I'd mention Youpi too, but his shape-shifting could be because of his mythical beast genes in him.
Hisoka's Texture Surprise is just an illusion created by a layer of his nen. It doesn't change the object itself in any way, and goes away the instant he stops maintaining it. Biscuit's ability is her magical masseuse which creates special lotions out of her aura. She's changing the property of her aura into rubbing lotions that have pseudo-magical effects, like relieving fatigue and making her look young and cute (this is explicitly how she describes her ability, before the reveal of her true form). I don't think this is much different from all the Conjurers who can do whatever with whatever they conjure (how is detecting liars a property of chains or conjuring, for example?).

There is no indication that Zanzan was a transmuter, or even that her mutation injections involved nen at all. Chimera Ants already have pretty weird biology, and who know what other weird animals they've been eating.
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Old 2014-03-04, 16:39   Link #4242
Student no.0
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Hisoka's Texture Surprise is just an illusion created by a layer of his nen. It doesn't change the object itself in any way. Biscuit's ability is her magical masseuse which creates special lotions out of her aura. She's changing the property of her aura into rubbing lotions that have pseudo-magical effects, like relieving fatigue and making her look young and cute (this is explicitly how she describes her ability, before the reveal of her true form). I don't think this is much different from all the Conjurers who can do whatever with whatever they conjure (how is detecting liars a property of chains or conjuring, for example?).

There is no indication that Zanzan was a transmuter, or even that her mutation injections involved nen at all. Chimera Ants already have pretty weird biology, and who know what other weird animals they've been eating.
In that case nvm about Hisoka. Missed those details on Bisky by a long shot. As for Zanzan, I just went with Hunterpedia(which really might not be that reliable), we never really got any indication that she could alter humans before she acquired Nen anyway.
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Old 2014-03-04, 16:42   Link #4243
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Student no.0 View Post
In that case nvm about Hisoka. Missed those details on Bisky by a long shot. As for Zanzan, I just went with Hunterpedia(which really might not be that reliable), we never really got any indication that she could alter humans before she acquired Nen anyway.
To be honest, I think Togashi pretty much started ignoring the categories around the Chimera Arc. It's only really important for training purposes, and developing abilities that suit you. Once we're dealing with only mature nen users and uber-powerful ants it kind of stops mattering. Trying to figure out categories is an interesting intellectual exercise, but honestly he'd probably just call most of them "Specialization" because they're too weird.

Heck, Pitou was explicitly called Specialization and she never even did anything that unusual (corpse manipulation and surgery).
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Old 2014-03-04, 17:09   Link #4244
Anh_Minh
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There's the possibility that the categories are a human construct. Human nen users all share it because humans train each other, or because humanity gives us something in common about the way we think, or both. Like counting in base 10. We almost all do it, but there's no real reason we couldn't count in base 9, or 12.

Ants, OTOH, can be pretty alien and taught themselves nen in a much less rigorous way. So if their abilities aren't easy to pigeonhole, it may be because they never really knew to try and develop them along the lines of the conventional system.
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Old 2014-03-04, 17:43   Link #4245
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
There's the possibility that the categories are a human construct. Human nen users all share it because humans train each other, or because humanity gives us something in common about the way we think, or both. Like counting in base 10. We almost all do it, but there's no real reason we couldn't count in base 9, or 12.

Ants, OTOH, can be pretty alien and taught themselves nen in a much less rigorous way. So if their abilities aren't easy to pigeonhole, it may be because they never really knew to try and develop them along the lines of the conventional system.
That would be a cool interpretation if we hadn't seen Pitou study archer guy's brain and learn everything about nen from that. Even if the nen categories are a human construct, the ants have borrowed that.
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Old 2014-03-04, 18:02   Link #4246
Anh_Minh
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
That would be a cool interpretation if we hadn't seen Pitou study archer guy's brain and learn everything about nen from that. Even if the nen categories are a human construct, the ants have borrowed that.
Some, yes, but they learnt unnaturally fast. They didn't spend lots of time under a teacher, slowly absorbing knowledge - Pitou just extracted it from an almost-corpse, and god knows how it went for the other ants. So, while they're aware of the categories, raw instinct, rather than intellect, may have played a larger role.
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Old 2014-03-05, 07:01   Link #4247
Gan_HOPE326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anh_Minh View Post
There's the possibility that the categories are a human construct. Human nen users all share it because humans train each other, or because humanity gives us something in common about the way we think, or both. Like counting in base 10. We almost all do it, but there's no real reason we couldn't count in base 9, or 12.

Ants, OTOH, can be pretty alien and taught themselves nen in a much less rigorous way. So if their abilities aren't easy to pigeonhole, it may be because they never really knew to try and develop them along the lines of the conventional system.
I'd say the suggestion is also that ants are kinda putting abilities together as they go. They're all extremely naturally strong, but their Nen is only dangerous because they have insane amounts of aura - other than that, they're all Kastros waiting to happen. Which might as well be the only weakness they have. Without that, there'd be no match at all. Like Youpi said in this episode: "I'm much stronger than all of them, so why am I taking a beating from everyone?". Answer: they know how to use their Nen in a way more efficient way. By comparison, the ants are self-taught amateurs - albeit scarily talented ones.
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Old 2014-03-05, 10:14   Link #4248
SHINOBI-03
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-EPISODE 119-
Spoiler for part 1:

