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Old 2012-02-16, 20:35   Link #841
kitten320
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AvianWing View Post
So my question to you is... why are you still here?

Gon isn't my favorite character in the show, but he's still okay in my book. I stuck around in the original because I wanted to see Kurapica's story unfold, and was glad that I did. If you're getting mad about what happened, save yourself the trouble, cause the main character isn't gonna change.
Purely for Kurapica and a bit of Leorio. And story isn't that bad either. Also Hisoka became more interesting.
Gon is no fun at all.
Don't get obsession over Killua either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MisaoFan View Post
I think Kenshin is just as exceptionnal as Edward, right ?
From what show is he?

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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Really, this series can sometimes be viewed as a deconstruction of the Shonen Fighting genre.
It does... because if I were to rate it only purely on action and fighting, the show would get maximum 3...
a) There are barely any fights to begin with
b) If there are any, they end in 3 seconds. The longest I remember from old show so far was 1 episode long and it barely had any action at all. More of talking and analyzing...
c) Won't talk about it here yet, will wait until the episode airs what will take a while

Show is holding purely on a story and some characters and it's small uniqueness by using other methods to solve the problem, not fighting
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Old 2012-02-17, 03:16   Link #842
Keroko
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
From what show is he?
rurouni kenshin
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Old 2012-02-17, 06:47   Link #843
Dengar
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
It does... because if I were to rate it only purely on action and fighting, the show would get maximum 3...
a) There are barely any fights to begin with
b) If there are any, they end in 3 seconds. The longest I remember from old show so far was 1 episode long and it barely had any action at all. More of talking and analyzing...
c) Won't talk about it here yet, will wait until the episode airs what will take a while

Show is holding purely on a story and some characters and it's small uniqueness by using other methods to solve the problem, not fighting
...That's not what "deconstruction" means. Your points are valid though.
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Old 2012-02-17, 08:08   Link #844
Kirarakim
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Gon & Killua are actually my favorite HXH characters and their relationship is my favorite aspect of the series. They are very different, yet the same in some ways.

Hisoka of course is a great antagonist but I never favor antagonists (unless I really hate the main characters)
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Old 2012-02-18, 16:30   Link #845
kitten320
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
...That's not what "deconstruction" means. Your points are valid though.
Really? My bad then.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirarakim View Post
Gon & Killua are actually my favorite HXH characters and their relationship is my favorite aspect of the series. They are very different, yet the same in some ways.

Hisoka of course is a great antagonist but I never favor antagonists (unless I really hate the main characters)
I like a lot of villains though if they were real people, I would most likely hate their guts
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Old 2012-02-18, 19:54   Link #846
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Originally Posted by kitten320 View Post
Don't believe me? I bet that just in few days/weeks he will kick Hisokas ass even though he doesn't even stand close to Killua's and Hanzo's level now.
And let's face it, if Gon was not a main hero, Hanzo would 98% trashed him.

If Gon wasn't main hero, Hisoka would have killed him in the forest and maybe even way before that.

If Gon wasn't a main hero, judges would not favor him so much.

If Gon wasn't the main hero, he wouldn't be liked by Hisoka so much.

This list can really go on. And not just for Gon but for any main hero out there in any show. The only real exception is Edward Elric and drama heroes, not action heroes.

If Gon will ever be in a situation where chances for survival are 0.000001%, he will survive.

That's how it always worked, works and will continue to work with any main hero/heroine. And that's why I never give a damn about them, they don't deserve even a penny of my worry because everything will end well for them in the end.

Though drama, mystery and horror genres are different.
This is what annoys me, especially about episode 19, the VA for Gon is frankly not doing a good job showing why Gon is the main character. The music as well doesn't convey the atmosphere it's supposed to. The original anime did this scene the way it was suppose to, and gave you an understanding why Gon is the main character.

And just to point out, Gon is the main hero, and he got trashed by Hanzo, but as you can tell when the Chairman was talking about overall impression, that's the quality that makes Gon the main hero. Not his fighting ability, intelligence, or any other quality other than that he has a way about him, that as Kurapica was explaining, pulls people into his pace. It's the charisma to draw people out. This is why Hisoka let's him live, not because he's the main protagonist of the show, but because he sees these exquisite qualities in him, that would be wasted to kill him now, and better served to kill him later. It's the exact same reason the Judges like him, is because he makes this impression on you that just makes you want to like him.

Your criticism is flawed because you fail to understand why Gon makes it through as he does. It's either a flaw in the show for not being able to portray why Gon is so likeable, or it's in you for choosing to not like him. Personally tho, yes, in this remake, I don't find Gon as likeable as the original anime. I just simply don't like the way this VA does the lines, the original manga was also better at portraying why Gon is so charismatic even tho the lines are nearly identical.

Everything you've been shown up to now, from how he stopped Kurapica and Leorio from fighting on the boat. How when coming across the Maju (I think? the talking beasts, can't remember what they were called), he showed inexplicable qualities, which stopped them from fighting. In the 3rd exam he shows his capabilities to think outside the box, and how he makes recreates the exam on his terms. In the 4th exam you're shown his potential as a character, in a non-conventional sense, but are shown how naive he still is in this world.

You are thought patterns almost coincide with Killua, in that you don't understand why Gon is rated so highly, and it's not just because he's the main character. It's the charm, which unfortunately is a little lost, especially in this episode.

But seriously you just saying that Hanzo would trash Gon 98% of the time if Gon wasn't the main character means you fail to realize that Hanzo did in fact, trash Gon, 100%, in 100 rematches, Gon would lose, 100 times. Claiming he did anything but lose is simply wrong. But how he passed the exam, is because of something entirely different. And that is the charm of HxH, it takes situations, and turns them upside their head. If this was any generic Shonen, Gon would release his potential, and somehow beat Hanzo, despite the fact that 99% of the time he would lose, and somehow summoned up the power to beat him. In HxH that isn't what happened, he got completely crushed, tried to fight back, still gets crushed, but manages to clear the situation in another manner.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
Really, this series can sometimes be viewed as a deconstruction of the Shonen Fighting genre.
It isn't that this series can sometimes be viewed as a deconstruction of Shonen series, but it is 100% a deconstruction of a Shonen series. No one could watch/read this series, and not think that this was the case is all I'm saying, so I had a problem with you saying sometimes, because that's what it is. That's the charm of the series. It gives you typical shonen situations, and decides to go in a completely opposite direction of how a typical shonen series would handle it. I remember reading a great review a long while back, showing how each arc of the manga can be easily viewed as your typical shonen situation handled in an atypical manner.

The hunter exam is a very prime example. The first exam, where he runs into trouble with Hisoka, they don't beat down on Hisoka with some magic rush of power, quite the opposite, they get crushed. The third exam is just the start of showing how unlike any series it is. They broke through the wall to make an out of the box thought, which is a reflection on how the anime will go through situations through out of the box thinking.

The fourth exam is another case of, an unusual situation, and even tho he succeeds in taking Hisoka's badge, seconds later, he gets caught and we're shown how naive Gon can be to not even notice that someone could be tailing him. In any other shonen, that scene does not happen, the main protagonist gets what he wants, and is able to do it successfully. Gon failed, and ended up wanting to help his teammates because of that frustration. This is especially important because you see main heroes pulling others along, but Gon was defeated and frustrated, and wanted to feel useful, which in turn ended up pulling his teammates along.

This fifth exam is another unusual approach, because it's a single loser for the entire tournament. And like Killua was saying, the situation hasn't changed, Gon's arm didn't magically reattach, and yet it felt like he was winning, despite being in complete disadvantage. Gon didn't summon up plot-power, but because of the way the fight was designed, drew everyone into his pace, and made it feel like he'd win, simply because of his personality. No secret power ups or anything.

I love this series because of how it deconstructs typical shonen plots, and spins them around. But I feel like, even if I don't like some of the VAs, if they at least changed some of the music, it would make me enjoy this anime a lot more than the original. Because when Hanzo is beating down on Gon, it isn't a dark music, it's still pretty upbeat, which completely ruins the mood. It doesn't feel tense or dramatic, so the tension feels completely forced by the characters. And when Gon starts cheering up, that music is terrible. Like a marching band, or something, it is so out of place. And don't even get me started on Hisoka's theme song...

Honestly for those who don't like the way this episode was handled. Watch episode 28 of the original HxH anime. The atmosphere is completely different, and I feel like you'd understand how Gon passes, and why this series is so amazing. I highly recommend watching episode 28 and seeing how this scene is really suppose to be done.
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Old 2012-02-19, 04:11   Link #847
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Spoiler for Ep20:
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Old 2012-02-19, 05:16   Link #848
Dengar
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Originally Posted by Tsukou View Post
Deconstruction Talk
I guess you're right about that. The whole series is indeed a deconstruction of the shonen fighting genre.

Although I have to add, just to avoid confusion. A Deconstruction is when you take a particular trope, play it straight, and just keep the trope going without any hindrances until you see the actual end result.

A very global example. Say you have a world where people can develop powers that are near-supernatural with enough training. On one hand, you get people like Hisoka, who is a complete psychopath, who also happens to have had enough training (and potential) to be a seriously dangerous character, due to the fact that he cannot be easily stopped. On the other hand, you have Killua, who, due to the fact that in this world, training from hell is almost literally training from hell, is indeed a quite capable fighter, but at the same time has become mentally unstable due to both the training and the pressure from the rest of his family.

The Zoldyke family themselves are a deconstruction of, well, I guess, a family of badasses.

Gon would be mostly a deconstruction of the Determinator. A character that doesn't give up no matter the circumstances. While it did, in fact, allow him to pass the fifth round, he was severely injured in the process, and the only reason he won is because of the peculiar setup of the exam itself, and he is not even satisfied with is "win".