-------------
Spoiler for part 2:
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Old 2014-03-05, 11:59   Link #4249
Student no.0
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Originally Posted by Gan_HOPE326 View Post
I'd say the suggestion is also that ants are kinda putting abilities together as they go. They're all extremely naturally strong, but their Nen is only dangerous because they have insane amounts of aura - other than that, they're all Kastros waiting to happen. Which might as well be the only weakness they have. Without that, there'd be no match at all. Like Youpi said in this episode: "I'm much stronger than all of them, so why am I taking a beating from everyone?". Answer: they know how to use their Nen in a way more efficient way. By comparison, the ants are self-taught amateurs - albeit scarily talented ones.
Idk what to say about potential Kastros (though I can't really see it happening), but to me it seems to have to do more with battle-compatibility than experience if we're talking about Youpi(and so far just him). Youpi may not have had as much experience in battle as Shoot, yet he'd have killed him easily under 20 seconds if it were just a pure one-on-one. Meloreon's Perfect Plan is what's giving them the main upper hand to hold him off and confuse him for the time being. Knuckle and Killua likely wouldn't have gotten their free shots at him if it weren't for the fact than God's Accomplice almost makes them nearly nonexistant to anyone. Potclean would've been nullified in a short time if Knuckle had been in Youpi's range one-on-one even if he did get to hit him once. Killua could do quite well in holding him off with Godspeed, but only for a limited time apparently, and since his Thunderbolts require charging for increased power, Youpi has enough time to evade (as pointed out last episode). Let's not forget that Chimera Ants can pick-up at an incredibly fast rate to make up for current lack of experience, and Youpi is far from slow or stupid. Without PP, there'd be higher risk of casualties and the Hunters might've have to change their tactics to evasive or defensive without a proper means of sneaking an offensive charge (PP+anyone).

That said, I'd be really interested in how a Killua vs. Cheetu fight could work. Sucks we'll never get to know what else he had in store anymore.
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Old 2014-03-05, 13:00   Link #4250
Dengar
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There's two main things that decide the potency of an ability.

1) Catering to a person's aura nature
2) Catering to a person, period

I'd argue that the second one is more important than the first, although the two frequently overlap without putting in much effort.
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Old 2014-03-05, 18:03   Link #4251
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
There's two main things that decide the potency of an ability.

1) Catering to a person's aura nature
2) Catering to a person, period

I'd argue that the second one is more important than the first, although the two frequently overlap without putting in much effort.
I would say they always overlap. Who would have an aura that doesn't suit them?
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Old 2014-03-06, 15:19   Link #4252
Dengar
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An ability that works for a person doesn't necessarily have to be an ability that works for a person's aura nature.

Same for the reverse.
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Old 2014-03-09, 19:56   Link #4253
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Finally caught up. These last few episodes OMG!

I've read threw the last 50-60 pages or so, so I don't really have a whole lot to say that hasn't been brought out already, just that waiting for the weekly episodes now is going to be a killer.
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Old 2014-03-11, 16:04   Link #4254
Student no.0
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+1 For Morel and Knuckle duo. Does this mean KNov is back in the game?! Heck yeah! Man, oh man. Looking at how much Pouf despises Komugi, things don't seem to good for Pitou now.
Spoiler for 121 preview:
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Old 2014-03-11, 17:22   Link #4255
MCAL
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Everything about Pouf is exaggerated to the max, right down to his nen abilities. I guess I can see where people would hate him, but I like how Togashi makes such colorful characters.

This episode once again proves why battles in HxH are the best in the genre. Strategy upon strategy upon strategy. And it all makes logical sense. And as usual, the psychology behind the fights is top rate. Wonder what it would be like if Togashi decided to become a psychologist.
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Old 2014-03-11, 23:12   Link #4256
HandofFate
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geez, not sure what the point of that girl that joined with Bifeef is. She received so much screentime, maybe because Togashi felt we needed a bubbly genki girl in contrast with all the tension everyone else is having.
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Old 2014-03-12, 03:47   Link #4257
revive4563
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Originally Posted by MCAL View Post
This episode once again proves why battles in HxH are the best in the genre. Strategy upon strategy upon strategy. And it all makes logical sense. And as usual, the psychology behind the fights is top rate. Wonder what it would be like if Togashi decided to become a psychologist.
I think Togashi learnt how to structure battle story from Araki of Jojo. I don't think YuYu Hakusyo's story was the type of logic and application unlike this and Jojo.
Well, Togashi is one of the best battle story author, regardless who is the progenitor.

Last edited by revive4563; 2014-03-12 at 03:58.
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Old 2014-03-12, 11:31   Link #4258
SHINOBI-03
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-EPISODE 120-
Spoiler for part 1:

-------------
Spoiler for part 2:
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Old 2014-03-12, 11:34   Link #4259
Gan_HOPE326
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Originally Posted by revive4563 View Post
I think Togashi learnt how to structure battle story from Araki of Jojo.
I've only read/seen up until Battle Tendency plus a bit of Stardust Crusaders, but I'd say the Jojo logic is quite different. While it HAS a "more brains than brawns" approach, I mean... Jojo's plain ridiculous. Which is what makes it so entertaining . HXH is much more well-thought out and "realistic" within the boundary of its own set of rules. And I'd argue YYH already harboured some potential for this, for example when it defined the concept of "territories" in the Dark Chapter Arc. Though yeah, those were also very similar to the idea of "Stands" in a way.
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Old 2014-03-12, 12:19   Link #4260
Goty
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I've only read/seen up until Battle Tendency plus a bit of Stardust Crusaders
That explains why you're saying that. Jojo's tactics and habilities got more and more intricate every arc. You're talking about stuff done in the 80's, probably assuming the powers were always used the same way. Part III is absurdly complex and inventive already, and each arc follows its set of rules perhaps closer than HxH does..

Sure it is (intentionally) flashy, but that doesn't mask how well-thought the battles are.
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