Last edited by Dengar; 2012-02-19 at 05:31.
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Old 2012-02-19, 05:41   Link #849
zeniselv
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you could also add that gon isnt the super moralistic emmisary of justice, just look how he doesnt get into imppsible situations for not let a stranger be killed, and it kinda fits with the fact hes a 12 Years old.
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Old 2012-02-19, 06:29   Link #850
Dengar
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Gon is in no way the messiah. No character introduced up to this point has been one.
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Old 2012-02-19, 06:35   Link #851
FateAnomaly
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Leorio lucked out. He would probably be the one that failed if Killua didn't go crazy.
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Old 2012-02-19, 08:12   Link #852
Dengar
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He could've beaten the old guy.
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Old 2012-02-19, 08:12   Link #853
ookamigirl
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Very interesting episode.
Hisoka was really impressive. Wonder what he whispered.
Killua vs his brother. Poor kid with a family like that.. no wonder he snapped.
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Old 2012-02-19, 10:32   Link #854
Toto y Moi
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Originally Posted by Dengar View Post
I guess you're right about that. The whole series is indeed a deconstruction of the shonen fighting genre.

Although I have to add, just to avoid confusion. A Deconstruction is when you take a particular trope, play it straight, and just keep the trope going without any hindrances until you see the actual end result.

A very global example. Say you have a world where people can develop powers that are near-supernatural with enough training. On one hand, you get people like Hisoka, who is a complete psychopath, who also happens to have had enough training (and potential) to be a seriously dangerous character, due to the fact that he cannot be easily stopped. On the other hand, you have Killua, who, due to the fact that in this world, training from hell is almost literally training from hell, is indeed a quite capable fighter, but at the same time has become mentally unstable due to both the training and the pressure from the rest of his family.

The Zoldyke family themselves are a deconstruction of, well, I guess, a family of badasses.

Gon would be mostly a deconstruction of the Determinator. A character that doesn't give up no matter the circumstances. While it did, in fact, allow him to pass the fifth round, he was severely injured in the process, and the only reason he won is because of the peculiar setup of the exam itself, and he is not even satisfied with is "win".
Just commenting on this to say that everything this person says is correct. You really understand the series.

Are any of you dissatisfied with the Final Phase? It was supposed to be this cool tournament, but it doesn't happen... In fact, Gon wakes up after everything is over! And when Satotz covers all the fights, he glosses over everybody's but Killua's! That's kind of annoying isn't it? But think about why he did so. If Togashi wanted to show a fight, he would have done so in the manga. But he chooses not to. This is supposed to be the Final Phase--the last step in Gon's journey to become a Hunter. So why is it such a letdown? Gon's match is moreso torture than it is a fight. And then he wakes up after everything is over? That sounds like we missed the best part, right? This is exactly what Togashi wants you to think. Stay tuned.
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Old 2012-02-19, 11:52   Link #855
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Originally Posted by Toto y Moi View Post
Are any of you dissatisfied with the Final Phase? It was supposed to be this cool tournament, but it doesn't happen... In fact, Gon wakes up after everything is over! And when Satotz covers all the fights, he glosses over everybody's but Killua's! That's kind of annoying isn't it? But think about why he did so. If Togashi wanted to show a fight, he would have done so in the manga. But he chooses not to. This is supposed to be the Final Phase--the last step in Gon's journey to become a Hunter. So why is it such a letdown? Gon's match is moreso torture than it is a fight. And then he wakes up after everything is over? That sounds like we missed the best part, right? This is exactly what Togashi wants you to think. Stay tuned.
It kind of reminded me of the end of the Makai tournament in Yu Yu Hakusho, where we didn't even get to see the last matches. Togashi really likes screwing with readers' expectations.
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Old 2012-02-19, 13:27   Link #856
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It kind of reminded me of the end of the Makai tournament in Yu Yu Hakusho, where we didn't even get to see the last matches. Togashi really likes screwing with readers' expectations.
I liked the ep very much but did note the sense of anticlimax originally... But then, as has been stated, you think about the author and realize he never likes to do things in an obvious "shounen" way so why should this arc end any differently?

In some ways, watching what Illumi did to "Kil" was even more brutal than watching what Hanzo did to Gon. The latter was physical torture, but this was a total emotional dissection.
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Old 2012-02-19, 15:19   Link #857
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Wow what is with that outcome for the tournament! Never would have thought Gitarucker was Killua's brother, that was brutal for Killua. Leorio lucked out again though. Really wonder what Hisoka told Kurapika and the other guy. Typical Gon when straight to the source of the problem. If they fight though i see no way Gon wins, unless they all gang up on Illumi. Wonder if they'll go after Killua.
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Old 2012-02-19, 15:29   Link #858
Guardian Enzo
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Sadly, thanks to MAL I knew who Gittrackur was.
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Old 2012-02-19, 15:34   Link #859
Kirarakim
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The funny thing is I read the manga (up to a point) and I didn't even remember. I recalled that Killua lost but not that it was his brother who made him lose.

I really feel like in many ways I am experiencing the story for the first time.

And seriously Killua saying he wants to be friend's with Gon, sweet and heartbreaking at the same time.
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Old 2012-02-19, 15:53   Link #860
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Sadly, thanks to MAL I knew who Gittrackur was.
MAL is horrible for spoilers. People on there seriously need to learn what spoiler tags are.
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